Campsite Owners

Glastonut

Open letter:
http://www.motorhomecraic.com/forum/topic.php?t=12939

Alkers

Where have you found campsite owners to be against motorhomes? Genuine query, I've never heard of it.
Have you tried asking a campsite to empty your tanks and fill up on water before? I can't imagine they would say no?

Stoogie

Are you looking for reduced rates for motorhomes?

Glastonut

Simona1986 wrote: »

Where have you found campsite owners to be against motorhomes? Genuine query, I've never heard of it.
Have you tried asking a campsite to empty your tanks and fill up on water before? I can't imagine they would say no?

http://www.motorhomecraic.com/forum/topic.php?t=12895

Glastonut

Stoogie wrote: »

Are you looking for reduced rates for motorhomes?

Yes, but not for an overnight stay. To service a Motorhome only, which has been refused on many campsites.

Stoogie

If it was me I'd been writing to the likes of apple green looking for services to be put in
They could charge a small fee and and would get your business with snacks and fuel as well
The campsite owners are looking at what they could get if you were camping there and missing the new trick
It reminds me of the tyre guys that won't fit Internet tyres and the new tyre guys that do it for a tenner a corner all day long, it's a new world.

pastense

The refusal to acknowledge that Camper Vans and Motorhomes are entirely different to Caravans is a decision which is taken in their own economic interest. It's the Irish way. I often wonder what the Continental visitors with their Vans tell their friends when they go back home. I'd imagine the comments on the campsites aren't very complimentary about the prices versus the value compared to most of the rest of Europe.
But it has to be said that people have no right, and shouldn't have any expectation, of being allowed to use the facilities of a campsite without paying their published charge which is usually for an overnight.

niloc1951

pastense wrote: »

The refusal to acknowledge that Camper Vans and Motorhomes are entirely different to Caravans is a decision which is taken in their own economic interest. It's the Irish way. I often wonder what the Continental visitors with their Vans tell their friends when they go back home. I'd imagine the comments on the campsites aren't very complimentary about the prices versus the value compared to most of the rest of Europe.
But it has to be said that people have no right, and shouldn't have any expectation, of being allowed to use the facilities of a campsite without paying their published charge which is usually for an overnight.

Yes, but in Europe it is not uncommon for camp sites to have access to their service bay for passing motorhomes listed as a separate item in their list of published charges

pastense

niloc1951 wrote: »

Yes, but in Europe it is not uncommon for camp sites to have access to their service bay for passing motorhomes listed as a separate item in their list of published charges

I agree entirely and it would be great if it was the way here but I'd suggest to you that the campsite owners would consider that to be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. When they can get you for a full night charge by not offering something you need at a lower charge.
France it's not and never will be unfortunately.

niloc1951

pastense wrote: »

I agree entirely and it would be great if it was the way here but I'd suggest to you that the campsite owners would consider that to be like cutting off their nose to spite their face. When they can get you for a full night charge by not offering something you need at a lower charge.
France it's not and never will be unfortunately.

That said, how successful is that policy, many motorhome users simply find other ways of fulfilling their service requirements while continuing to use motorhome parking areas which are devoid of service bays.
There are public toilets where it is possible to discreetly empty a cassette, water taps available in service stations (ask to use them while buying fuel) and other places and I've seen grey water emptied down a roadside storm drain.

€3/€5 for services is better than nothing.

Stoogie

niloc1951 wrote: »

That said, how successful is that policy, many motorhome users simply find other ways of fulfilling their service requirements while continuing to use motorhome parking areas which are devoid of service bays.
There are public toilets where it is possible to discreetly empty a cassette, water taps available in service stations (ask to use them while buying fuel) and other places and I've seen grey water emptied down a roadside storm drain.

€3/€5 for services is better than nothing.

