Leaf charger adaptor?

DrPhilG

Was talking to a fella the other day at a charger, (and fair play to him he let me skip the queue as I only needed 5 minutes), and he was telling me that you can get an adapter to let you charge a Leaf on the Zoe side of FCPs.

I'm guessing it's this or something similar?

https://evconnectors.com/j1772-to-62196-2-16-amp-plugs-and-cable-dsi-dsiec-ev16p&currency=GBP&language=en?gclid=CKn3m7rM6c8CFQYo0wodoGUMJA

Anybody used one? Wouldn't be often that you'd need one of course but could be a life saver too with increasing queues at FCPs and idiots abandoning.

stesaurus

Only going to give you 3.3 or 6.6 though so not that great, i can count on one hand the amount of times I've used the AC side of an FCP while waiting for the DC to free up

zilog_jones

Does the Leaf not come with a Type 1 (J1772) to Type-2 (IEC 62196 or "Mennekes") cable like the one linked? I see loads of Leafs using public AC-only chargers around Cork - are they all buying these cables separately?

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

Does the Leaf not come with a Type 1 (J1772) to Type-2 (IEC 62196 or "Mennekes") cable like the one linked? I see loads of Leafs using public AC-only chargers around Cork - are they all buying these cables separately?

The fast AC on the triple heads is a type 2 plug, the leaf has a type1 socket, The standard cable , is a Type 2 plug to a type 1 plug .

to use a fast AC type 2 you need a type 2 socket to type 1 plug conversion cable

zilog_jones

I'm not following you. The fast AC chargers have the same Type 2 female connector as any other standard AC public charging point - it's just on a lead instead of a fixed socket. Cars with Type 2 inlets (BMW i3, etc.) have male sockets (Type 1 cars are also male) - the same as the Type 2 end on the cable linked above, and (I assume) the Leaf also comes with a Type 1 female to Type 2 male cable for standard AC charging.


However, AFAIK the 43kW Type 2 chargers only work directly connected to a car with a Type 2 socket. There's nothing stopping you connecting it with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable, it just won't do anything. I knew this was the case with my car (Prius Plug-in) but apparently it's the same with the Leaf - maybe because they don't support three-phase AC.

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm not following you. The fast AC chargers have the same Type 2 female connector as any other standard AC public charging point - it's just on a lead instead of a fixed socket. Cars with Type 2 inlets (BMW i3, etc.) have male sockets (Type 1 cars are also male) - the same as the Type 2 end on the cable linked above, and (I assume) the Leaf also comes with a Type 1 female to Type 2 male cable for standard AC charging.


However, AFAIK the 43kW Type 2 chargers only work directly connected to a car with a Type 2 socket. There's nothing stopping you connecting it with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable, it just won't do anything. I knew this was the case with my car (Prius Plug-in) but apparently it's the same with the Leaf - maybe because they don't support three-phase AC.

OK,

The SCPs , ESB Ecars terminology have typically dual type 2 menneskes sockets ( lets ignore that they are male sockets or female sockets )

The multi head FCP , where fitted for AC fast charging have a Menneskes Type 2 Plug so that it can be directly plugged into any type 2 car .

IN the case of a SCP you need a user supplied cable , that has a TYPE 2 plug on one end and a Type 1 or type plug on the other end as suits the car

Theres no specification issue in connection a FAST AC type 2 to a single phase type 1 , unless the FCP is enforcing three phase charging

zilog_jones

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. It's the same female Type 2 connector on SCPs and FCPs, just the FCP version is tethered - it doesn't make any difference if it's a "plug" or "socket" by your terminology, which is ambiguous IMO. Both can be physically connected with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable from a Type 1 car - whether a FCP will actually work with such a cable is another thing, though s.welstead claims to have used one...

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I'm not sure the point you're trying to make. It's the same female Type 2 connector on SCPs and FCPs, just the FCP version is tethered - it doesn't make any difference if it's a "plug" or "socket" by your terminology, which is ambiguous IMO. Both can be physically connected with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable from a Type 1 car - whether a FCP will actually work with such a cable is another thing, though s.welstead claims to have used one...

are you saying that for say a Zoe, they have to use their Type 2 cable and cant plug the fast AC tethered ( multi head FCP) cable directly into the car ( thats not what I witnessed )

zilog_jones

I never said that. The topic here is about connecting a car with a Type 1 connection to a Type 2 AC FCP.

