Ryanair Aircraft swaps in winter

devnull

Something I always wondered, why do Ryanair swap aircraft a lot more often in the winter, I'm not talking swapping an out of service aircraft to an in service aircraft, but swapping two aircraft that arrive around the same time.

For instance Ei-DWI flew DUB-BCN last night and EI-ENP flew TFS-BCN, however both return workings were an hour late as they swapped the aircraft and both got delayed because of it, I thought it might be for maintenance reasons but FR24 shows that both aircraft are operating in full today from first flight.

JCX BXC

This wouldn't be considered the Winter Season yet, not until the start of November in terms of scheduling.

Irish Steve

Could have been something as simple as a minor repair that needed spares that were not available at the outstation, so it was simpler to swap the aircraft over to get back to a main base, or there could be other work scheduled that made the swap necessary for technical reasons. While there is line maintenance at the outstations, there is not the same level of "swap" capability, so some jobs are just easier at a main base.

In theory, swapping aircraft in this way shouldn't mean a delay though, unless there was something else going on that we're not aware of, perhaps a minor fault on both aircraft that then meant a late change that required moving bags to different stands, and maybe non availability of handling crews as a result. Without being there, it's hard to second guess exactly what went on.

devnull

Irish Steve wrote: »

Could have been something as simple as a minor repair that needed spares that were not available at the outstation, so it was simpler to swap the aircraft over to get back to a main base, or there could be other work scheduled that made the swap necessary for technical reasons. While there is line maintenance at the outstations, there is not the same level of "swap" capability, so some jobs are just easier at a main base.

In theory, swapping aircraft in this way shouldn't mean a delay though, unless there was something else going on that we're not aware of, perhaps a minor fault on both aircraft that then meant a late change that required moving bags to different stands, and maybe non availability of handling crews as a result. Without being there, it's hard to second guess exactly what went on.

Thing about Barcelona is they use air-bridges which slows things down even if everything is going to plan, getting on and off planes there takes forever when I have ever been there.

EI-DWI arrives BCN 9 minutes late (21:09) and EI-ENP landed 18 minutes early at 20:27. Then EI-ENP left for Dub at 22:20 (45 minutes late) and EI-DWI left 22:16 which was 50 minutes late so they both lost time because of the aircraft change.

billie1b

Over night maintenance in DUB, tyres and brakes changes etc etc.
Winter schedule is 01st OCT to 31st MAR
Summer schedule is 01st APR to 30th SEPT

JCX BXC

billie1b wrote: »

Over night maintenance in DUB, tyres and brakes changes etc etc.
Winter schedule is 01st OCT to 31st MAR
Summer schedule is 01st APR to 30th SEPT

I thought it was NOV not OCT?

billie1b

Carnacalla wrote: »

I thought it was NOV not OCT?

No has always been OCT to MAR - MAR to SEPT for the last 14 years i've been there, may have been different before that.

JCX BXC

billie1b wrote: »

No has always been OCT to MAR - MAR to SEPT for the last 14 years i've been there, may have been different before that.

Fair enough. Summer routes generally run to November with Ryanair so was wondering.

TheCockpitGuy

I think it's been established that someone with 14 years experience working for Ryanair might actually know what they are talking about.

JCX BXC

TheCockpitGuy wrote: »

I think it's been established that someone with 14 years experience working for Ryanair might actually know what they are talking about.

Did I doubt that? Not one bit.

Why is it every time I ask for a clarification I seem to get abuse on here? Ridiculous.

IngazZagni

devnull wrote: »

EI-DWI arrives BCN 9 minutes late (21:09) and EI-ENP landed 18 minutes early at 20:27. Then EI-ENP left for Dub at 22:20 (45 minutes late) and EI-DWI left 22:16 which was 50 minutes late so they both lost time because of the aircraft change.

You are probably referring to take off time and not push back time. In BCN taxi time from the Terminal 2 can take upwards of 20 minutes. This plus BCN is rife with ATC takeof slots which delays aircraft even more.

billie1b wrote: »

Carnacalla wrote: »

I thought it was NOV not OCT?

No has always been OCT to MAR - MAR to SEPT for the last 14 years i've been there, may have been different before that.

Are you sure Billie? I mean the summer seasonal bases such as ZAD and IBZ stay open until the first week of November. The majority of summer seasonal routes excluding peak summer routes run until the first week of Novermber too. Winter seasonal routes from the Canaries don't begin until the last couple of days of October.

