Looking to plant some Willow

TomOnBoard

I'm looking to plant some willow this year.

Does anyone have a stand that needs pruning/coppicing that I could rob (;-)) some lengths from?

Thanks in advance..

Red Sheds

There seems to be plenty of it growing wild in bogs if that is the type you are after. I am sure there should be no bother in clipping a bit of that for yourself.

TomOnBoard

It's the basket willow type I'm looking for. Is that the same as what's growing wild in bogs?

Red Sheds

I dont know to be honest if it is Tom, we call them Sallys sometimes. It grow fast and straight if managed and is very flexible. I would say 2 year old slips could well be made into baskets. Sorry I dont know much more.

El Kabong!

How many rods do you need and where are you located?

TomOnBoard

Im in Athlone. I was hoping to get around 40-50 metres or so.

El Kabong!

Oh, that's a bit far from me (North Dublin).
If you are looking for already grown/ready to use rods in that quantity then it's probably best to just find a few growing locally in the hedegrows and cut 3 or so branches from each?

Genghis Cant

I'm a little bit uneasy about advising that these willow rods are growing wild in bogs and hedgerows. I'm sure they are, but I'm also sure that in many cases they belong to someone.

I'd be sure to ask permission before I liberated any for my own use.
Fwiw, I have seen them advertised on DD from time to time!

gk5000

TomOnBoard wrote: »

It's the basket willow type I'm looking for. Is that the same as what's growing wild in bogs?

Cheks this out - there are lots of different varieties and colours for basket weaving.
http://www.futureforests.net/br_willow.htm

TomOnBoard

gk5000 wrote: »

Cheks this out - there are lots of different varieties and colours for basket weaving.
http://www.futureforests.net/br_willow.htm

I note the commercial offerings that are out there. However, while I regularly spend significant amounts on nursery products, I'm cheapskating this particular project- hence my original post.

I'm currently on a waste not, want not drive- I reckon people should give away stuff/produce that they don't want rather than letting it go to waste. My willow request was set in that context- many people will be pruning / coppicing between now and next Spring in order to promote better/tighter growth in their standing stock, and unless they intend to re- plant or use these cuttings, why let them go to waste?

Genghis Cant

What length does each rod need to be for planting?

TomOnBoard

Genghis Cant wrote: »

What length does each rod need to be for planting?

Willow will take root from a rod a small as 6-10 inches in well prepared and well managed (particularly from a weed-management perspective) ground.

I would be looking at planting 18-30 inch lengths as, at this stage in my life I'm regularly unable to carry out plans due to a fecked- up spine, so would need to factor in the fact that weeds could easily and regularly get on top of me. A younger person with the ability to manage the ground could easily get 3 plantable slips out of each metre of rod.

Genghis Cant

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Willow will take root from a rod a small as 6-10 inches in well prepared and well managed (particularly from a weed-management perspective) ground.

I would be looking at planting 18-30 inch lengths as, at this stage in my life I'm regularly unable to carry out plans due to a fecked- up spine, so would need to factor in the fact that weeds could easily and regularly get on top of me. A younger person with the ability to manage the ground could easily get 3 plantable slips out of each metre of rod.

Good stuff. I've seen willow trees grow along the canal where anglers stick a Y shaped branch to hold a fishing rod!
I have a small amount here that grew up from a stump I cut in the spring. Pity I haven't more of them, I'll get an accurate count on them tomorrow and see what I have.

gk5000

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I note the commercial offerings that are out there. However, while I regularly spend significant amounts on nursery products, I'm cheapskating this particular project- hence my original post.

I'm currently on a waste not, want not drive- I reckon people should give away stuff/produce that they don't want rather than letting it go to waste. My willow request was set in that context- many people will be pruning / coppicing between now and next Spring in order to promote better/tighter growth in their standing stock, and unless they intend to re- plant or use these cuttings, why let them go to waste?

Not necessarily suggesting you buy there, just so you know what you want - which does NOT seem to be the bog/wild varieties if you want to do the baskets.

I bought a 25x basket package from them which was 6 varieties - as I could not easily get it elsewhere, but I'm not in your vicinity.

TomOnBoard

gk5000 wrote: »

Not necessarily suggesting you buy there, just so you know what you want - which does NOT seem to be the bog/wild varieties if you want to do the baskets.

I bought a 25x basket package from them which was 6 varieties - as I could not easily get it elsewhere, but I'm not in your vicinity.

Its not that I want to do baskets.. My main intention is to plant some willow that is supple and of "basket- making" quality so that I can do some living willow sculptures and things like willow tunnels on a half- acre lawn.

I have also recently built a 20 metre long x 3 metre wide Hugelkultur bed for long term organic, non- watering, no- dig vegetable gardening and need to have access to willow or hazel to make raised bed walls that will ultimately be as high as 5 feet off the ground.

Th intention is that I need the willow to be able to sculpt the landscape using natural products...

Genghis Cant

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I have a small amount here that grew up from a stump I cut in the spring. Pity I haven't more of them, I'll get an accurate count on them tomorrow and see what I have.

I cut 40 of them from 18" to 2'6" if they're any good to you you're welcome to them.
Diameter from 1/4" to 1/2".

TomOnBoard

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I cut 40 of them from 18" to 2'6" if they're any good to you you're welcome to them.
Diameter from 1/4" to 1/2".

They would make a brilliant start, thank you so much.

I see you're in Northern Biffoland. I'll PM you.

Thanks again..

gk5000

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Its not that I want to do baskets.. My main intention is to plant some willow that is supple and of "basket- making" quality so that I can do some living willow sculptures and things like willow tunnels on a half- acre lawn.