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

I never said that. The topic here is about connecting a car with a Type 1 connection to a Type 2 AC FCP.

Just to conform , the connector "sex" on the FAST AC triple heads tethered cable , is the opposite to the connector that is revealed on the SCP when the shutter opens, In the Fast AC , you use the tethered cable directly to the cars type 2 connector, in the SCP you provide the cable.

There is no technical reason why a single phase Type 2 charging system cannot connect to a Type 1 connectors, the signalling is identical.

It has been alleged , that there is additional logic in some chargers to prevent this , its certainly NOT in the SCPs , as I can charge using my leafs single phase AC charger.

I have no confirmation that the FCP Fast AC expects a three phase charger as mandatory , Id be very supplied, so therefore until I get convincing evidence, I will assume the same logic that is in the SCP is in the FCP. Hence a Type 2 to type 1 cable with the approbate connector sexing, should also work, because I see no reason why it wont work.

I have a direct line to Ecars infrastructure , I'll ask tomorrow

zilog_jones

BoatMad wrote: »

Just to conform , the connector "sex" on the FAST AC triple heads tethered cable , is the opposite to the connector that is revealed on the SCP when the shutter opens, In the Fast AC , you use the tethered cable directly to the cars type 2 connector, in the SCP you provide the cable.

Incorrect - the gender is the same on both. They are female connectors. The Type 2 ports on the Zoe, i3, etc. are male. I have physically plugged a Type 2 male connector into one these FCPs.

Look at the video, the Type 2 connector is shown clearly (at 0:43):

I don't see any pins there.

And the port on the Zoe:


It's a male connector (see recessed pins), just like on the Type 1 to Type 2 cable that came with your Leaf. If you want to use a SCP with a Type 2 car you use a female to male cable.

BoatMad

PS: You're looking at CCS , thats a DC fast charge connector in the first photo not Fast AC !!!!
opps sorry I see at 0.43

Thats confirms what I said, That Fast AC plug is designed to connect directly to the cars type 2 connector

I think we are arguing at cross purposes here,

zilog_jones

It's a video :rolleyes:
Go to 0:43

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

It's a video :rolleyes:
Go to 0:43

I edited my post

I think we are arguing at cross purposes, As I said the Fast AC tethered is designed to plug directly into the Type 2 car connector

equally with the correct type 2 to type 2 cable or a convertor cable , it should be technically possible to charge a Leaf from a fast AC, the signalling is the same

The only reasoning that they wont work is that the FAST AC charger will NOT power up the cycle if it doesnt detect three phases in use. The SCPs are also 3-phase , but clearly they dont have that restriction ( or detection ).A leaf owner should be able to plug in there type 2 to type 1 and have it work just like a SCP. ( unless ESB have decided to stop that to prevent hogging of fast FCPs )

Given that the Eface multi heads have replaced SCPs in certain cases, I would find it worrying that they wont supply a single phase charger, The Signalling system itself , IEC 61851-1, is the same for type 1 and type 2

zilog_jones

What's wrong with using the Type 1 female to Type 2 male cable that you already have, to go into the Type 2 female connector at the FCP? Are you still confused about cable genders?

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

What's wrong with using the Type 1 female to Type 2 male cable that you already have, to go into the Type 2 female connector at the FCP? Are you still confused about cable genders?

Sorry ,maybe its my english. I meant that the leaf owner can use any Type 2 to type 1 cable that suits , including the one in the boot

I have been arguing all along that Leafs can connect to Fast AC. The interlocks are in software if it doesnt work, its not a function of the connectors or the signalling system.

zilog_jones

Up until now you've been suggesting SCP AC connectors are the opposite of FCP connectors, which is wrong (they're the same thing presented in a different way), and were talking about mysterious "conversion cables" that are apparently different to what the OP originally posted (the OP linked to a cable that would be suitable for a FCP) and apparently different to what is supplied with the Leaf. Please look at your first reply here and tell me that made any sense.

I'm not denying there could be some electronic or software incompatibility. People in the UK are saying they don't work (charging points could be different though), and it didn't work for me (different car though, with 3 kW charger).

