New Garda surveillance aircraft

jimbis

First I've heard of this. Does that mean the defenders time is up?

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/garda-to-target-criminal-gangs-with-spyinthesky-plane-35142385.html

robyntmorton

It reads like they are looking for an addition, not a replacement, but you never know with the quality of journalism that gives you this.

An Garda Siochana issued a tender for a censor-equipped aeroplane which they hope to add to their fleet of planes and helicopters in the Garda Air Support Unit.

Do we really need a censor on board? What will they do, blank out number plates?

Shannon757

Was it the Gardaí or Air Corps testing the Cessnas last year?

Negative_G

Shannon757 wrote: »

Was it the Gardaí or Air Corps testing the Cessnas last year?

It was the Air Corps, who also had the TBM and PC-12 visiting on other occasions.

I would be shocked if it was bought in addition to the existing GASU aircraft. It will be a replacement for the Defender in my opinion.

More details on the RFI below.

https://irl.eu-supply.com/app/rfq/publicpurchase_frameset.asp?PID=104001&B=ETENDERS_SIMPLE&PS=1&PP=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders

Keplar240B

Why don't they get drones?

kub

Keplar240B wrote: »

Why don't they get drones?

Probably because as reported today, they are 30 years behind,technology wise to other forces.

crosstownk

Dreadfully written article, imo.

......homeland security.... :rolleyes:

gctest50

Keplar240B wrote: »

Why don't they get drones?

be a big drone to carry all this sorta stuff

gctest50

gctest50 wrote: »

be a big drone to carry all this

Most of the space is for people and the control and interpretation parts. No reason that couldn't be done on the ground.

L1011

Deleted User wrote: »

Most of the space is for people and the control and interpretation parts. No reason that couldn't be done on the ground.

Drones don't have the endurance required

The bandwidth required to throw that level of info down to the ground in real time is immense and would raise huge data security issues. Remember that efficient video compression is not real time and hence useless for starters in a scenario like this.

martinsvi

drones lack endurance/range suitable for surveillance operations, they're good for inner-city tasks and monitoring, but are useless in following/tracking-tracing operations.

BN-Defender was out tonight in Baldonnel doing touch and go's, so training is still on going for it.. although I do have a feeling that Air Corps might be using it as a stepping stone for CASA

pepe the prawn

Am I right in saying that the defenders callsign is Papa 254?

Oscar Bravo

spot on, Papa 254

pepe the prawn

It was in Cork this evening, shot an approach and headed to Waterford afterwards, passed 500' below me enroute. Must have been out doing some training.

Negative_G

martinsvi wrote: »

although I do have a feeling that Air Corps might be using it as a stepping stone for CASA

The Defender is primarily a single pilot operation. The Casa is obviously a two pilot operation. It most certainly is not used as a "stepping stone" towards the Casa.

A multi engine single pilot aircraft with very limited performance is not a good environment for an inexperienced pilot fresh from receiving their wings.

While the aircraft might be maintained and flown by the Air Corps. The aircraft belongs to the Dept of Justice and you can be sure it's use is monitored accordingly.

Mech1

No problem with the endurance or range of drones.
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-begins-hurricane-mission-with-global-hawk-flight-to-cristobal

L1011

Mech1 wrote: »

No problem with the endurance or range of drones.
https://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nasa-begins-hurricane-mission-with-global-hawk-flight-to-cristobal

High altitude, low load. Neither match what the Defender is used for.

Mech1

We never like to go Daily Mail in here, but:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245446/Military-style-spy-planes-used-target-civilians-UK.html

gctest50

L1011 wrote: »

High altitude, low load. Neither match what the Defender is used for.

These are the drones ya need :

arubex

L1011 wrote: »

High altitude, low load. Neither match what the Defender is used for.

RQ-4B has a mission payload of 1.6 tonnes, which is neatly double of what the Defender 4000 can carry with full fuel-tanks.

But it's overkill for the Gardai. They could easily select a mid-tier turboprop UAV with 400kg* payload and 12 to 20 hours endurance, but would have to overcome the strange anti-UAV sentiment that also seems to prevail on this forum.


* once you take-out the weight of the Defender's crew you've immediately saved 400kg

PukkaStukka

One of my work colleagues quipped that a drone would ideal for surveillance working in Dublin on the basis that drones resonate at the same frequency as skangers, thereby allowing them to blend in perfectly with ambient noise

faoiarvok

I'm open to correction, but I imagine the cost of support services, communications infrastructure, etc. for a single drone is similar to ongoing costs for a manned aircraft. My guess is you only make real savings with multiple unmanned aircraft.

Again, I have no expertise here, just a guess.

Pat Dunne

I had a good read through the specifications below

An Garda Síochána (AGS) [Irish Civil Police Force] operates a diversified fleet of aircraft to detect and deter crime, and mitigate threats to our homeland from acts of terrorism, drug smuggling and other unlawful activities. Currently, various aircraft are utilized to perform the airborne tracker, ground surveillance and air/ground interdiction missions. To improve mission effectiveness and resource flexibility, AGS wishes to explore the feasibility and practicality of using a sensor-equipped Fixed Wing Aircraft (FWA) that can effectively perform these types of missions. AGS is seeking information on commercially available aircraft that could be configured to satisfy all or a large portion of the general requirements stated below. The configuration should emphasize the ground surveillance missions; however, design flexibility is needed to support ancillary missions such as airborne tracker, logistical support and signal intelligence collection. In the interest of accountability and oversight, AGS intends to award a contract to a prime contractor for the end product (aircraft and integrated mission equipment).

The spec are quite open ended and simply requires "a sensor-equipped Fixed Wing Aircraft". So basically it is up to all the various manufactures, of both manned and unmanned commercially available aircraft to access whether their product is suitable.