Buying scanned not incalf 1st or 2nd calved Cows

Icelandicseige

How much are these worth to the farmer selling?
Cull cow value? Or
Worth more?
If buying how would you make sure they would be reproductively sound and were just missed by the bull.
Seem to be lots of ads on DD selling as this

Mooooo

I'd say 99% of these just didn't hold to ai or the bull. Very unlikely to be missed by the bull. Now you could take a chance but if you are looking to milk there seems to be a lot of in calf heifers around. Buying empty cows to milk would be risky

Signpost

Went to the dairy show in Millstreet today and spent the first half hour there talking to a lad from the midlands who I've stumbled into at a good few events. We were talking the usual stuff and when we got onto breeding he said he has 3 first calved heifers empty, average EBI 90. His plan is to inject them with cyclix (lets not start an 8th amendment discussion over this!) to make sure they are definitely empty (his bull went for a bit of a weekend romance a couple weeks ago and doesn't think it was looking for votes took him in there) and run them with the maiden heifers and bull next year.

I was trying to make up the costs in my head but there is no way I can see this paying him.
Dry them on December 10th with the rest of his cows will cost him long lasting tube and sealer * 4
Vaccinate + Dose + Test for 13 months dry
Feed for 13 months
Hope she actually holds in calf when no pressure on her
Calve her down and hope she will go in calf that year when milking again.

I was estimating by the time she is back in the tank you'll have put give or take 600 / 700 into her. Based on the risk she didn't keep once I think thats far too expensive when you'd buy a replacement calved down with similar EBI for around 1200 in the spring, or could even buy an in calf heifer and feed her over the winter for around 1300 atm (bit of an unnecessary expensive for what the calf will be worth in my eyes)

His argument is that as she's only a first calver you'd probably only make 400 odd with her as a cull but that 400 + the 700 is basically the cost to replace her and no dead weight going around the farm for the year. What would the rest of ye do in this instance?

Icelandicseige

Mooooo wrote: »

I'd say 99% of these just didn't hold to ai or the bull. Very unlikely to be missed by the bull. Now you could take a chance but if you are looking to milk there seems to be a lot of in calf heifers around. Buying empty cows to milk would be risky

Not looking at next year more 2018. Wonder would incalf heifers be same price this time next year?!

Signpost

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Wonder would incalf heifers be same price this time next year?!

If the price of milk doesn't hold strong in 2017 I'd guess you'd get them far cheaper than they are now, even with milk going good next year I couldn't see them going up in price.

*All views expressed are from my own simple mind with no insider knowledge*

jaymla627

Signpost wrote: »

Went to the dairy show in Millstreet today and spent the first half hour there talking to a lad from the midlands who I've stumbled into at a good few events. We were talking the usual stuff and when we got onto breeding he said he has 3 first calved heifers empty, average EBI 90. His plan is to inject them with cyclix (lets not start an 8th amendment discussion over this!) to make sure they are definitely empty (his bull went for a bit of a weekend romance a couple weeks ago and doesn't think it was looking for votes took him in there) and run them with the maiden heifers and bull next year.

I was trying to make up the costs in my head but there is no way I can see this paying him.
Dry them on December 10th with the rest of his cows will cost him long lasting tube and sealer * 4
Vaccinate + Dose + Test for 13 months dry
Feed for 13 months
Hope she actually holds in calf when no pressure on her
Calve her down and hope she will go in calf that year when milking again.

I was estimating by the time she is back in the tank you'll have put give or take 600 / 700 into her. Based on the risk she didn't keep once I think thats far too expensive when you'd buy a replacement calved down with similar EBI for around 1200 in the spring, or could even buy an in calf heifer and feed her over the winter for around 1300 atm (bit of an unnecessary expensive for what the calf will be worth in my eyes)

His argument is that as she's only a first calver you'd probably only make 400 odd with her as a cull but that 400 + the 700 is basically the cost to replace her and no dead weight going around the farm for the year. What would the rest of ye do in this instance?

I carry over all the ladies here who don't hold once they've no issues, feet/temperament/low yielders, milk all year round so milk them away for winter and into early spring....
7 cows I carried from last year and calved in july/august are all still doing 28 plus litres, my thinking on cows like this is even if they lose a few months of calving interval its still a hell of a lot more cost effective to carry them over then carry a heifer calf for two years, buying in stock to is a minefield

Mooooo

Icelandicseige wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

I'd say 99% of these just didn't hold to ai or the bull. Very unlikely to be missed by the bull. Now you could take a chance but if you are looking to milk there seems to be a lot of in calf heifers around. Buying empty cows to milk would be risky

Not looking at next year more 2018. Wonder would incalf heifers be same price this time next year?!

