Black Lim x brfr replacements yes or no

cacs

I wanted to hear what people thought of black Lim x British Fresin crosses as cows. I know quite , usually loads of stars very good milkers etc. I have mainly red Lim and red sim Cows, but the milk is leaving the sim breed in a lot of cases and red will barely feed a calf there is too much beef in them. I was thinking of bringing some milk back hence the Lim x brfr . I sell stores due to winter housing constraints. The only problem I see the gains I get from the extra milk might be lost with poor mart prices due to the black coloured cattle, unless autum calf maybe cross in a black bull and finish before second winter. Which might be easier than it sounds as they may not come into the weights and fat score .

welton john

We usually breed a share of these from the dairy herd. they have the advantages above but i think the ch x fr would be a better cow. They consistantly out perform the lim x for me. Bring the colour and great cross to the lim

cacs

welton john wrote: »

We usually breed a share of these from the dairy herd. they have the advantages above but i think the ch x fr would be a better cow. They consistantly out perform the lim x for me. Bring the colour and great cross to the lim

I never thought of that cross I can see exactly where your coming from. I would say hard to lay your hands on char x brfr crosses in calf heifers

Grueller

welton john wrote: »

We usually breed a share of these from the dairy herd. they have the advantages above but i think the ch x fr would be a better cow. They consistantly out perform the lim x for me. Bring the colour and great cross to the lim

Have three of those here that consistently leave 500kg yearlings with no meal. Hard found though.

cacs

Grueller wrote: »

Have three of those here that consistently leave 500kg yearlings with no meal. Hard found though.

Yea I never many of them either. What would be good cross with a limxbrfr they are easier to get your hands on than a charxbrfr. I won't use bb or char bulls as work full time. I want the easy life

charolais0153

cathal irwin wrote: »

Yea I never many of them either. What would be good cross with a limxbrfr they are easier to get your hands on than a charxbrfr. I won't use bb or char bulls as work full time. I want the easy life

Would a bb cow work out of Friesian. Have seen some great calves like that

cacs

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would a bb cow work out of Friesian. Have seen some great calves like that

Yea was thinking of them. Not great calfers. But a great calf maker if it works

cacs

cathal irwin wrote: »

Yea was thinking of them. Not great calfers. But a great calf maker if it works

I suppose there is no golden bullet

charolais0153

cathal irwin wrote: »

Yea was thinking of them. Not great calfers. But a great calf maker if it works

I'm assuming your bull is easy calving. No sections, the odd pull , I wouldn't say you should have too many problems if she's middling square

welton john

yes they hard enough got. ch x heifers make crazy money as calves so with the way things are at the moment they could be bought handy as year and halves.

Grueller

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would a bb cow work out of Friesian. Have seen some great calves like that

Have a couple of these too. Breed them to the limo and get really shaped shipping calves. Also have bred them to blue and bred show winners at the weanling sales. Squarish types behind and not over muscled or you can have fierce problems.

J.O. Farmer

cathal irwin wrote: »

Yea was thinking of them. Not great calfers. But a great calf maker if it works

At that stage you were better with a bb bull. On mature cows they tend not to be too hard calved compared to char as they'refiner in the bone.

On the limXbfr how about lim again. 3/4 bred lim and 50/50 that the calf is red.

Farrell

cathal irwin wrote: »

Yea I never many of them either. What would be good cross with a limxbrfr they are easier to get your hands on than a charxbrfr. I won't use bb or char bulls as work full time. I want the easy life

Cross with the LM, the offspring should be red, but either way their offspring should have good colouring

blue5000

cathal irwin wrote: »

I never thought of that cross I can see exactly where your coming from. I would say hard to lay your hands on char x brfr crosses in calf heifers

+1

Hard to get good ones without holstein influence. Most dairy farmers are using angus or hereford bulls to mop up, maybe look there. Lim are too long in gestation for the mopping up in a dairy herd. Are you looking to buy calves or older stock?

Another option is for you to pay for lim straws and buy the calves off the dairy farmer. I know a lad that tried that and he got 1 heifer out of 5 calves, you wouldn't want to be in a hurry for replacements.

I reckon most of the marts will have 5 star replacement heifer sales next year.