So just formalise this behaviour with the service stations and ignore the campsites unless you want to stay there.

crabbypaddy

niloc1951 wrote: »

Yes, but in Europe it is not uncommon for camp sites to have access to their service bay for passing motorhomes listed as a separate item in their list of published charges

They'd probably have to have and enormous septic system addon to offer that service officially though the EPA regs are bananas our friends work for a charity that has a large building which on average houses 5-8 people 8-10 hors per day, but because they occasionally hold events in the building they were required to size the septic system for 30 people fulltime occupancy cost an absolute arm and a leg.

niloc1951

crabbypaddy wrote: »

They'd probably have to have and enormous septic system addon to offer that service officially though the EPA regs are bananas our friends work for a charity that has a large building which on average houses 5-8 people 8-10 hors per day, but because they occasionally hold events in the building they were required to size the septic system for 30 people fulltime occupancy cost an absolute arm and a leg.

For those not on a public foul sewer system why would their existing septic tank or treatment system be insufficient.
It's not as if they would have to provide service for a queue of American RV's all day pumping out thousands of litres from their huge holding tanks :eek:
European motorhomes only have little 17 litre tanks, not much more than one flush of a regular old fashioned toilet.

niloc1951

niloc1951 wrote: »

It's not as if they would have to provide service for a queue of American RV's all day pumping out thousands of litres from their huge holding tanks :eek:
.

Wow, engineered dead weight...the mind boggles

crabbypaddy

niloc1951 wrote: »

For those not on a public foul sewer system why would their existing septic tank or treatment system be insufficient.
It's not as if they would have to provide service for a queue of American RV's all day pumping out thousands of litres from their huge holding tanks :eek:
European motorhomes only have little 17 litre tanks, not much more than one flush of a regular old fashioned toilet.

Septic tanks are sized on the *potential* population which I assume would be estimated in a campsite from the number of pitches. Campsite owner in Clare was telling me the EPA got involved in his septic tank sizing and it ended up costing €80,000, you can imagine how much bigger it would be if they factored in 'potential population' of people just emptying their tanks.

Its the solids you have to think about. Average toilet flush is 9l of water, average thetford flush is 270ml according to their estimates. So that 17 liter tank contains 33 times more solids per liter.

niloc1951

crabbypaddy wrote: »

Septic tanks are sized on the *potential* population which I assume would be estimated in a campsite from the number of pitches. Campsite owner in Clare was telling me the EPA got involved in his septic tank sizing and it ended up costing €80,000, you can imagine how much bigger it would be if they factored in 'potential population' of people just emptying their tanks.

Its the solids you have to think about. Average toilet flush is 9l of water, average thetford flush is 270ml according to their estimates. So that 17 liter tank contains 33 times more solids per liter.

So your saying is that if the campsite owners had their way and off-site overnight parking was banned and all motorhomes had to overnight on their sites they currently have insufficient infrastructure to provide black and grey water services for all clients.

The had better be careful what they are wishing for so.

crabbypaddy

niloc1951 wrote: »

So your saying is that if the campsite owners had their way and off-site overnight parking was banned and all motorhomes had to overnight on their sites they currently have insufficient infrastructure to provide black and grey water services for all clients.

The had better be careful what they are wishing for so.

No they have a total excess capacity as it is fore the real world. The potential population is a totally unrealistic number the EPA would say something along the lines of whats the maximum number of pitches, whats the maximum number of people per pitch - multiply those together to achieve a totally unrealistic potential population.

If they were to add an imaginary number of motorhomes coming to empty cassettes, factor in solids loading etc. the enlargement required might never pay for itself so I can't see them doing it.

niloc1951

crabbypaddy wrote: »

No they have a total excess capacity as it is fore the real world. The potential population is a totally unrealistic number the EPA would say something along the lines of whats the maximum number of pitches, whats the maximum number of people per pitch - multiply those together to achieve a totally unrealistic potential population.

If they were to add an imaginary number of motorhomes coming to empty cassettes, factor in solids loading etc. the enlargement required might never pay for itself so I can't see them doing it.

If the sites capability is in line with the parameters you mention it follows that either there is space for all touring motorhomes or the number is in excess of the space available and alternative off site parking is legitimate requirement on the basis that there is 'no room at the inn'. If it's the former then whether its passing motorhomes or resident motorhomes it should make no difference, if it's the latter then Ireland has an infrastructure deficit which could be addressed by local authorities as is done in Europe.

