Why has Intercounty Senior Hurling always been so poor in Connacht and Ulster?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Excluding Galway obviously every county in those provinces have struggled since day one of the GAA to compete with Leinster and Munster counties.

You might say Antrim in Ulster have produced a few decent county teams but they've only made only two AI Finals in their history and were soundly beaten in both.

Some say it's the do with the better land down south, and this is why the likes of Cork, KK and Tipp became so dominant from the outset. KK have 36 AI titles, Cork 30 and Tipp 27. The next nearest are Limerick at 7.

It's a shame really how the game never took strong in all four corners of the island.

Fr Tod Umptious

I always heard it was the land.

You needed big fields to play hurling in.

In Galway hurling is popular in the south and east of the county were the land is better.

topmanamillion

The land thing seems like a myth.
Every small village in the country has a GAA pitch so if the interest was there, the facilities are there to practice.
Also a lot of the hurling skills are better practiced in confined spaces.
Skills like catching and stick work are better practiced against a wall or in close contact with another person.

"In the north of the country a winter game, very similar to modern Scottish shinty, was played mainly on the ground with a narrow stick and a hard ball. The second form of the game, or Leinster hurling, was played with a broader hurley and a softer ball and was much more like the modern game."

That would lead me to believe "Leinster Hurling" grew in the south and stayed there.
There are very few true dual counties with a history of competing for honours in both codes, most likely because it's an extremely difficult thing to do.

That has led most counties to prioritise a code. Most have chosen football. It's extremely difficult to change that.
It's like trying to introduce football into Kilkenny.

Hurling is a bit more expensive to play than football with the extra gear required. So that's another factor that goes against it.

Hulk Hands

The land thing is interesting. The land is better in East Clare (hurling) than West Clare (Football) I think? Whats the difference between west Cork and the rest of Cork? South Tipp is the football stronghold I think, so that would be another one?

DEFTLEFTHAND

Hulk Hands wrote: »

The land thing is interesting. The land is better in East Clare (hurling) than West Clare (Football) I think? Whats the difference between west Cork and the rest of Cork? South Tipp is the football stronghold I think, so that would be another one?

In Tipp though hurling has always been very strong in the North of the county.

South Tipp would traditionally be stronger in football, a good part of the Golden Vale region. Some of the best land in the country.

Hulk Hands

Fair enough, perhaps its nonsense

bit of a bogey

A lot of it comes down to history, culture and success breeding success. Whilst there does seem to be a connection to the best land, I don't think it is because hurling is suited to great land. However, one strong connection to the best of land is actually that a lot of it traces back to regions where wealthy English landlords would often be based.

Going back as far as the plantations, a lot of this land would be have been gifted to those who had served the British state. Many of which were former British soldiers where cricket was the preferred sport and would have had a lot of influence.

In the 19th century,cricket was actually one of the most popular sports in Ireland - in areas particular where dairy farming was prominent. At the turn of the century, there was a huge push with the establishment of the GAA and foreign sports were banned. Naturally, these areas in Tipp, Kilkenny, Clare, Cork and Waterford all turned to the most kin of sports being hurling.

Its actually very interesting to see this in some of weaker hurling counties where there are distinct pockets of hurling only areas in the likes of westmeath, Laois and kerry - a lot of which can be again linked to strong dairy and good farming land influence.

iDave

Why limit it to Ulster and Connacht? The game also strugglles in north Leinster.

Coillte_Bhoy

Deedsie wrote: »

And West Munster

Clare and Limerick

ProudDUB

iDave wrote: »

Why limit it to Ulster and Connacht? The game also strugglles in north Leinster.

Yep...and Meath and North Co Dublin have some of the best agricultural land in the country, as does Kildare. Dunno if they are deemed to be "north" Leinster though.

Bonniedog

Roscommon were decent enough in the early 80s. Seem to recall them beating Wexford in that centenary competition? They may also have beaten ourselves although only thing I remember about the "Battle of Athleague" was the pure savagery :-)

Topcat32

Bonniedog wrote: »

Roscommon were decent enough in the early 80s. Seem to recall them beating Wexford in that centenary competition? They may also have beaten ourselves although only thing I remember about the "Battle of Athleague" was the pure savagery :-)

A good few of that Roscommon team were actually Galway men from Ballygar I think.

Bonniedog

Topcat32 wrote: »

A good few of that Roscommon team were actually Galway men from Ballygar I think.

It was savage game. As in savage meaning vicious rather than good!

We were both in division 3 at time I think.

Nearly sure they beat Wexford not long after that. Last time we played them in Division Two about 8 years ago we beat them by something like 40 points. They have gone down a lot.



Just checked. They beat Wexford in first round. Knew I was not completely losing it :-)

ankles

There was an interesting documentary showing the strong link between hurling strongholds and where cricket used to be played. Very much linked to settled towns and garrison towns, where cricket was hugely popular up until the late nineteenth century. With the advent of the GAA, cultural nationalism and the ban, hurling effectively took over from cricket in those areas. And the addiction, similar to that of local cricket across England, has kept it right at the forefront in those strongholds. It is almost impossible for other counties to reach their standard due to the domination in their particular counties that hurling holds.

Bonniedog

ankles wrote: »

There was an interesting documentary showing the strong link between hurling strongholds and where cricket used to be played. Very much linked to settled towns and garrison towns, where cricket was hugely popular up until the late nineteenth century. With the advent of the GAA, cultural nationalism and the ban, hurling effectively took over from cricket in those areas. And the addiction, similar to that of local cricket across England, has kept it right at the forefront in those strongholds. It is almost impossible for other counties to reach their standard due to the domination in their particular counties that hurling holds.

Cricket was strong in north county Dublin but hurling was non existent. Indeed there was strong cross over between local gaelic football teams and cricket. Same still exists in Man o' War and Hills cricket team. I'd imagine south Meath was similar,

paul71

ProudDUB wrote: »

Yep...and Meath and North Co Dublin have some of the best agricultural land in the country, as does Kildare. Dunno if they are deemed to be "north" Leinster though.

And that is actually where north Leinsters traditional Hurling area is. If you run a triangle from Naas to Trim to Mullingar there are a lot of traditional Hurling clubs there. The issue is they are divided between 3 counties.

rossie1977

How many clubs even play hurling in those counties?

I know for a fact I never played hurling in primary school and probably only did once or twice in secondary school despite the fact that mayos finest ever hurler was our pe teacher..

arctictree

I think one of the big failings of the GAA is that strong hurlers in weaker counties cannot play for tier one teams while still being allowed to play for their home club/county.

I train a group of under 8s in a weaker county and its very sad to hear them talking about all the great players from Galway, Tipp etc and knowing that none of them will ever be allowed get to that level.

All it needs is a simple rule change to allow this but for some reason its not happening....