Warehouse Working Conditions - Minimum Temperature

johnkieran1

Hi

I'm working in a warehouse with no insulation and absolutely no heating. The role in the main involves entering data to a database so a lot of the time (80%) is spent sitting in front of a computer - I would describe it as a sedentary role. There are other roles in the warehouse that involve a greater degree of physical work.

Under Health and Safety legislation are there minimum temperatures that must be adhered to in situations such as this? I know that in an office environment there are minimum temperatures that must be maintained.

But given that this is a warehouse is the employer not governed by this legislation. And just to clarify, the vast majority of the role involves time at a work station doing computer work.

There is absolutely no heating of any description and to make matters worse the warehouse doors are opening and closing on a regular basis. The employer have providing jackets so in a sense have acknowledged that it is an issue. But these are totally inadequate imo as throughout the day my feet, hands and body generally feel cold. There has been a considerable drop in temperatures in the last few weeks and things are only going to get worse from now until spring.


Are my employer not obliged/required to provide an acceptable working environment?

intheclouds

Can you not wear thermals and hat/gloves etc?

johnkieran1

intheclouds wrote: »

Can you not wear thermals and hat/gloves etc?

I do. Hat, thermals, 3 pairs of socks on today but was still cold this morning between 8 and 10pm. Starting to thaw out now as the day warms up. And on the days where temperatures remain low and the nature of the work does not involve physical effort the body will just get colder and colder.
But my query is given the nature of the role where the majority of the work is in front of a computer, is the employer obliged to meet certain standards in particular with regard to temperature?

2RockMountain

intheclouds wrote: »

Can you not wear thermals and hat/gloves etc?

Have you tried typing wearing gloves?

An employer is required to provide any protective clothing needed in your employment.

intheclouds

2RockMountain wrote: »

Have you tried typing wearing gloves?

An employer is required to provide any protective clothing needed in your employment.

Yes. In a warehouse as it happens.

Im actually trying to help the OP - other people may have better info on legal requirements but there are suggestions that may assist outside of that.

intheclouds

johnkieran1 wrote: »

I do. Hat, thermals, 3 pairs of socks on today but was still cold this morning between 8 and 10pm. Starting to thaw out now as the day warms up. And on the days where temperatures remain low and the nature of the work does not involve physical effort the body will just get colder and colder.
But my query is given the nature of the role where the majority of the work is in front of a computer, is the employer obliged to meet certain standards in particular with regard to temperature?

Can you get a heater installed where the computer is?

I have a similar issue (although not as serious) in my own current office environment - people go out through a door to smoke and the door doesnt close properly and Im right in the draught of it.

They wont provide me a heater as the room temp is normal so I bring a hot water bottle and use it on my chair - it helps a lot.

In a previous job one girl used to bring a hot water bottle and cover her legs with a blanket too.

put an electric heater under the desk

2RockMountain

intheclouds wrote: »

Yes. In a warehouse as it happens.

What's your secret? I've found it impossible to type at anything near normal speed wearing gloves, even fingerless ones.

my3cents

OP can I suggest two things that I have seen used in packing sheds where dexterity is required but there is no heating.

One> Heated floor mats just for the working area, at least your feet stay warm

Two> Overhead infrared lamps. Its radiated heat so only really heats what is below the lamp.

Neither are that expensive to run in comparison to heating a cold warehouse

btw hope you have a heated canteen or at least somewhere warm to have a break?

Lux23

I used to wear those gloves with the fingers cut off the top when I worked in a really cold office. I also wore a blazer, scarf and woolly jumper, so my boss used to call me Bob Cratchit with a hint of irony. I was constantly sick too. Can they give you a heater that you can plug in beside you? It might make a bit of difference.

seamus

The HSA states a guideline of 17.5 degrees minimum for an indoor sedentary worker, not necessarily an office worker. In a warehouse environment this would likely require partitioning off part of the warehouse as an office in order to keep that area warmer.

However, you're not completely sedentary. So they'd be well within the guidelines if they were to provide appropriate clothing, a heater or a couple of partition walls around the computer.

17.5 degrees will actually feel quite cold to most people who are more accustomed to indoor temps of around 20 degrees. Especially if there's a through-draft.

