Proof of address for jobseeker's allowance keeps being rejected

Beeatrixx

So I lost my job September 22nd very suddenly, went into intreo on Monday 26th to apply for jobseeker's allowance. Wasn't given an appointment until this past Monday 17th Oct, but I showed up with all my documentation, passport, forms and everything. As proof of address I brought in several bank statements and a letter from the bank from when they sent out my new bank card the other week. I had read on citizen's info and been told by people I'd asked that that was sufficient. I also handed in my P45, which has my address on it too, and proof that I've been applying to jobs and getting interviews.

The absolutely horrible woman who has been assigned my claim said it wasn't enough and that I needed EITHER a rentbook, a lease copy, or a letter from my landlord. I clarified that a letter would be enough; she said it would, and gave me 7 days to have it in before my claim was stopped. My landlord is a shady unregistered dickhead who is very difficult to pin down, but I managed to get him to give me a letter confirming I live here, with his signature and phone number.

I went in today and she instantly dismissed it and demanded to know where my lease was. I reminded her that she'd said a letter would be enough, and that citizen's info even says a bank statement alone is enough, and she totally dismissed me. After waiting an hour to be told that I'd just wasted my time because she gave me wrong information I was on the verge of bursting into tears and I left immediately instead of challenging it.

I am going on 4 weeks with no income now and by the time I manage to pin down my lease the 7 days will probably be up and my claim will have to be started all over again. My lease is also a very simple template drawn up by my landlord so there's a chance even that won't be sufficient. I went into my local citizen's info office straight after and was told it was very unusual since she has proof of my address in 4 different ways now. I just can't understand - a friend of mine was on it for a few months, only needed a statement, another friend who just lost his job only needed a statement and is already receiving it, my sister only needed a letter from the bank, my boyfriend just used a statement when he had to apply a few years ago. So why the hell is proof in 4 different ways from me still not enough?

I know this is a long post but any advice whatsoever on what to do next is much appreciated, I've never been through this process before. Is there anything else I can do here? Is it even possible to get someone else to take my claim?

NickNickleby

Hi Beatrixx,

You SHOULD have a lease, but I can understand that in some circumstances one might not exist.

Write a letter to the Local Office Manager (that is the correct title). Outline exactly what has happened from the first visit to the most recent. If you don't have a lease, explain why but be careful not to say anything nasty about the landlord. Add that you got the landlord to write the letter but he was reluctant, and say that you don't want to put your accommodation at risk.

Do this immediately, or your claim will be closed and you'll be forced to jump through hoops to get it reopened. Bring the letter in TOMORROW by hand and ask the person you give it to, for their name. Make a note of it, and be prepared to describe the person subsequently, should the letter be lost. Mark the letter Urgent. You will most likely get a written response, but include your phone number in case they want you to come back in. If you don't hear something by Tuesday, go back to the window where you handed in your landlord letter on Tuesday. Did they take the landlord letter from you?

I've seen stuff like this before. Sometimes its down to an overly officious and even obnoxious civil servant, but sometimes there can be genuine doubt about the information provided. Don't know which applies in your case.

Keep a written record of everything you do. BTW, when they ask you to bring back additional info, they're supposed to give you a written note explaining what is required and by when.

I have worked in a SW office as a Temp CO, and I've seen it all, your situation is not unique.

January

Go in tomorrow and ask to speak to the manager, do not write a letter and wait for a reply. Be polite. You should be able to make a claim for Supplementary Welfare Allowance until your Job Seekers claim is allowed, ask to speak to the Community Welfare Officer while you are there.

Beeatrixx

Daft question, but how would you suggest I go about doing that - I'm assuming all intreo offices are the same, in my local one someone greets you at the door to see what you want, you get your ticket and wait until you're called to a window. Should I just wait until I'm called to a window and then ask to speak to a manager/community welfare officer, or should I ask to speak to someone straight away?

NickNickleby

Hi Beatrixx

If when you go in and the first guy asks what you want , tell him/her you want to see the manager. They'll ask why. If they try to refer you to the Enquiries Desk, say No, you've been there and now want to speak to the manager. Have your letter ready and say you want to discuss your difficulty in getting proof of address. Its possible (and I'd say likely) you'll be told the manager isn't available. Then say you want to talk to the Welfare Officer. In my experience, they only pay out pending JA claims, if there's an official Appeal in progress - let's hope it doesn't come to that. Now, it might differ from office to office, but I expect you'll be given a ticket and sent to Reception. There, your details will be taken, and you either be given an appointment to see the CWO, or they'll take your number and say the CWO will ring you. If you see the CWO, hand them the letter for the manager. If you don't see the CWO, give the letter to whoever is on Reception - and ask them their name. In most cases you're dealing with normal human beings like ourselves, and if you explain to the Receptionist that you're under terrible financial pressure, they'll make sure the letter lands on the managers desk immediately. (I used to do this job, and I would have).
Before you leave, (and assuming you haven't managed to get the manager) ask for the managers name and telephone number.

LG1234

Beeatrixx wrote: »

Daft question, but how would you suggest I go about doing that - I'm assuming all intreo offices are the same, in my local one someone greets you at the door to see what you want, you get your ticket and wait until you're called to a window. Should I just wait until I'm called to a window and then ask to speak to a manager/community welfare officer, or should I ask to speak to someone straight away?

Save yourself the hassle, just get a lease from the internet

Beeatrixx

Thanks so much NickNickleby, I'll type up a letter tonight. Would you suggest that if it comes up I should mention that my landlord isn't registered, hence me not having a lease at hand, or will that get me in to trouble with them?

