Sending child to a gaelscoil when neither parent is strong in the language

stickman22

Hi, my dh & I were pretty set on where we were sending our dds for school however now we have bought a house directly across the road from a gaelscoil which has a fantastic reputation, their names have been down for a year approx & it looks likely that they will get places.
However we have some reservations:
-Like most parents we want the very best for our kids education & don't want to a wrong decision... Neither dh or I are strong Irish speakers, we havn't spoken as gaeilge since our LC & even then we weren't in any way competent, I would be very worried about helping with homework...
-We want to be very involved in the dcs education but feel we won't be as much of a support with the language barrier.
-Do Gaelscoils give kids an advantage?
-They would be going to an english speaking secondary school
-The main pros are that the gaelscoil is across the road & socially it would be great for the girls & the other pro is that DH & I will be very actively involved in their education (even with the language barrier!)
The other national school we are thinking of sending them is 10 mins away, is single sex & also very good.
Maybe some secondary teachers might weigh in here also & let me know if their is a difference in pupils who have attended an english or Irish speaking NS, thanks

GalwayGrrrrrl

I am from England, have zero Irish language but have managed to cope with my kids going to gaelscoil. My husband is fluent but is never at home during homework hours. My kids have managed very well and get good marks. The hardest bit was doing spellings/litrui as my pronounciaton was poor but we managed it by the child recording the word on my phone then playing it back to write the spelling. The rest of homework is overseeing them doing it, rather than having to understand every word. The only thing I can't be involved on is board of management meetings as these are in Irish.
If you grew up in Ireland you will have lots more Irish than some parents and will cope very well.

stickman22

Thanks so much X factor, that is very interesting. Can I ask if you feel intimidated by some of the parents in the school who are fluent? Do you think your kids english is at a good level also? Tia

byhookorbycrook

I teach in a Gaelscoil. Most of the parents have very little Irish, but do make an effort to say "Dia duit" or "Slan" ,Being bilingual at an early age had been proven to be very beneficial to the child and many many international studies confirm this.They are not only open to learning a third or 4th language but there are other cognitive advantages as well.

Homework should not be an issue, as most Gaelscoileanna are aware of limited Irish at home and try to ensure that the child knows what has to be done. If , for any reason there is a difficulty at home, your child will be able to translate for you.
We are working with senior infants at present in our school and they understand most of what is said in Irish already and most can respond in a meaningful way even at that age.

stickman22

Thanks so much byhookorbycrook, yes we would make every effort to communicate with everyone with our limited focal as gaeilge. This particular gaelscoil has an excellent reputation & I guess what we want for dds(like every parent) is to offer them the very best education we can. That is very interesting regarding acquiring additional languages, they will both be gone 5 starting too which will probably be a good thing too if we go with the Irish school.
I figure their english won't suffer as we have often heard, we read an awful lot to them at home & vist the library 2/3 times a week & this will continue one they start school..

Gatling

We've 2 girls in Gael scoils one on junior infants and 2nd class,my wife has no Irish And I'm a learning through a weekly class at the school ,
So I wouldn't be worried about homework just yet doesn't start getting difficult till 2nd or 3rd class by that stage your little one will be fairly proficient in spoken and written Irish ,

Some Gael scoils offer classes for parents and some local libraries also do weekly courses ,

Definitely something not to fear or worry about

GalwayGrrrrrl

stickman22 wrote: »

Thanks so much X factor, that is very interesting. Can I ask if you feel intimidated by some of the parents in the school who are fluent? Do you think your kids english is at a good level also? Tia

Only a handful of the parents are true fluent speakers and even then they will speak English to me if I don't understand them. Overall it's been a very positive experience. I have taken a few classes in Irish run by our school - I find it a very hard language to pick up (despite having been good at French and German in my youth) but I can recognise lots of words if written- my pronounciation is awful!
We are a household of book lovers and read lots of English. Oils at home so my children are confident in English reading too.

evolving_doors

Are there any follow up reports on how it transfers over to English speaking secondary schools?

ted1

Our two kids go to GaelScoils and neither me our the misses have good Irish. Just the basic stuff. Our two kids are flying along and love speaking the language, there's a few kids whose parents speak Irish the whole time and they enjoy play dates in their houses and our Irish is coming along as a result.