I'd ask them if you can get a wooden stud windbreak around the computer so that you're not getting the draft when the warehouse door opens.

C3PO

Here's an interesting article which answers your question I think! http://www.mondaq.com/x/93196/employee+rights+labour+relations/Workplace+Temperatures

"In relation to sedentary office work, an employer must ensure that a minimum temperature of 17.5°C, so far as is reasonably practicable, is achieved and maintained at every workstation after the first hour's work. For other sedentary work, an employer must ensure that at every workstation where a substantial proportion of the work is done sitting and does not involve serious physical effort, a minimum temperature of 16°C is, so far as is reasonably practicable, achieved and maintained after the first hour's work."

Of course "reasonably practicable" is open to interpretation particularly given you're talking about an open warehouse!

intheclouds

2RockMountain wrote: »

What's your secret? I've found it impossible to type at anything near normal speed wearing gloves, even fingerless ones.

I used these expensive cycling ones that were thin but warm, they allowed dexterity (which youd need on the bike). Actually I was cycling to work at the time so I just used the ones Id gotten for the bike.

The fingerless ones are rubbish because your hands get cold in them imo.

2RockMountain

intheclouds wrote: »

I used these expensive cycling ones that were thin but warm, they allowed dexterity (which youd need on the bike). Actually I was cycling to work at the time so I just used the ones Id gotten for the bike.

The fingerless ones are rubbish because your hands get cold in them imo.

Could be difficult in my preferred cycling gloves!


I've tried with different types of fingerless gloves, but I found that the bulk of the gloves pushed my fingers out from the normal position, making typing very difficult. I guess it might be possible with very thin gloves, but if these are required, the employer should be providing them.

johnkieran1

seamus wrote: »

The HSA states a guideline of 17.5 degrees minimum for an indoor sedentary worker, not necessarily an office worker. In a warehouse environment this would likely require partitioning off part of the warehouse as an office in order to keep that area warmer.

However, you're not completely sedentary. So they'd be well within the guidelines if they were to provide appropriate clothing, a heater or a couple of partition walls around the computer.

17.5 degrees will actually feel quite cold to most people who are more accustomed to indoor temps of around 20 degrees. Especially if there's a through-draft.

I'd ask them if you can get a wooden stud windbreak around the computer so that you're not getting the draft when the warehouse door opens.

C3PO wrote: »

Here's an interesting article which answers your question I think! http://www.mondaq.com/x/93196/employee+rights+labour+relations/Workplace+Temperatures

"In relation to sedentary office work, an employer must ensure that a minimum temperature of 17.5°C, so far as is reasonably practicable, is achieved and maintained at every workstation after the first hour's work. For other sedentary work, an employer must ensure that at every workstation where a substantial proportion of the work is done sitting and does not involve serious physical effort, a minimum temperature of 16°C is, so far as is reasonably practicable, achieved and maintained after the first hour's work."

Of course "reasonably practicable" is open to interpretation particularly given you're talking about an open warehouse!

Thanks for the suggestions re heaters, thermals etc.

But it's my employers legal requirements I'm interested in nailing down and on reading replies above from C3PO and seamus it would appear the warehouse bit combined with the nature of the work seem to make those requirements a bit of a grey area.

My interpretation of the situation is that my employer is not prepared to incur the cost of heating the warehouse as they have an exactly similar warehouse in another location with a much bigger number of workers that IS heated to a perfectly acceptable level. The nature of the work in this warehouse is the exact same as the warehouse I'm in.

So if fact they are treating one (larger) group of employees to much more comfortable and imo more acceptable working conditions that my group.

They're only concession is that basic jackets have been provided but absolutely nothing else.

intheclouds

Well well, then it definitely sounds like one group of employees is being discriminated against.

2RockMountain

OP, you should think about joining a union, if you're not already a member.

seamus

In terms of gloves that allow you to type, these would be a good bet;

http://www.wiggle.co.uk/dhb-roubaix-liner-glove/

They're designed to go inside other gloves, so they're thin enough to maintain dexterity, but still pretty warm on their own. Almost like wearing thermal latex gloves.