Dozer1

The LMxFR is grand but one problem is sometimes too much milk.
I've a good few HExFR cows and they are all earmarked for going for that reason and I've only 2 LMxFR left and I'd be hoping to keep any of their daughters as they should have just enough milk.

Suckling is tough enough besides a cow with a big bag of milk running the risk of milk fever, mastitis etc,
yes the calves are heavier but in a year like this year you can't beat the shape.

patsy_mccabe

I think every suckler farmer in the country has the same problem - how to get milk and fertility back into cows without having to go down the Holstein route. And Holstein it is, British friesian are all but gone now.
I have a few purebred lim cows and they are all great for milk. Off the top of my head Ronick Hawk is one of the highest lim bulls for milk. Going down the route of using well proven AI bulls for milk and fertility might be the best option. Those bulls are few and far between though.

Lady Haywire

charolais0153 wrote: »

Would a bb cow work out of Friesian. Have seen some great calves like that

A lad a couple of miles away got a few of these maybe five years ago, bought them in as reared heifers I think. Anyway they stood out in a field of limos so were easy to see off the road each year :P First two years they had average enough calves, then he crossed them with a part- I think. Hard to know but they were the dark brown and black snouted/large arsed kind. And they were smashing calves.

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think every suckler farmer in the country has the same problem - how to get milk and fertility back into cows without having to go down the Holstein route. And Holstein it is, British friesian are all but gone now.
I have a few purebred lim cows and they are all great for milk. Off the top of my head Ronick Hawk is one of the highest lim bulls for milk. Going down the route of using well proven AI bulls for milk and fertility might be the best option. Those bulls are few and far between though.

We're the same, trying to keep milk in the pedigrees means having to bypass better looking bulls for figures, more paper farming! But luckily all our lims are only 1 or 2 generations back to a Navarin/Ulysse. While not great figures, they're fecking great compared to others.

tanko

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

I think every suckler farmer in the country has the same problem - how to get milk and fertility back into cows without having to go down the Holstein route. And Holstein it is, British friesian are all but gone now.
I have a few purebred lim cows and they are all great for milk. Off the top of my head Ronick Hawk is one of the highest lim bulls for milk. Going down the route of using well proven AI bulls for milk and fertility might be the best option. Those bulls are few and far between though.

It's hard to find a good lim bull to improve the milk situation alrite. I put ON-Dit and a couple of Simmental Bulls on some of the the best cows here to try and breed some replacements, how did using Simmental Bulls work out for you?

croot

Lady Haywire wrote: »

We're the same, trying to keep milk in the pedigrees means having to bypass better looking bulls for figures, more paper farming

On that note I try to breed milky replacements so I have previously sorted all the bulls on the ICBF list for milk. A lot of these aren't easily available and reliability is an issue but its a bit of a guide anyway. Don't know if anyone else will find it useful but here it is down to +2k for milk.

tanko

The current figures for OKH and NSQ are completely different from what's on that table.
NSQ cows were a disaster for milk as well as all their psychopathic craziness issues:pac:

croot

tanko wrote: »

The current figures for OKH and NSQ are completely different from what's on that table.
NSQ cows were a disaster for milk as well as all their psychopathic craziness issues:pac:

That was the list they released in July. Of course its completely changed again..........:cool:

This one might be handier

https://webapp.icbf.com/active-bull-list/beef-maternal

patsy_mccabe

tanko wrote: »

...how did using Simmental Bulls work out for you?

Only managed 4 working cows and lost 2, one to TB and the other to neospora.
Used a few simm AI straws this year, so fingers crossed.

Durrus Boy

tanko wrote: »

It's hard to find a good lim bull to improve the milk situation alrite. I put ON-Dit and a couple of Simmental Bulls on some of the the best cows here to try and breed some replacements, how did using Simmental Bulls work out for you?

Just wondering how did you find the ONI calves? Have you bred any of them? How did the bulls come? Sorry for all the questions but I've over 20 of them due next year....chasing milky heifers as well!!!
Cheers...