BoatMad

However, AFAIK the 43kW Type 2 chargers only work directly connected to a car with a Type 2 socket. There's nothing stopping you connecting it with a Type 1 to Type 2 cable, it just won't do anything. I knew this was the case with my car (Prius Plug-in) but apparently it's the same with the Leaf - maybe because they don't support three-phase AC.

I'm not denying there could be some electronic or software incompatibility. People in the UK are saying they don't work (charging points could be different though), and it didn't work for me (different car though, with 3 kW charger).

Sorry , I think you miss the point, I have been arguing all along that Leafs can be connected to Fast AC.

And its nothing to do with " incompatibilities ". The only reason a Fast AC connection wouldn't charge a Leaf, is that a specific provision has been inserted into the charger to detect single phase charging and not allow the session to start. It may have been assumed by the ESB and the manufacturer that they dont want too support slow AC charging on triple heads. My understanding however is that many PHEVS are single phase and I believe these are charging from FAST AC, if that is the case then , there is no reason leafs cant either

Has anyone actually tried it.

zilog_jones

BoatMad wrote:

Sorry , I think you miss the point, I have been arguing all along that Leafs can be connected to Fast AC.

No, you've been spouting confusing nonsense for most of this thread:

BoatMad wrote:

The fast AC on the triple heads is a type 2 plug, the leaf has a type1 socket, The standard cable , is a Type 2 plug to a type 1 plug .

to use a fast AC type 2 you need a type 2 socket to type 1 plug conversion cable

"The standard cable" (for SCPs I assume) = Type 1 female to Type 2 male
The cable you need to connect a Leaf to a FCP AC Type 2 connection = Type 1 female to Type 2 male
They're the same thing, but you're suggesting you need some magical "conversion cable". The fact it's a "plug" coming out the FCP is irrelevant for this application.

I still have no idea what you were actually trying to say there.

BoatMad wrote: »

And its nothing to do with " incompatibilities ". The only reason a Fast AC connection wouldn't charge a Leaf, is that a specific provision has been inserted into the charger to detect single phase charging and not allow the session to start.

Thus making it incompatible. Incompatibilities can be intentional.

BoatMad

zilog_jones wrote: »

No, you've been spouting confusing nonsense for most of this thread:


"The standard cable" (for SCPs I assume) = Type 1 female to Type 2 male
The cable you need to connect a Leaf to a FCP AC Type 2 connection = Type 1 female to Type 2 male
They're the same thing, but you're suggesting you need some magical "conversion cable". The fact it's a "plug" coming out the FCP is irrelevant for this application.

I still have no idea what you were actually trying to say there.



Thus making it incompatible. Incompatibilities can be intentional.

you seem far more interested in conflict then dealing with the subject, I would ask you to refrain from Adhominen attacks.

The leaf needs a conversion cable for type 2 charging , it always did

KCross

I've tried it with the cable that came with my car and it didn't work for me on the Talbot Hotel Stillorgan FCP. The DC side was free, I selected AC and it failed the initialisation stage and went no further.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=99508470

I must try it again on some other FCP's to see if others will allow it.

n97 mini

zilog_jones wrote: »

"The standard cable" (for SCPs I assume) = Type 1 female to Type 2 male

I think I have this right: The standard cable is T1 male plug to plug into the Leaf's T1 female socket and a T2 male plug on the other (charger) end. The public 3-headed chargers have a T2 male which won't go into the Leaf T1 female.

zilog_jones

Not exactly - the 3-headed FCPs have a Type 2 female connector (same as any other AC public charging point), just tethered as opposed to fixed. You can use your standard Type 1 to Type 2 cable into the FCP - there's no mechanical issue there, but people are saying (except for s.welstead) they don't work with the Leaf.

stesaurus

zilog_jones wrote: »

Not exactly - the 3-headed FCPs have a Type 2 female connector (same as any other AC public charging point), just tethered as opposed to fixed. You can use your standard Type 1 to Type 2 cable into the FCP - there's no mechanical issue there, but people are saying (except for s.welstead) they don't work with the Leaf.

I don't have a Leaf so don't bring me into it. I have an i3 which can charge from a type 2 tethered cable. A Leaf can't without some sort of extra cabling/adapter.

This thread is incredibly confusing by the way. You're not understanding the difference between a plug/connector. The SCP connector is not the same as a FCP plug.

FCPs have a type 2 female plug which works directly with a Zoe or the top part of a CCS charger (i3, e-golf)


SCPs have a type 2 female connector. All EVs come with an AC cable which has one end as type 2 male plug to connect to the SCP. Then whatever on the other end.