Our plan is to send the kids to an Irish secondary school as the one close to us constantly ranks hi on the league tables and more importantly is free, and around us there are actually Few good non fee Paying secondary schools.

1 kid left our room oldest daughters class in senior infants as she had dyslexia and wa struggling so the parents moved her to s English language school.

I wouldn't hesitate in recommending sending a kid to an Irish language school even if you don't speak the lingo yourself

byhookorbycrook

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Are there any follow up reports on how it transfers over to English speaking secondary schools?

Do you mean how Irish transfers, Gebgbegb?

evolving_doors

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Do you mean how Irish transfers, Gebgbegb?

Well just how those students do overall. Maybe it can't be quantified.

GalwayGrrrrrl

Gebgbegb wrote: »

Well just how those students do overall. Maybe it can't be quantified.

I think there are a lot of different factors involved so it would be hard to interpret any results. For example, our gaelscoil has mainly children whose parents have professional jobs, good housing, English or Irish first language etc, whereas the English speaking school a few yards down the road has a huge mix of students, lots of parents unemployed, lots of different nationalities (with English not as first language). To compare exam results from those two groups isn't fair as one group has an advantage gaelscoil or not. (I'm just saying on AVERAGE, as I know I'm making huge generalisations here).

ted1

Regular top school in Dublin , and 4th in the country

http://www.joe.ie/news/the-top-25-schools-in-the-country-have-been-revealed/510116

kieran.

We have 3 kids at Irish schools and my wife and I would have a very limited grasp of the language. We have ,one pre school, one primary and one secondary. As been said before there is strong advantages your child gets in in a gael scoil environment, but the single biggest one I have in encountered is the enthusiasm every teacher has for the language and that gets poured into the kids. I would often meet groups of teachers out over the weekend and even then they'll be speaking in Irish. My advice would be to go for the school across the road and if possible send your little one to the preschool.

Grawns

My Irish is OK my daughters Irish is fluent but I couldn't help her understand maths concepts in Irish. She is in rang a dó now and I did buy the English translation of the maths book. . It has been a huge help and I should have done it in rang a haon. The rest of the homework is fine. I still 100% recommend gaelscoils. Her school is go h'iontach!

Tigerandahalf

Gaeilscoileanna have become very trendy among parents who want the best for their kids.

However be careful in choosing. You need to consider the possibility of one of your children having learning needs or special needs. Many parents have ended up switching their kids back to English speaking primary schools as Gaelscoileanna are not as well able to meet the needs of the child.

Many Gaelscoileanna have small premises with various prefabs scattered amongst the grounds. Facilties like spacious playgrounds, PE halls and playing pitches can be minimal unless they have a new building.

Staff in Gaelscoileanna may be overly academic and into the Irish Arts rather than sports or other activities. How well will they relate to your own child and how well will your child fit into that environment?

Also remember that class sizes may be large. Disadvantaged schools often have smaller class sizes and the teacher can give more time to kids. Plus there is a greater diversity of kids. Kids learn from each other. The Irish kids learn about the Polish kid's customs and of the Indian kid's foods etc.

An advantage of the Gaelscoileanna is that they are co-ed which is the way all primary schools should be. It also helps with the school runs.

Your child should gain a great grasp of the language which may open up various employment opportunities down the road.

Overall though research the school. Check their school inspection reports online but more importantly talk to other parents. They will have a bank of information on various issues.

However the best clue is to see whether the teachers have their own kids in the school or not.

snickerpuss

I'm not sure that any of my teachers were militant Gaeilgeoirs like the above post suggests. I went to a Gaelscoil but my parents didn't speak the language. It was never a problem and they picked up a decent bit as I went through the school. I loved it and can't remember not knowing Irish. Went to an English speaking secondary and then went on to do Irish in college.