GiantPencil

Think if your're looking for a replacement animal you should consider changing the breed of the animal...you can always cross it back to the breed you want then

Who2

Have six here, two off Holstein that I have for replacements. Most coming red and good calves with the best being off the narrowest miserable looking tall one I have. Second generation off these are the real business for export grade breeding but I'm extremely happy with this years crop. I tried them on Charolais but only got scrap rat tailed donkey brown runts. Most came bulls year on year but I've a good few heifers this year out of them. I've one ch out of a friesan bred back to ch on each calving and I've two heifers coming on for cows, not white but very light grey and nice thick animals. I put her back to limo this year so hopefully another heifer. I've a few purebred sim cows too and really think they are over rated my favourite is a limo off a blue cow out of a friesan bred back to a bit of muscle. Unreal calves every time.

cacs

Who2 wrote: »

Have six here, two off Holstein that I have for replacements. Most coming red and good calves with the best being off the narrowest miserable looking tall one I have. Second generation off these are the real business for export grade breeding but I'm extremely happy with this years crop. I tried them on Charolais but only got scrap rat tailed donkey brown runts. Most came bulls year on year but I've a good few heifers this year out of them. I've one ch out of a friesan bred back to ch on each calving and I've two heifers coming on for cows, not white but very light grey and nice thick animals. I put her back to limo this year so hopefully another heifer. I've a few purebred sim cows too and really think they are over rated my favourite is a limo off a blue cow out of a friesan bred back to a bit of muscle. Unreal calves every time.

You have it every way alright

tanko

Durrus Boy wrote: »

Just wondering how did you find the ONI calves? Have you bred any of them? How did the bulls come? Sorry for all the questions but I've over 20 of them due next year....chasing milky heifers as well!!!
Cheers...

Had five of them last year, four Bulls and only one heifer. Not sure if I'll keep the helfer yet. Nothing wrong with the Bulls, they're long, square cattle with good frame. 525kgs €1230, 475kgs €1130, 470kgs €1160 for three of them sold as bullocks two months ago. This is one of them last year as a calf with his mother. ONI is easy calved on cows anyway, I'll have six more of them next spring hopefully.

Welding Rod

Larry and his henchmen will penalise the fudge out of heavy carcasses from next year on.
Don't we need to be breeding out the big frame breeds like char and Brit Fresian out of the cow side of things!!!

TITANIUM.

Welding Rod wrote: »

Larry and his henchmen will penalise the fudge out of heavy carcasses from next year on.
Don't we need to be breeding out the big frame breeds like char and Brit Fresian out of the cow side of things!!!

We'll just AI um all to Angus so and breed all the shape out aswell while we're at it.

jimini0

Heated dispute in the pub last night. One farmer bought in 6 AAxfr heifers 5 star for the beef scheme. Going to breed lmx calves.
Other farmer has lmx cows 3 and 4 stars. Breeding lm calves.
It was like a play ground dispute between 5 year olds.
My cows will have milk. My cows will have big ends. My cows are nicer to look at. Your cows are runts. Your cows are black.
Went on for 20 mins trying to insult eachothers cows. An ould man in the corner stood up and told them to put their money where their mouth is. So the bet was on. 500 each winner is whoever gets more money per kg for weanlings next September.
My money is on the AAx

Lady Haywire

jimini0 wrote: »

Heated dispute in the pub last night. One farmer bought in 6 AAxfr heifers 5 star for the beef scheme. Going to breed lmx calves.
Other farmer has lmx cows 3 and 4 stars. Breeding lm calves.
It was like a play ground dispute between 5 year olds.
My cows will have milk. My cows will have big ends. My cows are nicer to look at. Your cows are runts. Your cows are black.
Went on for 20 mins trying to insult eachothers cows. An ould man in the corner stood up and told them to put their money where their mouth is. So the bet was on. 500 each winner is whoever gets more money per kg for weanlings next September.
My money is on the AAx

Interesting. Could go either way depending on what bulls they choose to suit the cow, but my money would be on the AAx too. You should have thrown a nice spanner in the works and asked if any sections were being taken off the ppk.
Must set a reminder on my phone to remind you to update us!!

patsy_mccabe

There'll be a lot of feeding meal in the dark with them two boys.

jimini0

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

There'll be a lot of feeding meal in the dark with them two boys.