I have also recently built a 20 metre long x 3 metre wide Hugelkultur bed for long term organic, non- watering, no- dig vegetable gardening and need to have access to willow or hazel to make raised bed walls that will ultimately be as high as 5 feet off the ground.

Th intention is that I need the willow to be able to sculpt the landscape using natural products...

Curious about the Hugelkultur : just googled it - thought it was just soil over logs - how does the willow fit in to that. If possible upload some photos or keep us informed how it goes.

Never wrestle with pigs

Cool idea. Put up sum pics of it when it when it comes together for you.

TomOnBoard

I had a lot of old trunk/roots of Leylandii, Poplar and other stuff piled up after a clear-up of 30-yearold growth beside my lawn. I came across the Hugelkultur concept on the web, and decided to try and create a bed that would eliminate the problem of all the trunks/roots etc.

So I got my buddy in with his 8-ton Hitachi digger, and we dug a trench approx 3 metres wide, 1.5 metres deep (into the gravel below the soil) and 30 metres long. The soil was put to one side while the gravel was trucked next door into a woodland I planted 20 years ago to make roadways in the future. All the stumps etc were then buried in the trench, with some soil and a lot of smaller stuff on top. This resulted in a mound of wood of varying sizes/thicknesses that, before tracking by the digger would have been perhaps 3-4 metres tall (uncompressed). After tracking, with layers of soil and smaller stuff, we ended up with a uniform height of well- compressed material of approx 750mm, including the original soil that was put back.

That soil depth was in the order of 150mm on top of the bed. I sowed an Autumn/Winter green manure/ground cover seed mix to introduce nitrogen to the bed to obviate the nitrogen loss that happens as a result of the underlying wood being broken down. This ‘Landsberger Winter Mix’ will grow to a height, and some of its constituents will be killed by frost to add nitrogen that will boost other parts. I will eventually cover the bed (incl the green manure) before planting it in the spring.

The decomposition within the bed will add a significant amount of heat that will be used to make earlier sowings than could be made in normal soil. In addition, after the second year, the rotting wood will hold far more moisture than regular soil, so that watering ought not be needed except in months of severe drought. The rotting wood will add nutrient to the bed so that the Phosphorous, Potassium and trace element needs are catered for. Nitrogen will need to be added for the initial 2-4 years until the rotting wood (a process that is a net consumer of N) begins to give its N back.

The Hugelkultur bed is good for 10-15 years using softwoods, and 20 years+ using hardwoods. Excess acidity does need to be controlled where piney softwoods are used, such as in my case.

I have photos on a camera, and will upload them when I can get a chance to d/l them. In the meantime, Google is your friend...

TomOnBoard

gk5000 wrote: »

Curious about the Hugelkultur : just googled it - thought it was just soil over logs - how does the willow fit in to that.

The willow is my own take on a method to deal with keeping soil/growing medium along the sides of the Hugelkultur bed as well as controlling weeds. I intend to build the bed up to a height of perhaps 1.5 metres above ground level, so that it will become a raised bed (to deal with my phucked-up back) that will accommodate plantings on top and up both sides.

The Willow will be used to create structure along the sides and avoid landslides, cave- outs etc.

gk5000

Definitely worth a few photos and an ongoing post to see how it works out - what you can plant - comparison with regular beds etc.

pedigree 6

TomOnBoard wrote: »

The willow is my own take on a method to deal with keeping soil/growing medium along the sides of the Hugelkultur bed as well as controlling weeds. I intend to build the bed up to a height of perhaps 1.5 metres above ground level, so that it will become a raised bed (to deal with my phucked-up back) that will accommodate plantings on top and up both sides.

The Willow will be used to create structure along the sides and avoid landslides, cave- outs etc.

There's a problem here Tom.
You want to use the bed for vegetables hopefully. That's the idea. Yes??

You want to use willow as a living wall for the raised bed. Anywhere that willow touches soil it roots. That's where you stick it in the ground but it will also be on the sides holding in the soil. I fear if you do this the whole bed will be overcome with willow roots and leave nothing for your planned plantings. Maybe you could keep digging out the roots every year but I think you are now defeating the purpose of the bed which is not to be turning over the bed completely every year and letting the inside of the bed work away.

I think you would be better using something solid for the walls or maybe don't use walls at all just a bank and plant what ever your planting all over it.

If you were to use something solid for the walls maybe stokboard with stakes might do?? Its not free but it will last.

Anyway just my thoughts.;)

TomOnBoard

pedigree 6 wrote: »

There's a problem here Tom.
You want to use the bed for vegetables hopefully. That's the idea. Yes??

You want to use willow as a living wall for the raised bed

Yes, the bed will be used for vegetables.

I don't intend to use living willow- I intend to make woven sides from harvested canes that will be left to 'die', building up a kind of wattle structure along the sides. I'm assuming that the will no longer be viable from a growth perspective once it has Been harvested properly. If I'm wrong about that, then clearly I will have to consider alternatives.

The whole thing is a bit of an experiment really, born out of the need to get rid of large stumps and other woody waste that I didn't want to have to burn.

TomOnBoard

Genghis Cant wrote: »

I cut 40 of them from 18" to 2'6" if they're any good to you you're welcome to them.
Diameter from 1/4" to 1/2".

A big shout out and thanks to GC for all the willow he put together for me over the Winter. very grateful..

Genghis Cant

TomOnBoard wrote: »

A big shout out and thanks to GC for all the willow he put together for me over the Winter. very grateful..

You're more than welcome. Sometimes Genghis Can :-)