As with everything else. I think people have clarified it. There are a massive number of reasons for doing this.

highlydebased

Just from observing FR24 and the like, some aircraft seem to be swapped at outstations on the same flight numbers every week on a particular day

Jamie2k9

Maintenance schedules can be differ to actual flight schedules (i.e. clock change dates where they fully officially start).

Remember aircraft are generally really maxed out 1 May-30 September with a lot more flexibility outside those dates.

Swaps shouldn't normally impact on flight operations.

bkehoe

Summer season starts when the clocks go forward and ends when the clocks go back. Often airlines will have a few weeks before and after where they ramp up (e.g. This year many airlines started summer schedules a little early mid March, due to an early Easter). Ryanair follows this method of defining summer/winter schedules pretty religiously and you will see changes in numbers of based aircraft and routes at many seasonal bases change at the beginning of November.

billie1b

There may be a couple of weeks before and after the APR start and SEPT finish but Ryanairs Summer schedule officially starts on the 01st of APR and Winter schedule officially on 01st of OCT.
People do say its when the clocks go forward and back but its an unofficial timing of it. I have it on paper somewhere in my folder, i'll try find it and post a picture.

*@carnacalla, I wasn't attacking you, I was just confirming it for you as to the way the airline I work for does its scheduling, sorry if offence was caused.

Tenger

I'll back up what billie said , EI a similar system was in place. That was a while back (ie. Double digits!!)
Last weekend of Oct was the start of the Winter schedule, which ran until last weekend of March. But some individual routes may start up/ramp up before or after those dates.
But the principal remains in place judging from what I see from the EI timetable.

JCX BXC

billie1b wrote: »

*@carnacalla, I wasn't attacking you, I was just confirming it for you as to the way the airline I work for does its scheduling, sorry if offence was caused.

Wasn't you Billie, you were perfectly courteous and explained the situation.

LXFlyer

Traditionally European airlines have always switched their schedules between winter and summer on the weekends of October and March when the British and Irish clocks change.

Back in the pre-Internet days, being a schedules geek, I used to visit all the airline offices in Dublin after those weekends picking up all of the new timetables to study them and see what was changing.

By and large that rule still stands for most airlines, with seasonal adjustments during the overall schedule periods.

But for most of their life Ryanair have (as far as I can recall) not conformed to this.

And as posted above they have different criteria.

And the other point is (which has been posted before) that airline timetables quote block to block times, i.e. Push back from departure stand to arrival on stand and engines shutting down.

Most websites (including FR24) quote the time the aircraft lands on the runway for arrivals and while this is correct for "flying time", it's not the official arrival time per the schedule as that will incorporate the time taxiing to the arrival stand and engines shutting down.

That's why numerous flights can quote the same departure time from the same airport in their schedules - it includes time for start-up, taxi, hold as well as flying time.

bkehoe

Tenger wrote: »

I'll back up what billie said in that when I was working in Operations with EI a similar system was in place.
Last weekend of Oct was the start of the Winter schedule, which ran until last weekend of March. But some individual routes may start up/ramp up before or after those dates. .

Unfortunately Billie is saying otherwise, I can assure you that what I posted before and what you agree with is correct to this day in FR. Of course many bases have fluctuations in capacity and based aircraft during the summer season, e.g. U.K. school holidays differing in Scotland/England and to those in Ireland mean some bases have extra aircraft for specific timeframes during the wider summer season so this may lead to a perception of 'summer schedules' ending sooner than they actually do.

If anyone doubts this then look at the timetables and see when the seasonal bases downsize or close for winter schedule. Check when U.K. domestic flights reduce for winter schedule, etc etc. Ask a FR pilot or cabin crew what winter leave months are.

JCX BXC

All Ryanair Shannon summer routes end in late October/ early November.

roundymac

devnull wrote: »

Something I always wondered, why do Ryanair swap aircraft a lot more often in the winter, I'm not talking swapping an out of service aircraft to an in service aircraft, but swapping two aircraft that arrive around the same time.

For instance Ei-DWI flew DUB-BCN last night and EI-ENP flew TFS-BCN, however both return workings were an hour late as they swapped the aircraft and both got delayed because of it, I thought it might be for maintenance reasons but FR24 shows that both aircraft are operating in full today from first flight.

EI regularly switch aircraft from Cork at LHR. One arives in from DUB at a ajoining gate and the crews simply swap aircraft. This aircraft can then fly back to DUB and get whatever check needs to be done to it without the need for deadheading.

devnull

Go look at a few registration on FR24 and see how many flights the planes are doing a day, there is certainly a reduction, planes were doing 8 flights a day at one point now 4-6 a day is more common and there has certainly been a reduction of frequency on routes I fly on since the start of October on Ryanair.

billie1b

bkehoe wrote: »

Unfortunately Billie is saying otherwise, I can assure you that what I posted before and what you agree with is correct to this day in FR. Of course many bases have fluctuations in capacity and based aircraft during the summer season, e.g. U.K. school holidays differing in Scotland/England and to those in Ireland mean some bases have extra aircraft for specific timeframes during the wider summer season so this may lead to a perception of 'summer schedules' ending sooner than they actually do.