Leaf = type 1

rest = type 2.

KCross

s.welstead wrote: »

I don't have a Leaf so don't bring me into it. I have an i3 which can charge from a type 2 tethered cable. A Leaf can't without some sort of extra cabling/adapter.

This thread is incredibly confusing by the way. You're not understanding the difference between a plug/connector. The SCP connector is not the same as a FCP plug.

The thread is confusing but I believe the question was simple enough. It was the same question asked by me last April in the thread I referenced above.

Basically... can you use the standard Type 2<-->Type 1 cable that you get with the Leaf to charge off the Fast AC side of an FCP. Its a simple question and no need to discuss male/female/plug/socket at all.

I believe the answer is that it doesnt work. At least it didnt work for me on one FCP. The cable that comes with the leaf will plug into the end of the AC cable on the FCP and it all looks fine but the charger wont deliver any power.

It appears the FCP's are inhibiting Leafs from slow charging on an FCP which makes perfect sense and a reasonable thing to do.

Im going to try another FCP and see if it was a once off or not.

I presume your i3 can use the Fast AC on an FCP because it has a larger onboard charger and so the FCP allows it because of that?

stesaurus

KCross wrote: »

The thread is confusing but I believe the question was simple enough. It was the same question asked by me last April in the thread I referenced above.

Basically... can you use the standard Type 2<-->Type 1 cable that you get with the Leaf to charge off the Fast AC side of an FCP. Its a simple question and no need to discuss male/female/plug/socket at all.

I believe the answer is that it doesnt work. At least it didnt work for me on one FCP. The cable that comes with the leaf will plug into the end of the AC cable on the FCP and it all looks fine but the charger wont deliver any power.

It appears the FCP's are inhibiting Leafs from slow charging on an FCP which makes perfect sense and a reasonable thing to do.

Im going to try another FCP and see if it was a once off or not.

I presume your i3 can use the Fast AC on an FCP because it has a larger onboard charger and so the FCP allows it because of that?

The i3 can charge on it because the software(both onboard and FCP) allows it, not because it's capable of a higher speed. As far as I know some of the FCPs needed a software upgrade on the FCP side to allow it to work. The Leaf might be capable from a hardware spec but it may still need something changed on the FCP firmware to expect it, pilot signal etc.

You tried it on the Talbot hotel FCP, right? I don't think that's setup for dual charging anyway so it wouldn't work for me either. Try one of the other FCPs

Padraig Mor

KCross wrote: »

I believe the answer is that it doesnt work. At least it didnt work for me on one FCP. The cable that comes with the leaf will plug into the end of the AC cable on the FCP and it all looks fine but the charger wont deliver any power?

Same for me too. It's worthy noting as well that the Leaf cable doesn't 'lock' in to the FCP connector - it's a pretty loose connection and not particularly safe feeling.

stesaurus

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Same for me too. It's worthy noting as well that the Leaf cable doesn't 'lock' in to the FCP connector - it's a pretty loose connection and not particularly safe feeling.

Out of interest have you ever tried charging from a type 2 tethered home charger using your AC cable?

It would be interesting to see if it works. I have one at my place if someone would like to test!

BoatMad

s.welstead wrote: »

The i3 can charge on it because the software(both onboard and FCP) allows it, not because it's capable of a higher speed. As far as I know some of the FCPs needed a software upgrade on the FCP side to allow it to work. The Leaf might be capable from a hardware spec but it may still need something changed on the FCP firmware to expect it, pilot signal etc.

You tried it on the Talbot hotel FCP, right? I don't think that's setup for dual charging anyway so it wouldn't work for me either. Try one of the other FCPs

The signalling on fast AC is the same as any type 2 and that signalling is identical to the type 1 signalling. There is nothing an i3 can do that the leaf doesn't do. There is special " software " The only thing the fcp could do is inhibit single phase charging

I will try it later today.

josip

OT, but it's a bit worrying for a non EV owner like me, who would like to some day purchase an EV, to see the confusion here among EV owners.
It may be simply down to terminology but if the early adopters, who in general will be more educated about EVs than mainstream consumers, are having trouble explaining/understanding, what hope is there for the rest of us?

If I go into any filling station at the moment, it's either black for diesel, or green for unleaded. Maybe red if I've got something older.

