National Flight Centre

1123heavy

Hey guys/gals,

I'm aware there are previous threads here about the NFC with a lot of info, I have read them all but in most cases the info is a few years old and I'm looking for more up to date information. Basically as some may be aware from my username, I recently applied for the aer lingus cadetship and made it to the last 70 where I was told I wouldn't be taken any further. After the initial disappointment I've picked myself back up and am looking into other options to become a pilot. Living in Dublin, and not having the finances available to go FTE/OAA/CTC, the NFC is a favourable option for me.

Has anyone been to the school, or had any dealings (done a course etc) with the school in recent times? If so, is it still as good and reputable within the industry as it once was? And essentially, would you recommend to someone to go there? I do understand that these opinions can depend on many variables, but I just want to hear from people who aren't trying to sell me the course ...

I understand that the industry seems to be on the up at the moment with Ryanair recently announcing huge expansion plans and with cityjet and stobart also actively hiring things seem to not be too bad and the risk is somewhat mitigated by this. However aviation being aviation ... I do understand it can all change in a flash, but life is full of risks eh ....

All opinions, views, recommendations welcome, thanks

martinsvi

are you looking at a modular or integrated route? Neither are very good value in my opinion - 79k for an integrated must be some sort of a joke for a school that has 0 ties with any airlines.. As for a modular route, their PPL is some 3-4k more expensive than others, CPL/ME/IR is priced somewhat competitively at 25k.

Other points are - instructors seem to not hold on to a job there for very long and their customer services is appalling

1123heavy

martinsvi wrote: »

are you looking at a modular or integrated route? Neither are very good value in my opinion - 79k for an integrated must be some sort of a joke for a school that has 0 ties with any airlines.. As for a modular route, their PPL is some 3-4k more expensive than others, CPL/ME/IR is priced somewhat competitively at 25k.

Other points are - instructors seem to not hold on to a job there for very long and their customer services is appalling

Thanks for the info martinsvi,

Personally I'd be looking at the modular route so I can work and pay for it at the same time. That comes in at about 60,000eu which seems somewhat reasonable.

It's also stuff like the other items you mentioned that I'd obviously never get in a sales pitch so thanks for the insight on that side of things.

I have noticed their hourly rate to be 217 eu which does seem a bit expensive, stapleford in essex charge £115 an hour in a c152, and with the current exchange rates that's about 125 eu, so some savings to be made there.

martinsvi

don't forget to add landing and touch and go fees to that 217 eur. NFC have some form of a deal where they charge "only" 6 eur for a full stop and I think it was 3 eur for a touch and go (as to 20/10 eur or whatever it was for everyone else) That means when you're starting your circuit training, you can easily do 8-9 touch and go's per lesson, adding some 30 euro on top

as with everything, try before buy - you never know, the impressions and experience that I have may not match yours.. but be aware, guys in ops do like to talk utter rubbish against other schools and they can be very convincing that the NFC is the ONLY proper place to train.

Also don't ever pay anything upfront. Much like Flightwise, NFC on the paper own nothing but a single C152.. rest of the fleet belong to Kieran O'Connor, if NFC goes under -you're not getting anything back

Here's what I'm doing anyway - got my PPL in EINC, also doing my hour building there, Night Rating at Waterford - can't be beaten for value but tad bit inconvenient as EIWF close for the night quite early.

ATPLs with Bristol - you need to take time off from work anyway as there will be 3x week long revision courses before you can do your writtens. A flight to Bristol with Ryanair costs nothing, B&Bs are cheap, as a school they're competitively priced etc. Overall if it wasn't for screw-ups with CAA and their question bank quality, I would highly recommend it.

Next stop CPL/ME/IR, hopefully with my ATPLs done - spring time next year. Everyone I talk to says you can't really combine work with studies for this part unless you drag it out which introduces significant cost penalty. So if I'm taking time off, the priority then is to make sure I get continuous tuition with very little delay. That means it probably wont be Ireland. As much as I'd love to train at AFTA, cadets there take 3-4 months to finish their CPL/ME/IR.. AFTA are expensive as they are but if I have to loose my income for that long, that's a showstopper for me - if you can afford it - go for it, their cadet employment ratios are fantastic and ties with airlines help.

A lot of that has to do with the weather. You can get CPL/ME/IR done in reputable schools over the continent for around 23-25k in 8-9 weeks. Now that's a lot closer to my budget and being without income for a shorter period of time, with cheaper accommodation, cheaper food etc, that plan becomes very realistic and achievable

that's me anyway, what works for one doesn't work for someone else. Main points are - go try out a couple of clubs around, see what they're like, take one step at a time and don't rush into anything. This ordeal requires a huge amount of patience, commitment etc

1123heavy

martinsvi wrote: »

don't forget to add landing and touch and go fees to that 217 eur. NFC have some form of a deal where they charge "only" 6 eur for a full stop and I think it was 3 eur for a touch and go (as to 20/10 eur or whatever it was for everyone else) That means when you're starting your circuit training, you can easily do 8-9 touch and go's per lesson, adding some 30 euro on top

as with everything, try before buy - you never know, the impressions and experience that I have may not match yours.. but be aware, guys in ops do like to talk utter rubbish against other schools and they can be very convincing that the NFC is the ONLY proper place to train.

Also don't ever pay anything upfront. Much like Flightwise, NFC on the paper own nothing but a single C152.. rest of the fleet belong to Kieran O'Connor, if NFC goes under -you're not getting anything back

Here's what I'm doing anyway - got my PPL in EINC, also doing my hour building there, Night Rating at Waterford - can't be beaten for value but tad bit inconvenient as EIWF close for the night quite early.

