Lost Constructive Dismissal Case by two days

c0deblu2th

In 2014 I returned to my job after ten months of sick leave from stage 3 breast cancer. Delighted to be in recovery but suffered mobility difficulties as a result.

Wanted to work two/three full days but employer said I had to work five half days. Had full work load which meant no breaks and often finishing later. Never put in for extra salary.

After year and two months my partial capacity was stopped for 13 weeks. Then it dawned on me how much I was spending on taxis. Bus I used to get withdrawn.

Three times over the following year pleaded with her to allow me work three day week because of costs. Refused.

Rang Disability Authority, citizens info, workplace relation and then paid 200 euro to employment solicitors. All said I had no case for mediation and they were not doing anything wrong.

I joined union as I suspected they didn't want me there.

For two and half years I watched my colleagues go on holidays drive past me to and from work. I was paying out on taxis, expensive crappy walking shoes needed to fit orthotics and all weather gear.

I couldn't take it any longer and contacted the workplace relations again to ask would I be entitled to dole because of circumstances.

Turned out something I said without realising meant I had grounds for constructive dismissal all along.

I didn't want to go that route and thought when I gave notice they would reconsider. How wrong and rather than just accepting it replied stating how unfortunate I got cancer but not their problem.

In the meantime I had sent emails and left messages for union to contact me. The day I left she rang me all enthusiastic.

A few months later it was like meeting someone else so negative. What did I want. For nobody else to ever feel like they have to put up with what I did.

On day of case adjudicator was not very pleased with them. Have to admit two and half years surfaced up lot of anger and felt good to look boss in eye and let her have it.

Right til very end was winning until it is turned out I submitted my case two days before I left which meant I instantly lost on this technicality.

Afterwards union said they hoped dates wouldn't be mentioned. That was why she was so negative after that first call.

Should I be entitled to my union dues back? God knows I need it.

I

Wompa1

I don't think so.

I'm guessing when you took the job it was a 5 day week. I don't believe an employer is required to be flexible with your working schedule. Flexibility would be a perk or luxury, not an entitlement.

If you joined the union and liaised with them then I doubt you'll get your dues back.

I think you are in a no-win situation and you're best off cutting your losses and moving on.

c0deblu2th

In January and February was plagued by sickness and pain. As anyone who has had cancer knows when doctors are suspicious they work backwards and rule out recurrence before getting to cause. So its more scopes and xrays then worry, waiting and then relief.

It was because of what organization was about made me think can't go through another winter like this again.

I knew it was time to leave and began trying to get in the touch with union.

After several weeks and not hearing and first time in thirty five years working being in this situation I assumed they were not interested.

As stated was only worried about getting welfare sorted even though I had case. It was the response to my notice that immediately made my lose my fear of proceeding. The one getting perks was employer. Was still doing duties of full time and it cost them half in salary.

Unfortunately had I been advised would have won. When date arose at hearing she meekly said it was down to her.

Its buttons what I paid in but matter of principle. Wit or without case I was leaving because not only was it was cost me financially but was mortified because because of what they were given full funding from government to do.

Rekop dog

Your indignation seems to be a bit misplaced imo, probably understandable considering what you've been through. Don't think you ever had a strong case here, not many companies can overly loyal in these circumstances as they be setting a precedent that could be abused by others. Don't know who told you were winning the case up until the technicality but I imagine they said it to lesson the blow to you and help you deal with it as I doubt it's true.

c0deblu2th

Employer was still receiving full funding for my salary from government. Could have got job share in at any a stage.

Chose not to and began giving me additional work. It was costly but employment solicitor said I had right now to refuse as tasks was for her role. When she got job I helped by doing assistant managers job til she settled in. Eight years still doing duties and she was getting paid for it not me

I never complained as I loved working there. Final straw came when two employees permitted job share after third refusal.

Time to leave when prayers changed from please don't let cancer come back to please god don't let it rain tomorrow. Honestly!!!

That was basis for case. When doing research found that this and other organisation are the worst for supporting people with disabilities.

Even though I lost I felt empowered by looking them in eye and saying they were wrong. Would have been nice for law to agree.

Union said they won't look good either way.

Upsets me though to know there are others going through this but are not in a position to say no more I have had enough.

dixiefly

c0deblu2th wrote: »

In January and February was plagued by sickness and pain. As anyone who has had cancer knows when doctors are suspicious they work backwards and rule out recurrence before getting to cause. So its more scopes and xrays then worry, waiting and then relief.

It was because of what organization was about made me think can't go through another winter like this again.

I knew it was time to leave and began trying to get in the touch with union.

After several weeks and not hearing and first time in thirty five years working being in this situation I assumed they were not interested.