At the moment I'm completely confused with all the terms that are floating around: 3.3kw/6.6kw/Chademo/Fast Charging/AC cable/DC cable/tethered/male/female/front side/ back side/FCP side/type 1 signalling/type 2 signalling/SCP/
Have I left out anything?:)

KCross

s.welstead wrote: »

The i3 can charge on it because the software(both onboard and FCP) allows it, not because it's capable of a higher speed. As far as I know some of the FCPs needed a software upgrade on the FCP side to allow it to work. The Leaf might be capable from a hardware spec but it may still need something changed on the FCP firmware to expect it, pilot signal etc.

You tried it on the Talbot hotel FCP, right? I don't think that's setup for dual charging anyway so it wouldn't work for me either. Try one of the other FCPs

The DC side was free at the time so it wouldnt have been a dual charge scenario. I only had the car a few weeks so I was just experimenting at the time.

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Same for me too. It's worthy noting as well that the Leaf cable doesn't 'lock' in to the FCP connector - it's a pretty loose connection and not particularly safe feeling.

Agree.


I went to another FCP while ago that was nearby. Its a DBT dual head and it did the same as Stillorgan. It starts it initialisation phase and eventually gives up. Its like the car isnt talking to it.

Maybe an adaptor of some kind is required?


@josip: Dont pay too much attention to this thread. What we are discussing is not normal charging. We are discussing something which may not be allowed at all by the chargers so its not something a newbie should concern themselves with.

There isnt any confusion among us about how to charge our cars "properly" at these chargers. Its fairly straight forward and dont let this thread turn you off.

zilog_jones

s.welstead wrote: »

I don't have a Leaf so don't bring me into it.

Sorry, I missed that part.

This thread is incredibly confusing by the way. You're not understanding the difference between a plug/connector. The SCP connector is not the same as a FCP plug.

I do understand this, and sorry if I'm not being clear, but for the purpose of connecting a Type 1 car the fact it's a plug or socket is not really relevant - you have a cable with a Type 2 male plug at one end and the FCP connector is female, so it will connect, i.e.:

• Car with Type 2 port (Zoe, i3, etc.): Connect to FCP Type 2 cable directly
• Car with Type 1 port (Leaf, etc.): Connect to Type 2 via Type 1-to-Type 2 cable (same as how you connect to a SCP)

The fact it's a plug and not a socket is not important for a physical connection for the latter application - it's just dangling off a wire instead of in a fixed location. It will connect and I have tried it.

But as people have said, it doesn't actually work for other reasons. It's probably not a supported mode of operation as they assume a Leaf will use Chademo, and any other single-phase AC car is probably a PHEV which shouldn't be there.

@josip: A lot of the problem is the three main standards came from three different regions (US/Japan/Europe), and then there are derivatives on those. Type 2 is the European standard for AC charging, but then there's DC (two standards), and cars sold in Europe with Type 1 ports (no charging points exist here with Type 1). But yes, this thread can probably be ignored as it's about doing something weird which doesn't seem to be supported by the fast chargers anyway.

BoatMad

josip wrote: »

OT, but it's a bit worrying for a non EV owner like me, who would like to some day purchase an EV, to see the confusion here among EV owners.
It may be simply down to terminology but if the early adopters, who in general will be more educated about EVs than mainstream consumers, are having trouble explaining/understanding, what hope is there for the rest of us?

If I go into any filling station at the moment, it's either black for diesel, or green for unleaded. Maybe red if I've got something older.

At the moment I'm completely confused with all the terms that are floating around: 3.3kw/6.6kw/Chademo/Fast Charging/AC cable/DC cable/tethered/male/female/front side/ back side/FCP side/type 1 signalling/type 2 signalling/SCP/
Have I left out anything?:)

Tested the fastAC at coynes ( EFACEC) cable plugs in but doesn't charge. Charger does not report fault just nothing happens

BoatMad

If I go into any filling station at the moment, it's either black for diesel, or green for unleaded. Maybe red if I've got something older.

Imagine if you had never seen an ice car. Iyou rock up to a multi standard pump, I could have road diesel , green diesel , " Clean diesel", unleaded ( in Europe two cetanes etc )

All very confusing

By and large in normal usages , you rock up with your EV. Stick in the only connector that fits , press start and have a quick coffee , that's it