ATPLs with Bristol - you need to take time off from work anyway as there will be 3x week long revision courses before you can do your writtens. A flight to Bristol with Ryanair costs nothing, B&Bs are cheap, as a school they're competitively priced etc. Overall if it wasn't for screw-ups with CAA and their question bank quality, I would highly recommend it.

Next stop CPL/ME/IR, hopefully with my ATPLs done - spring time next year. Everyone I talk to says you can't really combine work with studies for this part unless you drag it out which introduces significant cost penalty. So if I'm taking time off, the priority then is to make sure I get continuous tuition with very little delay. That means it probably wont be Ireland. As much as I'd love to train at AFTA, cadets there take 3-4 months to finish their CPL/ME/IR.. AFTA are expensive as they are but if I have to loose my income for that long, that's a showstopper for me - if you can afford it - go for it, their cadet employment ratios are fantastic and ties with airlines help.

A lot of that has to do with the weather. You can get CPL/ME/IR done in reputable schools over the continent for around 23-25k in 8-9 weeks. Now that's a lot closer to my budget and being without income for a shorter period of time, with cheaper accommodation, cheaper food etc, that plan becomes very realistic and achievable

that's me anyway, what works for one doesn't work for someone else. Main points are - go try out a couple of clubs around, see what they're like, take one step at a time and don't rush into anything. This ordeal requires a huge amount of patience, commitment etc

"ordeal" certainly is the correct way of putting it !

The issue for me is that I won't be able to stop work (this is the only way I can afford to pay) and going across the continent for months on end will be an issue in that regard. The UK for a short while should be fine however.

A quick query I have is whether or not you've heard about training in different schools and what airlines make of it? From what I've been told before (not my own words), airlines don't particularly look favourably upon this and like consistency at one school for the bulk of the training.

I know Atlantic in cork claim to have airline connections, but do they really? From what I've witnessed they just have a lot of current/ex airline pilots and do the air astana cadet programme i think? I'm just cautious of any airline connections schools claim to have.

martinsvi

1123heavy wrote: »

"ordeal" certainly is the correct way of putting it !

The issue for me is that I won't be able to stop work (this is the only way I can afford to pay) and going across the continent for months on end will be an issue in that regard. The UK for a short while should be fine however.

A quick query I have is whether or not you've heard about training in different schools and what airlines make of it? From what I've been told before (not my own words), airlines don't particularly look favourably upon this and like consistency at one school for the bulk of the training.

I know Atlantic in cork claim to have airline connections, but do they really? From what I've witnessed they just have a lot of current/ex airline pilots and do the air astana cadet programme i think? I'm just cautious of any airline connections schools claim to have.

start your PPL locally and the answers will come to you as you go. The whole joy of modular course is that you can pick and combine courses as you wish. I really don't think airlines care - skills test is the same for everyone. What really matters is the quality of the MCC course at the end. Lucky for us, Simtech in Dublin is considered one of the best in business, let's hope it stays that way

AFTA are producing 75 cadets a year (Turkish/Astana guys included AFAIK) and this year they are sending 30 of non-tagged individuals to Norwegian. Similar numbers are expected next year. The connection is there and it's working. Some guys also went to Ryanair this summer, just not sure how much it had to do with AFTA. Obviously it all comes down to the individual. If you're crap anyway, no ties will get you the job.. as they say - the opportunities exist for the right candidates ...

if we look at the output of FTE/OAA/CTC - they produce 650 candidates a year, add AFTA which is the 4th biggest in Europe with 75, a couple of UK schools worth mentioning, Bartolini, Diamond etc, you probably have just over 1200-1400 cadets per year.. with Ryanair needing 1000 of them next year, EasyJet another 400 that's them all tagged and gone.. if the situation continues to be as positive, I'm sure we'll hear more and more schools demonstrating real cases of their cadets walking straight into jobs.

But if history has taught us anything, it's that this sort of drive never lasts for too long, so for the likes of me approaching my thirties it's now or never

zuutroy

Did my PPL there over the summer. Very good imo, my instructor was excellent, but I can't help you with the professional training end of things.

donkey balls

Two of my mates did their MEIR with NFC a few years ago and had no complaints with them, As for the modular v intergrated argument the lads I know working for FR and one for BA did their training modular.
Rumour is EI like lads who did it the intergrated way with the likes of Jerez etc, I don't know if its actually true as I don't know anyone flying for them.

1123heavy

donkey balls wrote: »

Two of my mates did their MEIR with NFC a few years ago and had no complaints with them, As for the modular v intergrated argument the lads I know working for FR and one for BA did their training modular.
Rumour is EI like lads who did it the intergrated way with the likes of Jerez etc, I don't know if its actually true as I don't know anyone flying for them.

To put it in the words of a pilot colleague of mine ... "Aer Lingus don't know what they want".

Now obviously they have a particular profile they want, but he was referring to the fact that two seemingly perfect candidates who would fit the profile of an EI pilot get rejected, meanwhile they'll go and get contractors. They are a confusing one from what I've seen anyway.

I did some linkedin stalking of EI pilots and looking through their backgrounds, it certainly does seem that the vast majority have integrated backgrounds at the likes of Jerez and OAA in particular. There are some modular guys who trained at the likes of the NFC but one can't really tell if that was on merit or if a few phone calls were made behind the scene for those to get in.

Thanks all for the info, all seems good other than some over pricing here and there, I'd love to know what the airlines think of them !

martinsvi

Aer Lingus have been, reportedly, fairly democratic in inviting attendees to their selection process from all sorts of backgrounds (for direct entry possitions) but I know a few modular guys who simply failed their aptitude tests - they where using some sort of a mathematical reasoning test with some geometry involved, and as the rumor mill has it - some candidates seemed better prepared than others as if they knew what was coming and have done them before

but maybe that's just someone sour talking porkies.. honestly I've come to a conclusion - talk to everyone, believe no-one..