Also you seem to be saying unrealistic requirements from the EPA are a roadblock to providing the service, if the campsites have an interest in following the example of their counterparts in Europe then they should start by challenging those EPA requirements.
If what you say is correct it looks like unrealistic Environmental Protection Agency policy is contributing directly to the reported examples of the disposal of grey and black water in an unenvironmentally friendly manner.

The whole argument against the provision of services to passing motorhomes is a load of whats in the cassettes if you ask me

my3cents

crabbypaddy wrote: »

Septic tanks are sized on the *potential* population which I assume would be estimated in a campsite from the number of pitches. Campsite owner in Clare was telling me the EPA got involved in his septic tank sizing and it ended up costing €80,000, you can imagine how much bigger it would be if they factored in 'potential population' of people just emptying their tanks.

Its the solids you have to think about. Average toilet flush is 9l of water, average thetford flush is 270ml according to their estimates. So that 17 liter tank contains 33 times more solids per liter.

Which is all bullsh!t when the campsite empties its septic tanks on nearby farmland as does the campsite near us.

Macy0161

Couldn't the campsites just limit availability of emptying, based on campsite occupancy and number of campers emptied so far that day? If that's a real issue (which it isn't). Well the issue of the EPA requirements may be real, but if campsites were full they wouldn't be so anti motorhomes having other options. Turning away people for emptying is no different from turning away people from camping.*

*Given some campsites charge for hot water in campers kitchen, on top of showers, I doubt they'd be turning away many. Very few will take a card either, and want cash only.

*Kol*

Should that letter not be to companies such as topaz, Applegreen etc? It seems strange to be approaching businesses that the writer of the letter has no intention of using. it would be more conveniently accessible and widespread than campsites, and you can fill diesel and do a bit of shopping at the same time. Probably more likely to happen too.

bridster007

Why on earth would a campsite owner take on the hassle of allowing unknown campers onto their sites to offload sewage for €3.50 ?
Ludicrous idea.

reelkidmusic

bridster007 wrote: »

Why on earth would a campsite owner take on the hassle of allowing unknown campers onto their sites to offload sewage for 3.50 ?
Ludicrous idea.

There is a remote possibility that you would decide to stay having pulled in. Once you get a look at the place, you might decide to spend a night in the area. Or if you didn't stay, you might come back another night or recommend to a friend.

niloc1951

bridster007 wrote: »

Why on earth would a campsite owner take on the hassle of allowing unknown campers onto their sites to offload sewage for €3.50 ?
Ludicrous idea.

Perhaps the question should be directed to those campsite owners/operators across Europe who provide the service.
There must be some return from it otherwise why would the be doing it

Martin_D

niloc1951 wrote: »

Perhaps the question should be directed to those campsite owners/operators across Europe who provide the service.
There must be some return from it otherwise why would the be doing it

...and perhaps the outlay already incurred in putting in foul drainage, sewage systems etc would be defrayed with the added income and eventually give a profit. The anti-camper stance adopted appears to blind operators to any rational assessment of potential income sources.

Del2005

Martin_D wrote: »

...and perhaps the outlay already incurred in putting in foul drainage, sewage systems etc would be defrayed with the added income and eventually give a profit. The anti-camper stance adopted appears to blind operators to any rational assessment of potential income sources.

I'd say it's more our crazy insurance premiums and litigious nature. I was in a town in rural France a couple of years ago and it was getting it's main street redone. All the surface had been lifted and we where walking on rough gravel with boards going into the shops across culverts and manholes sitting proud. In Ireland it would be open season for claims over there everyone managed fine.

pastense

Owning and using a Motorhome or Camper Van in Ireland will never be the same as it would be in France. Probably why so many spend as much time over there as they possibly can. May be one of the reasons why it's seen here mainly as a retired persons thing whereas in France and the Continent in general it's popular with all age groups including young families. Of course the popularity leads to wide availability of vans at all price ranges which enterprising people will provide facilities for to help boost their income.