As stated was only worried about getting welfare sorted even though I had case. It was the response to my notice that immediately made my lose my fear of proceeding. The one getting perks was employer. Was still doing duties of full time and it cost them half in salary.

Unfortunately had I been advised would have won. When date arose at hearing she meekly said it was down to her.

Its buttons what I paid in but matter of principle. Wit or without case I was leaving because not only was it was cost me financially but was mortified because because of what they were given full funding from government to do.

What government funding? Was it to the company or the union? I am a bit lost.

I really feel for you OP, sometimes life is not fair and we come up against bosses who either dont care or take a dislike to some employees without foundation. I am sure that if you felt that yo could do your work on a 3 day week then that should have been tried at least. Your employer would have had a motivated employee and still probably be available through email etc on the off days.

Would it not have been possible to escalate the request above your manager to higher in the company or was it an SME?

c0deblu2th

The organisation is fully funded and board was voluntary. Appeals never got past chair who never submitted application to rest of board for them to discuss and decide. She was micro managing. She and manager kept rejecting my applications.

At hearing they put blame back on board and funders when on third refusal letter it stated the chair and I had meeting and say no.

Then said when I gave notice manager was away and did not give them time to discuss. I handed letter to manager personally and received acceptance letter within four days.

It was cringing to hear them even as complainant.

GingerLily

Without getting technical, can you explain what your grievance with your employer is?

Is it that they only offered you a 5 half day week rather then a 2 full day and one half day week?
Is it that you had to walk to work?

I'm really confused.

Stheno

Why did you lose your case if they admitted they were wrong?

Riskymove

Stheno wrote: »

Why did you lose your case if they admitted they were wrong?

She says that she filed the case before she actually left the job (2 days before) and lost the case on that technicality

c0deblu2th

Date I submitted case to workplace relations was two days before I left. That simple.

Based on full funding available for two years to hire another person to job share. Chose not to. Doing same job as when I was full time and always meeting deadlines so could not dismiss me. knew circumstances regarding mobility difficulties and impact it was having on me physically and financially. Not being given same opportunities as colleagues to bring case to board. Obvious being met with these obstacles and difficulties would force me to leave and it did.

I thought it's not worth bothering with CD case, as weight was lifted off my shoulders when I made up mind to leave. I recalled the words my mentor had told me when I started ten years ago.

"They're two types of people working in community services, the ones who want to be part of cause and others just for the money"

I could hold my head up and just walk away now at last.

All manager and chair had to do was accept my notice but even then couldn't resist one last opportunity to put the dig in.

It was this reply which made me proceed with case. Even though I didn't win it was nice to see them squirm. No amount of money could but that feeling. Lol!

Addle

What has you having to pay for taxis have to do with it?

Stheno

What are you trying to ask here? Are you looking to get back your union dues?

Or to pursue your company further?

c0deblu2th

One last thing, if you or anyone you know are having difficulties get assistance immediately. A lot of communities have free legal advice regarding employment law.

For ten years I watched how a stressful work environment can impact on people's lives leading to mental health breakd

Mr. Incognito

I work in the legal areana and Unions are a huge problem in Employer Litigation.

They are not legally trained, are not lawyers, do not have a right of audience before any other Court.

I have no idea why you would rely on a union rep for legal advice. That's what solicitors are for.

As for come back- no- you cant do anything. They are not professionals, they do not have professional insurance. They do not hold themselves out as lawyers.

It's not better than asking your mate in the pub to come along and represent you, and in most cases the lad in the pub would do better.

Broken Hearted Road

GingerLily wrote: »

Without getting technical, can you explain what your grievance with your employer is?

Is it that they only offered you a 5 half day week rather then a 2 full day and one half day week?
Is it that you had to walk to work?

I'm really confused.

I can't answer for the op. At a guess she needed flexibility in her job due to getting sick. Working 5 half days isn't very ideal. It could be doable depending on location and distance to work from home. Otherwise there's 5 half days to pay out in expenses like transport and lunches. Perhaps even leading to a draining of energy and being exhausted easily due to cancer treatment and the toll it takes on a body. Whereas doing the working hours over 2 and half days there's a little less expenditure with transport costs for only three days. I would imagine the op would need to attend hospital appointments from time to time too. With a 2 and half day work week, appointments could be arranged for the other 2 days. With a 5 and half day week getting to an appointment from work could be a difficultly due to location.

c0deblu2th

Mr Incognito... In March after my boss turned me down for third time, I knew it was time to leave. I contacted the Workplace Relations Commission to enquire about getting my dole because of my circumstances. It was they who told me I had grounds for a CD case.

I then began calling and emailing union to find out how to go about it. They had the whole story.