I use them on their own for running in sub-zero temperatures and they keep hands nice and toasty.

johnkieran1

2RockMountain wrote: »

OP, you should think about joining a union, if you're not already a member.

No union here. The majority of employees are on short term contracts (low skilled work, easily replaced) and most are let go after 2 years maximum.

RainyDay

johnkieran1 wrote: »

No union here. The majority of employees are on short term contracts (low skilled work, easily replaced) and most are let go after 2 years maximum.

All the more reason to join a union. The reason why there is no union there is because no-one joined a union.

Owryan

I worked in a warehouse with similar issues, no heating, freezing in winter etc.

Management didnt do anything so we (as a group) complained to the HSA. They sent an inspector out within a week of the complaint.

Forced the management to install heaters, curtains to reduce draughts from open doors, better insulation and also had to install a false roof. I cant remember the exact details but the company were served with a notice that they were in breach of h&s guidelines.

johnkieran1

Owryan wrote: »

I worked in a warehouse with similar issues, no heating, freezing in winter etc.

Management didnt do anything so we (as a group) complained to the HSA. They sent an inspector out within a week of the complaint.

Forced the management to install heaters, curtains to reduce draughts from open doors, better insulation and also had to install a false roof. I cant remember the exact details but the company were served with a notice that they were in breach of h&s guidelines.

That's very interesting. Can I ask what was the nature of the work that was being done in the warehouse? Was it sedentary (e.g at work stations) or was there an element of physical work?
From what I can determine this can be a kind of grey area where the company can wriggle out of providing heating.

my3cents

johnkieran1 wrote: »

That's very interesting. Can I ask what was the nature of the work that was being done in the warehouse? Was it sedentary (e.g at work stations) or was there an element of physical work?
From what I can determine this can be a kind of grey area where the company can wriggle out of providing heating.

Only way to find out is to report it or at least make an enquiry. I'd have thought having a lot of trailing leads under the desks in an office was a grey area but it was reported in one office I worked in and as a result the whole office had to be rewired.

Owryan

johnkieran1 wrote: »

That's very interesting. Can I ask what was the nature of the work that was being done in the warehouse? Was it sedentary (e.g at work stations) or was there an element of physical work?
From what I can determine this can be a kind of grey area where the company can wriggle out of providing heating.

It was a wholesalers. But because the checkout operaters were not in seperate area the company was found at fault.

listermint

Have you thought about approaching the management about building an office within the warehouse ? Worked in a place many moons ago. Where the warehouse manager just got it together and priced a stud wall and false roof behind the starewell area and it was just done.

Had a small heater in there too which made anyone who was working stationary at a computer desk comfortable.

Not huge money for 3 stud wall and a door.

Wanderer78

Full set of base layers, hat and fingerless gloves

johnkieran1

Owryan;101444225

johnkieran1 wrote: »

That's very interesting. Can I ask what was the nature of the work that was being done in the warehouse? Was it sedentary (e.g at work stations) or was there an element of physical work?
From what I can determine this can be a kind of grey area where the company can wriggle out of providing heating.

It was a wholesalers. But because the checkout operaters were not in seperate area the company was found at fault.

Thanks for the info Owryan. It has been very helpful.

johnkieran1

listermint wrote: »

Have you thought about approaching the management about building an office within the warehouse ? Worked in a place many moons ago. Where the warehouse manager just got it together and priced a stud wall and false roof behind the starewell area and it was just done.

Had a small heater in there too which made anyone who was working stationary at a computer desk comfortable.

Not huge money for 3 stud wall and a door.

Mgmt won't invest in the foot soldier employees if they can avoid it. They are not concerned if staff get pissed off and walk away. Low skilled jobs with a high staff turnover. They know they can easily replace anybody who leaves.

johnkieran1

RainyDay wrote: »

johnkieran1 wrote: »

No union here. The majority of employees are on short term contracts (low skilled work, easily replaced) and most are let go after 2 years maximum.

All the more reason to join a union. The reason why there is no union there is because no-one joined a union.

You need critical mass (numbers) to be able to get a union on board do you not? Too many employees on short term contracts and too much staff turnover to get it off the ground.