What's your current position? Given the amount of beef straws used this year i reckon prices could be up next year as supply of heifers will simply be down, whether price is up or not. If you have ground now you could buy maidens and serve them in april/may to calve down spring 12 months? Could put an aa bull with them if you don't want to rear calves and sell a them before 6 weeks. On buying empties the issue is you are most likely buying problems, which when starting a herd is not what you want. I'd say try and join a local discussion group, see where lads are and how they started out and start research now into lads that regularly have cows for sale. Generally if they don't need their replacements their cows are lasting so can be the better places to buy. A trip to the local vets maybe could point you in the right direction.

whelan2

jaymla627 wrote: »

I carry over all the ladies here who don't hold once they've no issues, feet/temperament/low yielders, milk all year round so milk them away for winter and into early spring....
7 cows I carried from last year and calved in july/august are all still doing 28 plus litres, my thinking on cows like this is even if they lose a few months of calving interval its still a hell of a lot more cost effective to carry them over then carry a heifer calf for two years, buying in stock to is a minefield

essentially you are buying in some one elses cast offs. I keep the odd 1 or 2 autumn calvers over. Never ever buying in stock here again.

Mooooo

jaymla627 wrote: »

Signpost wrote: »

Went to the dairy show in Millstreet today and spent the first half hour there talking to a lad from the midlands who I've stumbled into at a good few events. We were talking the usual stuff and when we got onto breeding he said he has 3 first calved heifers empty, average EBI 90. His plan is to inject them with cyclix (lets not start an 8th amendment discussion over this!) to make sure they are definitely empty (his bull went for a bit of a weekend romance a couple weeks ago and doesn't think it was looking for votes took him in there) and run them with the maiden heifers and bull next year.

I was trying to make up the costs in my head but there is no way I can see this paying him.
Dry them on December 10th with the rest of his cows will cost him long lasting tube and sealer * 4
Vaccinate + Dose + Test for 13 months dry
Feed for 13 months
Hope she actually holds in calf when no pressure on her
Calve her down and hope she will go in calf that year when milking again.

I was estimating by the time she is back in the tank you'll have put give or take 600 / 700 into her. Based on the risk she didn't keep once I think thats far too expensive when you'd buy a replacement calved down with similar EBI for around 1200 in the spring, or could even buy an in calf heifer and feed her over the winter for around 1300 atm (bit of an unnecessary expensive for what the calf will be worth in my eyes)

His argument is that as she's only a first calver you'd probably only make 400 odd with her as a cull but that 400 + the 700 is basically the cost to replace her and no dead weight going around the farm for the year. What would the rest of ye do in this instance?

I carry over all the ladies here who don't hold once they've no issues, feet/temperament/low yielders, milk all year round so milk them away for winter and into early spring....
7 cows I carried from last year and calved in july/august are all still doing 28 plus litres, my thinking on cows like this is even if they lose a few months of calving interval its still a hell of a lot more cost effective to carry them over then carry a heifer calf for two years, buying in stock to is a minefield

I carry over cows as well but in the past it was done too much and fertility suffered as a result. Once they can milk on and have no issues I'll ai to a beef bull. However there is a difference in doing this and in what the OP is proposing as if you were to sell those cows that have no issues with regard milking on they still have one big issue which is no good for starting a herd, fertility.

Timmaay

I got one big HO here who last calved Feb 2015! Has done the 25l or so most this yr, back to about 13l now, hasn't been treated any diff to the rest of the herd. Scanning next week, hopefully she will be calving down early enough in the spring. I know from cows bulling lately that there will be a decent few empties come scanning, two 1st lact who are back in the milk and definitely gone, however some other large HOs who should milk in well into next summer, should I let the bull into them in jan and flog off as autumn calving next July, or just fatten up? If I wasn't as lazy I'd accept the handful of autumn calvers here ha, but that's a dangerous road to go back to ha, and will only let us be sloppy again with cow fertility.

Mooooo

Timmaay wrote: »

I got one big HO here who last calved Feb 2015! Has done the 25l or so most this yr, back to about 13l now, hasn't been treated any diff to the rest of the herd. Scanning next week, hopefully she will be calving down early enough in the spring. I know from cows bulling lately that there will be a decent few empties come scanning, two 1st lact who are back in the milk and definitely gone, however some other large HOs who should milk in well into next summer, should I let the bull into them in jan and flog off as autumn calving next July, or just fatten up? If I wasn't as lazy I'd accept the handful of autumn calvers here ha, but that's a dangerous road to go back to ha, and will only let us be sloppy again with cow fertility.

If you give all the rollovers a beef bull, you will breed them out eventually. They could help your autumn lactose as well. When milking all year round the cost associated with them isn't as bad once you don't end up keeping heifer calves off them. If you don't want an autumn calving bunch of heifers just stop your spring Ai at whatever date and any carryover with milk Ai in Jan to beef. Few calves to sell before Xmas as well.

Icelandicseige

How much would Jan, Feb, March born heifers be selling for and what weight should they be?