Lame Ram- leave alone or treat?

Bleating Lamb

Have a mature Suffolk ram with 40 ewes.He is 'praying' the last few days,fairly lame on a front foot.Is out a week now and is still seeking out and tipping ewes(have raddle on him).....would rather not annoy the ewes putting them in....should I put him in and give him a shot of Injection or just hope for the best?

razor8

Get an injection into him, if he gets an infection he could likely become infertile IMO

Bleating Lamb

razor8 wrote: »

Get an injection into him, if he gets an infection he could likely become infertile IMO

I'm just loath to putting in ewes as they are in an awkward field where dog would be needed to get them out....don't want to unsettle possible new embryos in them with chasing.

But on other hand if ram has a temp he might go infertile.

orm0nd

have you any hurdles ? wouldn't need a very big pen for 40, perhaps in a corner or against a wall or fence,

we always pen up in the field ,especially on rented ground

razor8

Put a lead on the dog and the sheep will head for a corner

Bleating Lamb

Looked at ram this evening and he is well improved so will chance him as he is.

Hoboo

Animal welfare alive and well

J.O. Farmer

Hoboo wrote: »

Animal welfare alive and well

It is actually.
If you read the entire thread you will see animal welfare reasons about causing stress to the flock at a crucial time of the year by chasing them with a dog.
The ram is improving and so in this situation it's a judgement call on the lesser of 2 evils.The OP was looking for advice on making that judgement call as he was conflicted as to which evil to go with.

Hoboo

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

It is actually.
If you read the entire thread you will see animal welfare reasons about causing stress to the flock at a crucial time of the year by chasing them with a dog.
The ram is improving and so in this situation it's a judgement call on the lesser of 2 evils.The OP was looking for advice on making that judgement call as he was conflicted as to which evil to go with.

I read the entire thread. The OP was deciding whether to leave a praying ram on his knees after a few days!!! or have a bit of work to do by not using a dog, or even a dog on leash as suggested. Shake a bucket of feed and they'll come to you. Don't fool yourself, I've grown up surrounded by sheep and still am. Lazy farming, and cruel. Old school farming, save a few quid and bother. If it was a ewe in lamb he wouldn't wait days to help.

MayoAreMagic

Hoboo wrote: »

I read the entire thread. The OP was deciding whether to leave a praying ram on his knees after a few days!!! or have a bit of work to do by not using a dog, or even a dog on leash as suggested. Shake a bucket of feed and they'll come to you. Don't fool yourself, I've grown up surrounded by sheep and still am. Lazy farming, and cruel. Old school farming, save a few quid and bother. If it was a ewe in lamb he wouldn't wait days to help.

And if they don't come with the bucket? Not all sheep are fed meals to this extent, nor should they be.
Even without the dog, sheep being moved towards a race, or in this case, a makeshift race, could do their lambs damage - now that is cruel. That is far worse than a ram with a small bit of scald - I say a small bit because he is still showing interest and mounting animals. Someone with your lifetime of experience should know this.
Also I don't see how the guy wouldn't wait a days to help a ewe in lamb, considering a ram is worth more than both of them together...

rangler1

Texel rams are out a month here now and some are showing lameness, ewes are used to moving around paddocks so left them a few days too long on their last paddock, called them yesterday morning and used the gate for sorting until i eventually was only left with the rams in the grazed paddock......loaded them into the trailer then and footbathed.....simple
Avoid using a dog at all costs

Hoboo

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

And if they don't come with the bucket? Not all sheep are fed meals to this extent, nor should they be.
Even without the dog, sheep being moved towards a race, or in this case, a makeshift race, could do their lambs damage - now that is cruel. That is far worse than a ram with a small bit of scald - I say a small bit because he is still showing interest and mounting animals. Someone with your lifetime of experience should know this.
Also I don't see how the guy wouldn't wait a days to help a ewe in lamb, considering a ram is worth more than both of them together...

If she was carrying one. Two, on average, same price. And potential to have 10+ in a lifetime......no economic comparison.

