"Wrong" county on 999 call

fricatus

I called 999 the other day because I saw a fire in an abandoned building. Very impressed by how quickly and efficiently the call was handled, and by how quickly I then heard the sirens.

However one thing was a bit weird: I made the call from my mobile, standing on the Quay in Waterford city centre, but the dispatcher asked me to confirm that I wanted the fire service in Kilkenny. I almost had to insist I was in Waterford and she made some comment when passing the call to the fire service woman along the lines of "he's coming up as being in Kilkenny but he says he wants Waterford".

Is this to do with connecting to a mobile phone mast that's located in Co Kilkenny, or something like that? Surely if they have something that can pinpoint your location, it can do better than potentially get you a fire brigade 30 miles away, just because there's a county border nearby.

Tripp

When you ring 999 in Ireland. You get put through to ECAS who ask you what service you require and what county you require it in.
If the cell mast you are connected to is in Kilkenny but you requested fire in Waterford. ECAS will inform the Fire Service of this while they connect you to the Fire.
It was not "some comment". It is protocol for them to inform the relevant service what county you show in, and what county you requested them for.

Walter2016

Good to see that they double check when there's possibly some doubt.

Many people ringing emergency services can be in a state of panic and information not coming through clearly.

Not everyone answering a call will know that Waterford city is on the border with Kilkenny county, so good to see that they double checked.

fricatus

Tripp wrote: »

It was not "some comment". It is protocol for them to inform the relevant service what county you show in, and what county you requested them for.

Fair enough, I didn't mean anything by it. It's not every day I call 999, so I don't know what's protocol and what isn't.

I guess what surprised me - and prompted me to post here - was that the system essentially got my location wrong. I understand that it was quickly corrected, but it's only my local knowledge that corrected that. A tourist calling that in wouldn't have a clue, and then what? I'm guessing the fire service in Kilkenny would cop on quickly enough and contact colleagues in Waterford, but surely that would lead to delays - does this happen, to your knowledge?

Maybe I'm too used to seeing films where they dial 911 and the dispatcher says "I gotcha Sir, corner of 51st and Lexington, hold on, we'll have a unit with you any minute now"

GoProGaming

fricatus wrote: »

Fair enough, I didn't mean anything by it. It's not every day I call 999, so I don't know what's protocol and what isn't.

I guess what surprised me - and prompted me to post here - was that the system essentially got my location wrong. I understand that it was quickly corrected, but it's only my local knowledge that corrected that. A tourist calling that in wouldn't have a clue, and then what? I'm guessing the fire service in Kilkenny would cop on quickly enough and contact colleagues in Waterford, but surely that would lead to delays - does this happen, to your knowledge?

Maybe I'm too used to seeing films where they dial 911 and the dispatcher says "I gotcha Sir, corner of 51st and Lexington, hold on, we'll have a unit with you any minute now"

Same control room dispatches for those counties therfore no delay. Blame your mobile phone providor and lack of cell masts bouncing your signal to the nearest one in kilkenny.

Happens all the time, people are to used to hollywood and assume we have super powers. That and ferrybank & waterford train station actually being in co.Kilkenny.

Tripp

As above, blame the cell masts. There is only so many of them in a city and your nearest for your mobile provider was over the border in Kilkenny.
But If you say you need whatever service on whatever street in Waterford then the relevant emergency services will respond to there.

ED E

The states already have E911 where your handset will auto boot the GPS module even if you've got it set off but only for prelisted emergency numbers.

In Europe its called AML (Advanced Mobile Location) and its being deployed at the moment. Google only pushed the feature to Android this year.

The other thing to note is your handset will drop 4G if it has it and connect to the first 2G signal it sees to make an emergency call. This hunt process may lease you off a mast you wouldn't normally use.

It would be nice to find out from ECAS/NAS when they plan implementing it as a good 50% of handsets at least should now be already sending the associated messages.

GoProGaming

ED E wrote: »

The states already have E911 where your handset will auto boot the GPS module even if you've got it set off but only for prelisted emergency numbers.

In Europe its called AML (Advanced Mobile Location) and its being deployed at the moment. Google only pushed the feature to Android this year.

The other thing to note is your handset will drop 4G if it has it and connect to the first 2G signal it sees to make an emergency call. This hunt process may lease you off a mast you wouldn't normally use.

It would be nice to find out from ECAS/NAS when they plan implementing it as a good 50% of handsets at least should now be already sending the associated messages.

None of the services at the moment.
The best ecas can do is tll us what cell its bouncing off.

easygoing1982

GoProGaming wrote: »

Same control room dispatches for those counties therfore no delay.