The day I left my job at end of April was when she eventually made contact.

My advice to others is if you have grounds, dot those I's , get a second opinion to make sure you have covered all bases.

If you think it's hard when you get to point of having nowhere left to turn in job, then leaving job to go on social welfare, it's nothing to when sitting across from these people on the day.

I am lucky, having had cancer my priorities changed completely. My day in court was to say 'what you did was wrong'. Even when they realized they had won they didn't smile with relief. It was a simple error but I still feel great for standing up to them finally.

Mr. Incognito

c0deblu2th wrote: »

Mr Incognito... In March after my boss turned me down for third time, I knew it was time to leave. I contacted the Workplace Relations Commission to enquire about getting my dole because of my circumstances. It was they who told me I had grounds for a CD case.

I then began calling and emailing union to find out how to go about it. They had the whole story.

The day I left my job at end of April was when she eventually made contact.

My advice to others is if you have grounds, dot those I's , get a second opinion to make sure you have covered all bases.

If you think it's hard when you get to point of having nowhere left to turn in job, then leaving job to go on social welfare, it's nothing to when sitting across from these people on the day.

I am lucky, having had cancer my priorities changed completely. My day in court was to say 'what you did was wrong'. Even when they realized they had won they didn't smile with relief. It was a simple error but I still feel great for standing up to them finally.

I'm sorry but you should not be taking legal advice from some numpty answering the phones in the Workplace Relations.

There are free legal services like Flac, the Free Legal Aid Board and a solicitor on every High street in Ireland.

I am glad that you feel that you won a moral victory, but the reality is that you lost your case, what appears to be a good case because you relied on telephone advice from the workplace relations, who do not give advice btw and a Union Rep who wouldnt know his legal arse from his elbow.

Your thread is asking a simple question- do you have any come back.

No, sadly you dont. If you consulted a proper legal advisor you would have. You didnt need a second opinion. You needed a first opinon from someone who knew what they were talking about.

I hope this is a life lesson for you.

c0deblu2th

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I'm sorry but you should not be taking legal advice from some numpty answering the phones in the Workplace Relations.

There are free legal services like Flac, the Free Legal Aid Board and a solicitor on every High street in Ireland.

I am glad that you feel that you won a moral victory, but the reality is that you lost your case, what appears to be a good case because you relied on telephone advice from the workplace relations, who do not give advice btw and a Union Rep who wouldnt know his legal arse from his elbow.

Your thread is asking a simple question- do you have any come back.

No, sadly you dont. If you consulted a proper legal advisor you would have. You didnt need a second opinion. You needed a first opinon from someone who knew what they were talking about.

I hope this is a life lesson for you.

LOL! Your post has cheered me up. Life lesson was should have gone eight years ago when all gooduns left with last words how in gods name did that bunch get a job here.

LegacyUser

c0deblu2th wrote: »

For two and half years I watched my colleagues go on holidays drive past me to and from work. I was paying out on taxis, expensive crappy walking shoes needed to fit orthotics and all weather gear.

I don't understand OP - even if you were working part time you would have been entitled to holidays so what does your colleagues having holidays have to do with it? Also if they were driving past you why didn't you ask in work about a car pool or shared ride scheme, at least in the mornings? You had to walk to work but this was causing you issue due to illness yes? I'm guessing you walked to work before your illness with no issue. If the illness impacted your mobility to such a degree why didn't you apply for disability? Your posts are really confusing - what difference would have working 3 full days had made to walking to work, you still would have had to walk in 3 days a week.

Hmm_Messiah

I also am a little lost, and employment law is to some degree my area

Filing for constructive dismissal BEFORE your employment terminated is NOT a technicality. And at the very least its quite silly

Also the taxi costs etc. - I get that if only travelling 3 days instead of 5 that says 2 days expense but not sure how much that is a massive deal in the full scheme of things


I also am surprised any one advised you had a case for constructive dismissal in the way you describe it.

If you had a good case for Constructive Dismissal, though failed , and your employment ended recently there are possibly other options for you to pursue - via a solicitor

To be honest, and I might be misreading some, you should more a little disgruntled with things, - what is wrong with people going on holidays, how is it a concern for your employer if you can't get to work by car yourself ? or the bus route changed etc?

I don't doubt at all you had a terrible experience with your health, but it might overall be better to just look on your employment situation in a more clinical detached way.

From what I read, and understood ( it is a little confusing - e.g what exactly would be the case for CD if you decided to leave ? Looks like the employer offered you same or similar work and conditions when you returned from sick absence )

Just in case any use to you - you would now have accrued holidays for your sick absence - so if absence any time since mid 2015 you will have accrued holidays in that time which may be still due to you