And spying over the hedge to check out rival calves

blue5000

jimini0 wrote: »

Heated dispute in the pub last night. One farmer bought in 6 AAxfr heifers 5 star for the beef scheme. Going to breed lmx calves.
Other farmer has lmx cows 3 and 4 stars. Breeding lm calves.
It was like a play ground dispute between 5 year olds.
My cows will have milk. My cows will have big ends. My cows are nicer to look at. Your cows are runts. Your cows are black.
Went on for 20 mins trying to insult eachothers cows. An ould man in the corner stood up and told them to put their money where their mouth is. So the bet was on. 500 each winner is whoever gets more money per kg for weanlings next September.
My money is on the AAx

Now you have an idea of what it's like to be a mod:D

My money is on AAx as well.

jimini0

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Interesting. Could go either way depending on what bulls they choose to suit the cow, but my money would be on the AAx too. You should have thrown a nice spanner in the works and asked if any sections were being taken off the ppk.
Must set a reminder on my phone to remind you to update us!!

The money is being put in a jar this eve along with the terms and conditions of the bet.

charolais0153

Has to be a limo if he puts CH on them

Lady Haywire

charolais0153 wrote: »

Has to be a limo if he puts CH on them

If they're going to be sold next harvest they'd want to be up the duff by now!
I'm guessing it'll be ppk for heifers/bulls separately jimini0? Would you be able to find out what bulls they used, especially if both used the same bull on any ?

jimini0

Lady Haywire wrote: »

If they're going to be sold next harvest they'd want to be up the duff by now!
I'm guessing it'll be ppk for heifers/bulls separately jimini0? Would you be able to find out what bulls they used, especially if both used the same bull on any ?

They are both spring calfers so all in calf already.
Dammit I will have to go to the pub tonight to find out the details.

Lady Haywire

jimini0 wrote: »

They are both spring calfers so all in calf already.
Dammit I will have to go to the pub tonight to find out the details.

On no.....what a horrible predicament you have

jimini0

Lady Haywire wrote: »

On no.....what a horrible predicament you have

I know but if the wife gives out to me for going to the pub again I will have to blame ye.

blue5000

Tell her it's research.

TITANIUM.

My money is on the limos.
They'll achieve more money anyway if not the ppk that the lighter AAFRX will make.

Who2

TITANIUM. wrote: »

My money is on the limos.
They'll achieve more money anyway if not the ppk that the lighter AAFRX will make.

i have to agree, where are people seeing the great prices for aa, they are 200 back on most limos i see going through at the same weight.

Welding Rod

Who2 wrote: »

TITANIUM. wrote: »

My money is on the limos.
They'll achieve more money anyway if not the ppk that the lighter AAFRX will make.

i have to agree, where are people seeing the great prices for aa, they are 200 back on most limos i see going through at the same weight.

AA stuff never make good money as weanlings. You need to finish to make a few squid!

patsy_mccabe

The problem with AA's is there's two types, the traditional smallish easy calving types used by dairy guys and the more shapey growthier Canadian types. Big difference between the 2.

jimini0

Well the bet is on.
Each farmer has to select 5 cows by Wednesday. The ones selected have to be bred to LM. They will be scanned on Wednesday afternoon. From what the lads say the cows were all served around the same time a couple of weeks between some of them. The calf's tag numbers and date of birth has to be put into the jar no later than 5 days after registration.
Then in September 2017 they select the best 3 from the 5. Then off to the mart on same day.
The weanlings weight will be totalled and the best price per kg wins.

Lady Haywire

Jaysis that's a big of a rigmarole!! There'll have to get an independent adjudicator to pick the three calves at this rate

Hope they're wise to the lighter, better shaped animals usually getting the best ppk....not always the best animal.

Who2

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

The problem with AA's is there's two types, the traditional smallish easy calving types used by dairy guys and the more shapey growthier Canadian types. Big difference between the 2.

the problem with aberdeen angus are they are aberdeen angus.

tanko

Are they allowed to get someone to bid up their calves?
I can see this ending up in the high court.

jimini0

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Jaysis that's a big of a rigmarole!! There'll have to get an independent adjudicator to pick the three calves at this rate

Hope they're wise to the lighter, better shaped animals usually getting the best ppk....not always the best animal.

The rules were made up by another fella. Its all a bit of nonsense really. Was a bit of craic last night but people got bored when the rules were being read. It just got too complicated.