An Bradán Feasa

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

You need to consider the possibility of one of your children having learning needs or special needs. Many parents have ended up switching their kids back to English speaking primary schools as Gaelscoileanna are not as well able to meet the needs of the child.

Where did you get this idea from? Gaelscoileanna have access to the exact same resources from the DES as English-medium schools have - Learning Support Teachers, Resource Teachers and Special Needs Assistants.

Here's a quote taken from the Gaelscoileanna.ie website:

"Is Irish-medium education suitable for children/pupils with special needs?

Naíonraí and Irish-medium schools cater for children/pupils with special needs just as preschools and schools teaching through the medium of English do. All evidence shows that children/pupils with special needs do just as well in an Irish-medium setting as they do in the English-medium system. Total early immersion is recognised as the most successful model for children/pupils with special needs."

Source: http://www.gaelscoileanna.ie/en/ceisteanna-coitianta/

The same website also provides a link to this website which clarifies the matter: http://www.hanen.org/Helpful-Info/Articles/Can-children-with-language-impairments-learn-two-l.aspx

An Bradán Feasa

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

However the best clue is to see whether the teachers have their own kids in the school or not.

No, it's not. Many teachers prefer not to have their own children attend the schools where they work - Gaelscoil or English-medium - as this is not something that many would be comfortable with for a variety of professional reasons.

byhookorbycrook

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Gaeilscoileanna have become very trendy among parents who want the best for their kids.

However be careful in choosing. You need to consider the possibility of one of your children having learning needs or special needs. Many parents have ended up switching their kids back to English speaking primary schools as Gaelscoileanna are not as well able to meet the needs of the child.

Many Gaelscoileanna have small premises with various prefabs scattered amongst the grounds. Facilties like spacious playgrounds, PE halls and playing pitches can be minimal unless they have a new building.

Staff in Gaelscoileanna may be overly academic and into the Irish Arts rather than sports or other activities. How well will they relate to your own child and how well will your child fit into that environment?

Also remember that class sizes may be large. Disadvantaged schools often have smaller class sizes and the teacher can give more time to kids. Plus there is a greater diversity of kids. Kids learn from each other. The Irish kids learn about the Polish kid's customs and of the Indian kid's foods etc.

An advantage of the Gaelscoileanna is that they are co-ed which is the way all primary schools should be. It also helps with the school runs.

Your child should gain a great grasp of the language which may open up various employment opportunities down the road.

Overall though research the school. Check their school inspection reports online but more importantly talk to other parents. They will have a bank of information on various issues.

However the best clue is to see whether the teachers have their own kids in the school or not.

Frankly, your post is almost hilarious, it's so full of inaccuracies as to be on the verge of trolling..

You speak of diversity yet think children with SEN shouldn't be in Gaelscoileanna?Exactly what do you mean by saying Gaelscoileanna don't meet the children's needs?

We have quite a number of nationalities in our school and children from all kind of backgrounds, I think you have been taken in by the David McWilliam's clichés.

As to class size, again, pretty clueless. Many Gaelscoileanna have disadvantaged status. Those that don't would have roughly the same class size as any other school.


I think you will find that many schools, whatever their language of instruction don't have "spacious playgrounds, PE halls or sports pitches" again, you generalise in a manner that seems to point to a dislike of Gaelscoileanna rather than a grasp of the real facts.

Our school has a big hall that can hold 500, an astro turf pitch, a double sided ball wall, 2 acres of a sports field , 2 basketball courts, a junior and senior yard and a separate set of playground equipment.

Stepping Stone

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Frankly, your post is almost hilarious, it's so full of inaccuracies as to be on the verge of trolling..

You speak of diversity yet think children with SEN shouldn't be in Gaelscoileanna?Exactly what do you mean by saying Gaelscoileanna don't meet the children's needs?