Sorry but no they don't. ERCC(Eastern Regional Control Centre) operates from Dublin Fire Brigades HQ in Tara Street and controls kilkenny and Waterford is controlled by the MRCC (Munster Regional Communications Centre) which operates in Limerick fire and Rescues HQ

GoProGaming

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Sorry but no they don't. ERCC(Eastern Regional Control Centre) operates from Dublin Fire Brigades HQ in Tara Street and controls kilkenny and Waterford is controlled by the MRCC (Munster Regional Communications Centre) which operates in Limerick fire and Rescues HQ

Thats great.

easygoing1982

GoProGaming wrote: »

Thats great.

Glad I could rectify your error for you

civdef

The introduction of the new CTrí control system for the fire service nationally should help that - one unified dispatch system will cover all 3 control centres.

Schindlers Pissed

If you were on the quays in Waterford city you were about 100 yards away from County Kilkenny, across the river to be exact so you can't really blame the call taker for a little confusion, but fair play to her for taking the time to confirm.

xper

Several years ago, a chap I know was leading a hiking group in the Wicklow mountains when they came across a walker who needed medical assistance. Aware of how poor mobile reception is throughout the Wicklow mountains, he was relieved to see one bar on his phone when he took it out and to get through to 999 immediately. Great.

There then followed a couple of confusing minutes while the operator completely failed to understand the place names or grid references he was giving. It eventually became clear that he was talking to an emergency control cente in Wales!

Apparently he was indeed in a blind spot for the Irish networks but the geography and atmospherics at that moment allowed his phone to connect to a cell mast across the Irish Sea and, of course, all mobile networks allow emergency calls from any sim.

The Welsh service took all his details and passed them on to their Dublin counterparts and mountain rescue and ambulance duely turned up.

flazio

xper wrote: »

Several years ago, a chap I know was leading a hiking group in the Wicklow mountains when they came across a walker who needed medical assistance. Aware of how poor mobile reception is throughout the Wicklow mountains, he was relieved to see one bar on his phone when he took it out and to get through to 999 immediately. Great.

There then followed a couple of confusing minutes while the operator completely failed to understand the place names or grid references he was giving. It eventually became clear that he was talking to an emergency control cente in Wales!

Apparently he was indeed in a blind spot for the Irish networks but the geography and atmospherics at that moment allowed his phone to connect to a cell mast across the Irish Sea and, of course, all mobile networks allow emergency calls from any sim.

The Welsh service took all his details and passed them on to their Dublin counterparts and mountain rescue and ambulance duely turned up.

That brings up an interesting point. What happens when you make an emergency call near the border, say for example, you need an ambulance, you are put through to the Northern Irish centre, could they patch your call through to Ambulance control in Ballyshannon/ Tallaght?

Bang Bang

flazio wrote: »

That brings up an interesting point. What happens when you make an emergency call near the border, say for example, you need an ambulance, you are put through to the Northern Irish centre, could they patch your call through to Ambulance control in Ballyshannon/ Tallaght?

With the Ambulance Service both the NAS and NIAS, as well as Wales, England and Scotland all calls are processed in accordance with the IAED which is the International Academy for Emergency Dispatch of which many countries are signed up to. So basically the call is processed as normal and as soon as the location is confirmed the relevant Control Centre is contacted without delay. All Control Centres between Ireland and the UK have the means to call each other directly. Whichever Call Taker takes the call can stay on the line to give pre arrival instructions, cardiac arrest calls for example, whilst the relevant Control is contacted.

Little CuChulainn

easygoing1982 wrote: »

Sorry but no they don't. ERCC(Eastern Regional Control Centre) operates from Dublin Fire Brigades HQ in Tara Street and controls kilkenny and Waterford is controlled by the MRCC (Munster Regional Communications Centre) which operates in Limerick fire and Rescues HQ

But the original call isn't taken by the fire brigade is it?

easygoing1982

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But the original call isn't taken by the fire brigade is it?

No it would be the same as the guards. ECAS answers it. Wouldn't they?

Bang Bang

Little CuChulainn wrote: »

But the original call isn't taken by the fire brigade is it?

easygoing1982 wrote: »

No it would be the same as the guards. ECAS answers it. Wouldn't they?

ECAS which is Emergency Call Answering Service which in turn is run by British Telecom, but based in Ireland, answers the initial emergency call for all Emergency Services. ECAS call takers are the personnel who ask you which service you require and which part of the country you may be in, they then pass you to the relevant Control Centre for the service you require.

ED E

ED E wrote: »

The states already have E911 where your handset will auto boot the GPS module even if you've got it set off but only for prelisted emergency numbers.

In Europe its called AML (Advanced Mobile Location) and its being deployed at the moment. Google only pushed the feature to Android this year.

The other thing to note is your handset will drop 4G if it has it and connect to the first 2G signal it sees to make an emergency call. This hunt process may lease you off a mast you wouldn't normally use.

It would be nice to find out from ECAS/NAS when they plan implementing it as a good 50% of handsets at least should now be already sending the associated messages.

Finally launched today. ES are now very much on the Android side of the fence.