If anyone doubts this then look at the timetables and see when the seasonal bases downsize or close for winter schedule. Check when U.K. domestic flights reduce for winter schedule, etc etc. Ask a FR pilot or cabin crew what winter leave months are.

Jesus lads my 3 year old child could grasp this better than most of ye, i'm not making it up, the 'official' winter schedule starts on 01st of OCT, it may take a couple of werks for changes to take place but thats the official start. When winter slots are applied for in Ryanair they are applied for from OCT 01st.
There no sich thing as winter leave months in Ryanair, a/l is from April 01st to Mar 31st and you are free to use it whenever you wish apart from the one month embargo from Dec 12th to Jan 12th.
This is the last time i'm posting about this as its just childish now.

JCX BXC

As a general note of Enquiry, does anyone know of a Seasonal route that terminated in Early October? They seem to generally terminate in August, September or Late October/Early November.

Let me give the example of Shannon

Paris Beauvais ends 8th November
Memmingen ends 29th October
Alicante ends 6th November
Majorca ends 6th November
Faro ends 7th Novemer

Kaunas last Sunday flight on 6th November (1pw in Winter, 2pw in Summer)
Gatwick loses a rotation for the winter from the 2nd November

On flight times:

Krakow's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Warsaw's time changes for the winter on the 30th October
Wroclaw's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Berlin's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Stansted time changes for the winter on the 30th October and loses 4 rotations from this date
Manchesters time changes for the winter on the 31st October

I really can't see in terms of Scheduling where this early October is coming from, could someone explain it to me? Thanks

LXFlyer

Carnacalla wrote: »

As a general note of Enquiry, does anyone know of a Seasonal route that terminated in Early October? They seem to generally terminate in August, September or Late October/Early November.

Let me give the example of Shannon

Paris Beauvais ends 8th November
Memmingen ends 29th October
Alicante ends 6th November
Majorca ends 6th November
Faro ends 7th Novemer

Kaunas last Sunday flight on 6th November (1pw in Winter, 2pw in Summer)
Gatwick loses a rotation for the winter from the 2nd November

On flight times:

Krakow's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Warsaw's time changes for the winter on the 30th October
Wroclaw's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Berlin's time changes for the winter on the 31st October
Stansted time changes for the winter on the 30th October and loses 4 rotations from this date
Manchesters time changes for the winter on the 31st October

I really can't see in terms of Scheduling where this early October is coming from, could someone explain it to me? Thanks

The Aer Lingus timetable changes at the end of October, but plenty of routes will have lost frequency beforehand and some will change afterwards.

While it is the main weekend, changes can and do take place at other times as demand dictates.

JCX BXC

lxflyer wrote: »

The Aer Lingus timetable changes at the end of October, but plenty of routes will have lost frequency beforehand and some will change afterwards.

While it is the main weekend, changes can and do take place at other times as demand dictates.

My routes were Ryanair, but I just can't understand why even though the schedule technically starts on the 1st of October, yet no schedule changes take effect until the end of October.

Also, why do Ryanair always load routes for the summer schedule until the end of October, when the winter schedule starts at the start of October? Later on some routes are extending into November.

LXFlyer

Carnacalla wrote: »

My routes were Ryanair, but I just can't understand why even though the schedule technically starts on the 1st of October, yet no schedule changes take effect until the end of October.

Also, why do Ryanair always load routes for the summer schedule until the end of October, when the winter schedule starts at the start of October? Later on some routes are extending into November.

I was citing Aer Lingus as an example of how services can change at other times.

Ryanair's network is huge - UK & Ireland slots will probably be more consistent with the October and March dates, but I suspect that if you go through all of the continental bases and look at them then you will see that the pattern emerging.

JCX BXC

lxflyer wrote: »

I was citing Aer Lingus as an example of how services can change at other times.

Ryanair's network is huge - UK & Ireland slots will probably be more consistent with the October and March dates, but I suspect that if you go through all of the continental bases and look at them then you will see that the pattern emerging.

I really can't.

The only evidence I can find is the table of fee's on the Ryanair website, which list the high season ending in October.

Almost all seasonal routes end in the end of October/Early November, and all slot time changes seem to take place at the end of October.