Bleating Lamb

Hoboo wrote: »

Animal welfare alive and well

While you may be 'surrounded' by sheep I get the feeling some sheep farmer annoyed you at some stage of your well informed life;)

My query was based very much on a lesser of two evils basis....as disturbing sheep during the mating season should be avoided at all costs.....but of course you would know that anyway.

rangler1

Bleating Lamb wrote: »

While you may be 'surrounded' by sheep I get the feeling some sheep farmer annoyed you at some stage of your well informed life;)

My query was based very much on a lesser of two evils basis....as disturbing sheep during the mating season should be avoided at all costs.....but of course you would know that anyway.

Friends of mine farm kinda parklands, and their reward for letting the public walk their farm is to be regularily reported to the department for lame sheep,
Some right saddos out there

MayoAreMagic

Hoboo wrote: »

If she was carrying one. Two, on average, same price. And potential to have 10+ in a lifetime......no economic comparison.

If it is the same price then, again, your point about him running to her aid falls down - why would he be doing that if they were worth the same thing?
As for the potential over a lifetime - do I need to point out a ram will produce far more in one season alone than she will in her entire lifetime, to a man of your life experience? Something isn't adding up here...

Green farmer

Hoboo wrote: »

Animal welfare alive and well

To be honest lads come on here because they care. We want to do the best by our animals and sometimes we aren't sure how to do this, so we ask others with the same or more experience then we have to help us out.

MayoAreMagic

OP, a handy way of attracting a ram away from the flock, is park your trailer near the corner and put another ram in it.

greysides

Mod: OK lads, we've had both sides of the welfare side of the argument put out there, let's leave it at that.

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

OP, a handy way of attracting a ram away from the flock, is park your trailer near the corner and put another ram in it.

This is the kind of hint that proves useful to all and a better direction for this discussion.

jd06

We're getting a lot of lameness just above the crubeen where it meets the hair on his leg it seems to burst out up there?
Seen a lot of that type of lameness this year

rangler1

jd06 wrote: »

We're getting a lot of lameness just above the crubeen where it meets the hair on his leg it seems to burst out up there?
Seen a lot of that type of lameness this year

Probably CODD, It's very infectious, you should try to clear it before they go indoors.

Found a few pics here,

http://www.county-vets.co.uk/veterinary-services/farm-animals/sheep/lameness-sheep/

Farrell

rangler1 wrote: »

Probably CODD, It's very infectious, you should try to clear it before they go indoors.

Found a few pics here,

http://www.county-vets.co.uk/veterinary-services/farm-animals/sheep/lameness-sheep/

Rangler
See 1 Ewe & the Tex ram lamb a bit sore on their feet, what & how much would you put in a footbath?

rangler1

Farrell wrote: »

Rangler
See 1 Ewe & the Tex ram lamb a bit sore on their feet, what & how much would you put in a footbath?

1kg per 10 litres of water, stand them in it for 5mins and then on clean gravel/concrete to dry for 30 mins. If you have to stress the flock to get them in,you'd be better leaving them unless the ram is very bad.

rangler1

jd06 wrote: »

We're getting a lot of lameness just above the crubeen where it meets the hair on his leg it seems to burst out up there?
Seen a lot of that type of lameness this year

Codd is being discussed on ''The Farming Forum'''' at the moment, might be a help, always good sheep farmers on it. Bovine is a vet and seems on the ball

Here's the link
https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/codd-in-ewe-lambs.143048/

Farrell

rangler1 wrote: »

1kg per 10 litres of water, stand them in it for 5mins and then on clean gravel/concrete to dry for 30 mins. If you have to stress the flock to get them in,you'd be better leaving them unless the ram is very bad.

Get them in handy to change harness crayon.
What Do you use? Bluestone?
Would you need the bath 1/2 full?
Sorry for all the questions

rangler1

Farrell wrote: »

Get them in handy to change harness crayon.
What Do you use? Bluestone?
Would you need the bath 1/2 full?
Sorry for all the questions

I use zinc sulphate, mainly because splashes from bluestone (copper sulphate) corrodes steel gates very quick, even rots galvanise.
Three inches of water is enough, it only has to cover the feet

J.O. Farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

I use zinc sulphate, mainly because splashes from bluestone (copper sulphate) corrodes steel gates very quick, even rots galvanise.
Three inches of water is enough, it only has to cover the feet

Would you add anything else to it. I've heard somewhere that washing up liquid can help with penetrating the hoof but it could be an old wives tale.

rangler1

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Would you add anything else to it. I've heard somewhere that washing up liquid can help with penetrating the hoof but it could be an old wives tale.

