(Seat Belt)Are Some Pilots Trigger Happy ?

MuffinsDa

I was on an Are Lingus A330 flight from San Francisco to Dublin on Monday/Tuesday. It was a red eye flight, departure at 17:30 from SFO. After dinner was served, around from 21:00 or so (PT), the pilots turned on the "seat belt" light, and left it on for pretty much the whole night!!

This was accompanied by the usual announcement. However, subsequently, this was not enforced and at all and people kept walking around and going to the loo and all that with the seat belt lights on. Cabin crew didn't seem to give a toss about it. And there was no turbulence during the 5-6 hours it was on.

I find it quite annoying when they do that. Either turn it on if necessary and enforce it, or else leave it off. Why on earth do they do this? I have been on many long haul flights and I have never seen this level of blatant disregard for passenger comfort AND SAFETY (as it makes a mockery of seat belt sign).

I have notices this at times on A320 flights from Heathrow and Berlin as well. Wondering if it's something to with their SOP, and litigation prevention or some stupid reason like that.

Annoyed!

vicwatson

I thought a red eye flight was leaving at the crack of dawn?

sparrowcar

vicwatson wrote: »

I thought a red eye flight was leaving at the crack of dawn?

No red eye is night time flight.

vicwatson

I sit corrected

VG31

I've noticed this as well on EI short haul flights as well recently.

I flew with CityJet for the first time to London-City two months ago and there was some mild turbulence and the seatbelt sign wasn't turned on for quite a while.

sdanseo

Generally the advice is to keep the belt on all the time, maybe loosened, unless you actually need to leave your seat. It's possible that they've had tons of people milling around for no particular reason and on flights in and out of the US they make announcements for people not to be in groups in the aisles, etc.

If you need to get up with the sign on just hit the call button and let them know. It's a very minor inconvenience and I've always found EI cabin crew (any anyone else for that matter) to be nothing but helpful on a long haul flight.

sdanseo

sdanseo wrote: »

Generally the advice is to keep the belt on all the time, maybe loosened, unless you actually need to leave your seat. It's possible that they've had tons of people milling around for no particular reason and on flights in and out of the US they make announcements for people not to be in groups in the aisles, etc.

If you need to get up with the sign on just hit the call button and let them know. It's a very minor inconvenience and I've always found EI cabin crew (any anyone else for that matter) to be nothing but helpful on a long haul flight.

Not his point.

His point is overuse of seatbelt sign and no enforcement of it being on leads to passenger complacency.

Yes we know or at least most of us know it should be on all the time when we are seated but if you leave a sign for the entire length of a 9 hour flight and allow pax to get up and down unhindered then people will believe that they can get up at any stage including landing and subsequent take offs (I've seen and heard of this).

Locker10a

OP I totally agree with your point and I too have noticed this, I agree it makes a mockery of the seatbelt sign.
I suggest feeding this back to EI in a facebook message or if they send you a survey! Aer Lingus all all about surveys and feed back these days! You don't have to make it a complaint just a general comment as you have en excellent and valid point

bikeman1

I regularly have this problem with EI! I was flying to Dusseldorf one evening and the seat belt sign was on over 30 minutes after take off and I needed to use the loo. We had levelled off and service was about to start. Again one or two blatantly walked up and used the toilets, crew said nothing. This was while the lights were still on.

I then pressed the call bell and asked the crew member will the captain be turning it off and that I needed to use the loo. She went back and called the cockpit, and ding off came the sign! And on cue a big rush of pax to the toilets!

I've never seen this behaviour with Ryanair who have it as soon as possible. It can't be safe and it is bloody annoying if you need to use the toilet.

JCX BXC

Are 'Lingus pilots' what?

Hehe sorry

ninebeanrows

Ryanair did this on a flight i boarded recently.

There was absolutely no turbulence or anything - forecast showed the flight would be flat too. I am pretty sure the reason it was turned on was because the flight was quite rowdy with long queues for the toilet and lots of youngsters.

However, i find the fact the seat-belt light was put on simply to get people to return to their seats to be unacceptable.