We have quite a number of nationalities in our school and children from all kind of backgrounds, I think you have been taken in by the David McWilliam's clichés.

As to class size, again, pretty clueless. Many Gaelscoileanna have disadvantaged status. Those that don't would have roughly the same class size as any other school.


I think you will find that many schools, whatever their language of instruction don't have "spacious playgrounds, PE halls or sports pitches" again, you generalise in a manner that seems to point to a dislike of Gaelscoileanna rather than a grasp of the real facts.

Our school has a big hall that can hold 500, an astro turf pitch, a double sided ball wall, 2 acres of a sports field , 2 basketball courts, a junior and senior yard and a separate set of playground equipment.

I suspect that the poster may have had some schools in Cork City in mind. Overly popular, terrible facilities and possibly not actually very good for children with some educational needs. I have heard some primary school teachers being quite critical of the way that children are sent to other schools in the area when they have been diagnosed with dyslexia, etc. Several parents will swear that these schools are amazing but I know of several more who were horrified after a visit.

Treat each school individually. Not all schools are the same and each needs to be assessed on individual merits.

lazygal

The gaelscoil closest to us has a good reputation, if you're really Catholic and your child has zero special educational needs. It certainly would be the least inclusive around here. Parents have taken children out of it when they realise no help is forthcoming. This is in Dublin. I'm not keen on the model generally, it's just yet another way to divide up children based on parental preference.

byhookorbycrook

Lazygal, how do you mean that "no help is forthcoming?" And "Really Catholic?"

lazygal

School has told parents their children would be better off in other schools when issues like dyslexia arise. And there is weekly mass attendance, priority for Catholics over those living in the area and very little to no provision to opt out of indoctrination. From feedback I know it would not suit our family in any way.

byhookorbycrook

That would strike me as very odd, certainly not the norm in any Gaelscoil I know, thankfully. I am an SEN teacher and we find that in a very few cases where a specific speech and language disorder is diagnosed , sometimes the SLT might suggest an English speaking school (than 3 in all my time in the school)

stickman22

Thanks for all the advice, we have decided now we definitely want to send the dc to the gaelscoil as I said we will do our very best, I'm actually looking forward to reviving my Irish! The problem now is getting a place... We are no 69 on the list, there are 2 Junior infants classes & they operate a siblings policy so the secetary said to add on about 40 to accomodate siblings.... so actually we would be around 100/110... there is 8 going to this particular gaelscoil from her preschool who are definitely taking places & we know of 5 siblings so I would say it will be a very hard year to get into... Any advice would be appreciated, the secretary & principle both said anything can happen & they do their best to accomodate if there is a there is a demand for the place..

pwurple

Have you seen their admissions policy? 
The board of management usually meets to discuss the admissions, and they will admit based on those rules.
So Siblings first, but what's after that? Your location may be an advantage for example.
On whether gaelscoil's are good or bad, I think the others are correct, each one is entirely different, so I wouldn't generalise. If you're happy with your local one, then go with it. Inspection reports and school evaluations are available online. We ruled out our local one based entirely of some parent's attitudes, rather than the school itself. When I was putting our child's name on the list, I met a parent on the way out who said " Good choice, you won't run into any foreigners in here". And over the next few weeks, I got that same kind of comment from various neighbours. I found that weird, and as they probably pass that exclusionary attitude along to their offspring, we chose a different bunch of future buddies for our children.

stickman22

Wow, that attitude is terrible, I would find that very off putting too:( I would say it doesn't represent the vast majority of Gaelscoils though... The admissions policy is siblings first followed by applications based on the date they were received

ted1

lazygal wrote: »

School has told parents their children would be better off in other schools when issues like dyslexia arise. And there is weekly mass attendance, priority for Catholics over those living in the area and very little to no provision to opt out of indoctrination. From feedback I know it would not suit our family in any way.

I don't think the above applies to all gaelscoils. But rather 1 individual one.
As for the religious element that's the same as many many English speaking schools throughout the state