Another question - I have a final meeting at a company I applied to work for tomorrow afternoon, and they're going to offer me a job once we've sorted out a contract etc. I'm not considering it 100% mine until I've signed a contract, but I know that it's pretty much a done deal. This still leaves me poor for the time being since I won't get any pay until the end of November, otherwise I wouldn't be freaking out so much about jobseeker's. As far as I know they need someone to start asap - so when I go in tomorrow, should I mention that I'm going to be starting work next week, and will let them know when, or is that going to completely screw up my claim? I don't want to get into trouble for not being upfront with them and don't want to claim once I'm working again.

Beeatrixx

LG1234 wrote: »

Save yourself the hassle, just get a lease from the internet

That won't work, I won't have his signature on it in time to head into the dole office

NickNickleby

Hi B.

I'm sure LG1234 means you should get a Lease template and get your Landlord to sign it, then present it to SW.

Do not be tempted to get something from the Internet and pass it off as genuine, they WILL catch you out and you'll be in serious trouble.

May I ask how come you don't have a Lease? It does offer some (limited ) protection. Actually, ignore that. THe reason is immaterial to the matter at hand and you don't need to explain all the ins and outs of your tenancy on here.

Nick

Beeatrixx

Yeah, that would be ideal, but he said he would drop over a copy of the lease anyway so there wouldn't be much point in getting him to sign a different one. I wouldn't dream of risking faking it, I want to be as transparent and upfront as possible, sure I'm already feeling guilty and in the wrong as it is and I've been doing everything by the book so far.

I don't know why I don't have it, I suppose it was on me to chase it up but he's very shady and when it comes to paperwork he's impossible to pin down. I rang him earlier to say I needed a copy and he was plainly not happy about it at all even though it's my right. Probably worried he'll get caught out because he's not registered, which I would like to just say to intreo as way of explanation as to why it's difficult for me to get a copy, but I don't know if that's a terrible idea and will end up hurting my claim.

FloatingVoter

Bank statements are not proof of address, utility bills are. It's a stupid rule, and one that punishes the many because of the few who abuse loopholes.

Your landlords written and signed confirmation that "Beatrix X lives at this address" scrawled in biro on a utility bill in his name will pass muster at any office in Dublin as proof of address. That counts even if he's Jack the Ripper. Not your fault.

If he pays the ESB or gas he gets a bill. He can print it out if he's an eco person.

If they're chasing up tenancy agreements specifically, they suspect you're co-habitating with the girlfriend / boyfriend and she should be in the means test too. Old partners have a way of showing up on computers even though you tossed them years ago.

Even at that, a Social Welfare Inspector would have called on you to confirm or discount any suspicion. They mainly drink tea and count toothbrushes.

And pop into the local Intreo, ask politely and say you're confused about what you're doing wrong (...a spot of acting).
If the introductory line to my meeting you is "I want to speak to your supervisor" then we're on a downhill path. They all have supervisors, and each has a bin.
You sound like a genuine person who needs the CWO immediately and straight non-internet answers after that.

Beeatrixx

I did end up going in and asking the person who greets you at the door if I could speak to a supervisor, she had no problem sending me to speak to a really lovely gent where I explained that I'd provided proof of my address on the statement/bank letter/P45/landlord letter etc, and said that she'd rejected them despite 1. the citizen's info/welfare.ie websites and numerous jobseeker's advice leaflets suggesting these as proof, and 2. her saying originally that she would accept a letter from him as proof. He at first said it'd be better for me to talk to her but I very politely said I'd prefer to speak to someone else about it, so he went and spoke to her for me. Came back ten minutes later and said she had agreed to award me my claim, but that her issue had been that because the letter my landlord had written said 'this is to confirm that __ lives at the above address and has a signed a lease', she wanted to see the lease. So if he hadn't said that, she would have probably accepted it. So I still have to bring my lease in 'just for my file'. Totally, totally stupid.

Anyway, decided there was no point saying anything else since the main thing was that I get my claim. Now the struggle is getting my horrible landlord to actually give me the lease. Also have a new job to start Monday afternoon so will need to tell them that. Blah.

uck51js9zml2yt

Beeatrixx wrote: »

I did end up going in and asking the person who greets you at the door if I could speak to a supervisor, she had no problem sending me to speak to a really lovely gent where I explained that I'd provided proof of my address on the statement/bank letter/P45/landlord letter etc, and said that she'd rejected them despite 1. the citizen's info/welfare.ie websites and numerous jobseeker's advice leaflets suggesting these as proof, and 2. her saying originally that she would accept a letter from him as proof. He at first said it'd be better for me to talk to her but I very politely said I'd prefer to speak to someone else about it, so he went and spoke to her for me. Came back ten minutes later and said she had agreed to award me my claim, but that her issue had been that because the letter my landlord had written said 'this is to confirm that __ lives at the above address and has a signed a lease', she wanted to see the lease. So if he hadn't said that, she would have probably accepted it. So I still have to bring my lease in 'just for my file'. Totally, totally stupid.

Anyway, decided there was no point saying anything else since the main thing was that I get my claim. Now the struggle is getting my horrible landlord to actually give me the lease. Also have a new job to start Monday afternoon so will need to tell them that. Blah.

Congrats on the new job. You can get SW to suspend your claim ( can't remember how long is allowed) in case the job doesn't work out and you need to claim again.
It saves having to reapply.