It was quite clear to the handful of non rowdy customers what had happened. The cabin crew had asked the pilot to turn on the light. It then stayed on for an hour while the cabin crew chatted away. It meant that the non-rowdy passengers were stuck in their seats with no option to go to the toilet even though there was no turbulence happening/or expected.

tricky D

I was on the same flight and while there was an occasional bit of mild turbulence it did seem that they forgot to turn off the seat belt lights for at least half the flight. And yes, the cabin crew just continued service throughout and ignored those getting up for the loo. Also have to say there seemed to be a good amount of numpties with poor cabin etiquette in the rows ahead of me: ignoring signs, not fastening belts at take-off after being told, reclining during dinner.

Shannon Control

bikeman1 wrote: »

I regularly have this problem with EI! I was flying to Dusseldorf one evening and the seat belt sign was on over 30 minutes after take off and I needed to use the loo. We had levelled off and service was about to start. Again one or two blatantly walked up and used the toilets, crew said nothing. This was while the lights were still on.

I then pressed the call bell and asked the crew member will the captain be turning it off and that I needed to use the loo. She went back and called the cockpit, and ding off came the sign! And on cue a big rush of pax to the toilets!

I've never seen this behaviour with Ryanair who have it as soon as possible. It can't be safe and it is bloody annoying if you need to use the toilet.

Experienced this too back from Venice in September. Cockpit switched it on, and it stayed on for an hour, before we reached the southern English coast and asked the FAs if the cockpit forgot, and then straightaway when the FA put down the phone to the cockpit it comes off!

gctest50

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I find it quite annoying when they do that.

...... and I have never seen this level of blatant disregard for passenger comfort AND .......

You'll find it much more annoying when they hit a bit of shear or turbulence and you break your neck off the overhead bins

Mebuntu

EI

However, subsequently, this was not enforced and at all and people kept walking around and going to the loo and all that with the seat belt lights on.

FR

It meant that the non-rowdy passengers were stuck in their seats with no option to go to the toilet even though there was no turbulence happening/or expected.

I've always wondered what those EI ads about "Smart" were all about and now we know. The EI pax were smart enough to know that the seat belt sign on doesn't really mean what it says whereas the poor sods on FR just sat there bursting to go to the loo.

I was taxying out on BA once at DUB and reminded the FA that the seat belt sign had never been on since I boarded. This was quickly rectified.

Locker10a

Mebuntu wrote: »

EI

However, subsequently, this was not enforced and at all and people kept walking around and going to the loo and all that with the seat belt lights on.

FR

It meant that the non-rowdy passengers were stuck in their seats with no option to go to the toilet even though there was no turbulence happening/or expected.

I've always wondered what those EI ads about "Smart" were all about and now we know. The EI pax were smart enough to know that the seat belt sign on doesn't really mean what it says whereas the poor sods on FR just sat there bursting to go to the loo.

I was taxying out on BA once at DUB and reminded the FA that the seat belt sign had never been on since I boarded. This was quickly rectified.

I recall being on an EI flight a few years ago and no only was the seat belt sign switched off after take off so was the no smoking sign! I asked the crew about this and the reply was just that some captains do it/forget its not 1992 anymore lol

Noxegon

It strikes me that this shouldn't be that hard a thing to automate. Why not have a cockpit chime that says "The Seat Belt Sign is On" every five minutes or so when the plane is >10000 feet?

faceman

I fly transatlantic with them a lot and to be fair have seldomly encountered it. When I do it's usually at the start of the flight. I have come across it on short haul though.

I wonder if half the time they just forget to turn it off!

I was on a flight from Toronto to San Francisco with Air Canada one time and on boarding the pilot warned us that we would be hitting turbulence a few times during the flights.

In the end it was a couple of short duration bumps (less than expected) but I think the pilot got tired of turning the light on and off. We had a period of 45 minutes of clear air with the light on. Figured he forgot to turn it off

IngazZagni

Perhaps a lot of the time they do forget to turn the seat belt sign off but there are far more reasons as well. If you haven't noticed we live in a world ruled by the legal profession and many people are out there to make a quick buk. Something as simple as a passenger "injuring" herself after the onset of turbulence when the seatbelt sign was off could expose the airline to compensation claims. While the seatbelt sign is on, the passenger walks at their own risk.