I have used washing up liquid in the footbath if the lameness was bad and i'd leave them maybe ten mins standing in it, our footbath holds 35 -40 sheep so leaving them in it isn't as bad as it sounds......we'd have it going on while we'd be weighing/dosing in another part of the yard.
Washing up liquid defintely helps it penetrate and clean the feet, haven't used it in years, we do routine footbathing here so lameness never really gets bad.
It doesn't take much washing up liquid, only a squirt in your case, we'd use half a bottle of cheap stuff in a footbath that takes two bags zinc sulphate

Farrell

rangler1 wrote: »

I use zinc sulphate, mainly because splashes from bluestone (copper sulphate) corrodes steel gates very quick, even rots galvanise.
Three inches of water is enough, it only has to cover the feet

It's the JFC cow footbath, I'll build hurdles around it & leave for 5 minutes

IH784man

I heard if you inject a ram with alamaycin he would go infertile?

rangler1

IH784man wrote: »

I heard if you inject a ram with alamaycin he would go infertile?

I don't think so, high temperature in a ram causes infertility for 6 weeks and farmers likely treat with alamycin, but it's the high temperature not the antibiotic that causes the problem

greysides

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

IH784man wrote: »

I heard if you inject a ram with alamaycin he would go infertile?

If he needs an injection and doesn't get it....he'll be a lot more infertile....

Bleating Lamb

greysides wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

If he needs an injection and doesn't get it....he'll be a lot more infertile....

What constitutes a 'high temperature ' in a ram?

greysides

Over 104 F or 40 C.

Bleating Lamb

Update on the 'lame ram'....thankfully he has come fully right of his own accord,switched the rams around today,the rams were out 17 days,applied a different raddle colour...the 'lame' ram had 3 mature ewes served in an hour in his new bunch,two were repeats,hopefully there's not too many.

rangler1

Went to collect four rams to put out with ewe lambs this morning and found one dead, he never got his booster vaccine in eighteen months,
I always do the rams with the ewes in February but he was on loan at that time and the farmer kept him to feed him as payment for using him .
Anyway never waste a dead sheep so he's gone to the lab, but it's most likely chlostridial

Green farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

Went to collect four rams to put out with ewe lambs this morning and found one dead, he never got his booster vaccine in eighteen months,
I always do the rams with the ewes in February but he was on loan at that time and the farmer kept him to feed him as payment for using him .
Anyway never waste a dead sheep so he's gone to the lab, but it's most likely chlostridial

Found a dead lamb last week, near slaughter weight. Was sure the cause was similar because I hadn't vaccinated them since birth so gave the whole lot of them covexin 10. Vet rang back this evening and said looks like worms. This is despite having dosed them 3 weeks previous. Mild weather is causing high worm burdens and their grazing grass right down to butt at moment .

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

Found a dead lamb last week, near slaughter weight. Was sure the cause was similar because I hadn't vaccinated them since birth so gave the whole lot of them covexin 10. Vet rang back this evening and said looks like worms. This is despite having dosed them 3 weeks previous. Mild weather is causing high worm burdens and their grazing grass right down to butt at moment .

If they had bad worms after 3 weeks, the dose probably didn't work
Got a text with the PM result on the ram....twisted gut, so just bad luck, :mad:
I can stop kicking myself for forgetting to vaccinate him now,:D

Green farmer

rangler1 wrote: »

If they had bad worms after 3 weeks, the dose probably didn't work
Got a text with the PM result on the ram....twisted gut, so just bad luck, :mad:
I can stop kicking myself for forgetting to vaccinate him now,:D

They told me the count was 300, which I didn't think was high, but the lamb was abit scoury so this could possibly have diluted the count. They found nothing else, so putting worms as most likely but not definate cause, so it's the only thing I've to cling on to.
Good to hear you got clarity on your ram. Shows the benefit of p.m

rangler1

Green farmer wrote: »

They told me the count was 300, which I didn't think was high, but the lamb was abit scoury so this could possibly have diluted the count. They found nothing else, so putting worms as most likely but not definate cause, so it's the only thing I've to cling on to.
Good to hear you got clarity on your ram. Shows the benefit of p.m

No, 300 wouldn't be high, bit concerning when they're near fit, hopefully it's just once off