It is often very difficult to predict turbulence and indeed weather charts can be very inaccurate when it comes to turbulence. Pilots will rely on communication reports from other aircraft about turbulence levels at their location. Other types of turbulence such as wake turbulence caused by other aircraft are very short but can be quite severe and again, difficult to predict.

I do agree though. Having the seatbelt sign on for 5-6 hours when it was smooth seems like massive overkill .

Noxegon wrote: »

It strikes me that this shouldn't be that hard a thing to automate. Why not have a cockpit chime that says "The Seat Belt Sign is On" every five minutes or so when the plane is >10000 feet?

Simply put, this would cost money. Plus lots of resources to approve it for use in the flightdeck. Also it could be very annoying for the pilots if the seat belt signs are indeed required for an extended period of time.

goingnowhere

I've found EI slow to toggle the switch on when we hit some light bumps and they are slow to switch off during the climb, BA are noticeably quicker.

homerjay2005

sparrowcar wrote: »

No red eye is night time flight.

any time i hear somebody talking about red eye, they talk about flights leaving 5-7 in the morning.

in fact, ive never heard anybody mention red eye and night time flying before.

Tenger

homerjay2005 wrote: »

any time i hear somebody talking about red eye, they talk about flights leaving 5-7 in the morning.

in fact, ive never heard anybody mention red eye and night time flying before.

I've heard both descriptions, "red eye flights" I first read it referring to US Transcon flights which were usually overnight going West-East, you would arrive in NY tired and grumpy....thus "red eye" (They are a bit more civilised now with mid-day departures and flat beds!)

When I worked in DUB I heard "red eye" describing the first wave departures as everyone was frazzled after too little sleep on night shifts or earlies.

skallywag

Tenger wrote: »

... I first read it referring to US Transcon flights which were usually overnight going West-East, you would arrive in NY tired and grumpy....thus "red eye"...

Yip, that's always been my understanding of it too, with the term being first coined in reference to overnight flights heading East over the US.

MuffinsDa

skallywag wrote: »

Yip, that's always been my understanding of it too, with the term being first coined in reference to overnight flights heading East over the US.

Anyway, doesn't matter red eye or not, back on topic: I think most people agree than leaving it on all the time is a)unsafe (as people will stop taking it serious) and b)inconvenient.

I don't think if I send a general email about it to some Aer Lingus first-line support address they would really give a toss or do anything about it though...

skallywag

MuffinsDa wrote: »

I don't think if I send a general email about it to some Aer Lingus first-line support address they would really give a toss or do anything about it though...

Most airlines will have a facility on their website where you can give feedback, be it positive or negative, which is linked to a specific flight.

hendo111

Off topic but having flown a few times over the last few weeks a bigger complaint of mine is people who are in the airport for 2 hours yet wait till they are in the sky for 5 minutes and make a rush for the toilet,awful morons.

Noxegon

hendo111 wrote: »

Off topic but having flown a few times over the last few weeks a bigger complaint of mine is people who are in the airport for 2 hours yet wait till they are in the sky for 5 minutes and make a rush for the toilet,awful morons.

Change of pressure perhaps?

VG31

Noxegon wrote: »

Change of pressure perhaps?

And nervousness possibly.

ongarboy

hendo111 wrote: »

Off topic but having flown a few times over the last few weeks a bigger complaint of mine is people who are in the airport for 2 hours yet wait till they are in the sky for 5 minutes and make a rush for the toilet,awful morons.

Not everyone can go on cue or they may have medical issues that mean they have to go when the have to go (particularly some elderly pax). Why is someone else's rushing to the loo onboard such an inconvenience for you that you lambast them as awful morons? If you're so organised and superior, you'll have done your deed on terra firma so queues in the air at the first opportunity won't be an issue for you surely?

View Profile

Pilot's are humans and so can forget to turn the seatbelt sign off after turbulence.
Cabin crew are usually quick to call and tell us if this is the case though.
Like was previously said, pilot reports can be passed on by ATC to inform crew of possible turbulence enroute so as a precaution the sign can be turned on for a lengthy period.
However, having a sign on for a few hours is taking the piss.

looksee

I was on the JFK/DUB flight on Tues/Wed and the seatbelt light was on for a good bit of the journey though I think it was turned off at intervals. There was a good bit of mild turbulence but in spite of announcements about it many passengers continued wandering around and going to the toilet regardless.