Shannon Aerospace?

CaptainSkidmark

Hi folks, just wondering is Shannon aerospace totally gone now and 100% Lufthansa? If so do they still do the traineeships like before?

artanevilla

It's Lufthansa now, still generally refered to as Shannon Aerospace though.

And yes they do still do traineeships.

Stovepipe

A traineeship is worthless as all it qualifies you for is unskilled or semiskilled labour. It's designed to suit maintenance companies bottom line and is not designed to teach you a trade.There is no craft element, whatsoever. It is not an apprenticeship nor is it a path to one. It is a cynical use of labour, for the dirty jobs on aircraft deep maintenance; cleaning cabins, cargo holds, stripping paint, stripping sealant, cleaning wheel wells, applying corrosion proofing liquids and so on. If you go for anything, at least make it an apprenticeship, as it is a good path to a good aviation career.

regards
Stovepipe

CaptainSkidmark

Not for me, I work in Sakhalin Island in Far East Russia but very informative. I had my suspicions.

Anyone know how much they tend to make after their 2.5 year stint?

Skuxx

CaptainSkidmark wrote: »

Not for me, I work in Sakhalin Island in Far East Russia but very informative. I had my suspicions.

Anyone know how much they tend to make after their 2.5 year stint?

Tbh, I think Stevopipe is putting a very negative spin on things. It might not be a traditional apprenticeship, but it certainly is a great opportunity to get into the industry and start gaining experience while at the same time you can study for you B Licence modules and become a licenced engineer.
If becoming a licenced engineer is something you want to achieve, it is certainly possible!!

kona

Skuxx wrote: »

Tbh, I think Stevopipe is putting a very negative spin on things. It might not be a traditional apprenticeship, but it certainly is a great opportunity to get into the industry and start gaining experience while at the same time you can study for you B Licence modules and become a licenced engineer.
If becoming a licenced engineer is something you want to achieve, it is certainly possible!!

He's right tho. A traineeship is just used to get cheap labour to do the **** jobs.

It will take you 2 years more to achieve a b license that route than it would doing a apprenticeship and that's doing it as fast as you can.
A apprenticeship will give you a better more rounded training

Stovepipe

I assure you, traineeships are held in contempt on the hangar floor and the line by anyone who has done a proper craft apprenticeship. They are designed purely to save maintenance companies money, by shaving away the terms and conditions of employees. My old man did an apprenticeship as a painter, back in the days when it took seven years and this is a return to that; keeping employees at lower wages for longer, doing menial jobs with less chance of promotion, pay growth, craft upskilling and quality of life in general (lower pay means less ability to buy better stuff, less chance to get a mortgage/pay for college/pay for holidays,etc,etc).It's also prevalent in non-union companies, so you have no protection, little or no rights and no security.

billy few mates

I'm pretty sure everyone that passed through Shannon Aerospace since it's inception in the early 1990s was classed as a trainee rather than an apprentice. Hundreds if not thousands of them became fully licensed and approved and moved on to better things or stayed and moved up within the organisation. There was nothing third rate about their training or the experience they gained while working there, wherever you go in the world, if you work in this industry you're going to bump into ex SAL trainees...

J.pilkington

Stovepipe wrote: »

I assure you, traineeships are held in contempt on the hangar floor and the line by anyone who has done a proper craft apprenticeship. They are designed purely to save maintenance companies money, by shaving away the terms and conditions of employees. My old man did an apprenticeship as a painter, back in the days when it took seven years and this is a return to that; keeping employees at lower wages for longer, doing menial jobs with less chance of promotion, pay growth, craft upskilling and quality of life in general (lower pay means less ability to buy better stuff, less chance to get a mortgage/pay for college/pay for holidays,etc,etc).It's also prevalent in non-union companies, so you have no protection, little or no rights and no security.

Your posts makes it sound like the role is not a life long / skilled role or as you say yourself a long term apprenticeship. In any industry how many trainee / apprenticeships are capable of taking out motgages?

But at the same time in order for Shannon Aerospace to stay competitive in a very cost conscious industry (with low costs of switching sites) not every role can be filled by a unionised employee who is likely to be paid well above the average cost of the role in other worldwide sites

Like it it not non unionised low pay roles are needed in every job other wise it would be like Lufthansa on the naas road where the company gets fed up and leaves

As for that comment about how unionised workers see these workers, that sounds like typical unionised bully boy tactics which led to the demise of the Naas road

Regards JP snr

Bussywussy

kona wrote: »

Skuxx wrote: »

Tbh, I think Stevopipe is putting a very negative spin on things. It might not be a traditional apprenticeship, but it certainly is a great opportunity to get into the industry and start gaining experience while at the same time you can study for you B Licence modules and become a licenced engineer.
If becoming a licenced engineer is something you want to achieve, it is certainly possible!!

He's right tho. A traineeship is just used to get cheap labour to do the **** jobs.

It will take you 2 years more to achieve a b license that route than it would doing a apprenticeship and that's doing it as fast as you can.
A apprenticeship will give you a better more rounded training

It's base maintenance experience which is invaluable,give me someone trained in a hanger rather than trained on the line any day.line trained apprentices aren't a patch on most who trained in base maintenance.

Stovepipe

I know and work with plenty of ex Shannon aerospace guys, most of whom are ex apprentices and most of whom are very good at what they do. I've no issue with them as individuals but some of the "traineeship" training that I've encountered would make your hair curl......@j.pilkington, I'm no fan of union bullying by a long shot but I'd rather have a union offering me some level of protection than not. the way things are in the industry now, zero-hour contracts, failure to honour contracts, poor rates of pay and abuse by management are becoming standard fare... @bussywussy, i'm not going to get into a row on line versus base but I prefer people who have experience of both. There are good and bad points to line and base.....my basic premise is that a proper apprenticeship is a fuller educational experience, which benefits the apprentice in the long run, as it makes him a better candidate for further education (a huge number of apprentices go on to become airline pilots-at least seven out of my Class are now Captains), higher office in aircraft maintenance and other technical trades and gaining degrees (practically standard requirement in some airlines to get off the shop floor).

roundymac

Bussywussy wrote: »

It's base maintenance experience which is invaluable,give me someone trained in a hanger rather than trained on the line any day.line trained apprentices aren't a patch on most who trained in base maintenance.

For the "uneducated" what is the difference between hanger trained and line trained?

debabyjesus

roundymac wrote: »

For the "uneducated" what is the difference between hanger trained and line trained?

Line Maintenance is day to day maintenance and defect rectification while the aircraft is in service.

Base maintenance is large checks in Hangers where aircraft are pretty much dismantled for maintenance and checks.

The guy above who implies base engineers are better trained is talking bollox. Yes they may be dismantling aircraft regularly and doing things line engineers would never see but send them up the line to something departing in 15 minutes with an engine air fault, ils fault, blocked jacks and toss them an Mel.

So it's a matter of training for the job at hand, a good engineer can do it all regardless of where he was trained. Most airlines have a mix of line and Base maintenance going on anyway.

Stovepipe

Also, there are people in base or hangar maintenance who are trained engineers but are shop based, ie overhaul of components, such as APUs, electrical motors, hydraulic sytems, wheels and brakes,etc,etc that line personnel wouldn't normally deal with. Sheet metal workers can and do work in both places, but tend to do the larger repairs in the hangars. Where I work, we line people would often take the aircraft to the hangar to do work that requires being in out of the elements and to have access to special tooling that is normally kept in the hangar.

Andy456

I'm currently looking at doing a traineeship - just wondering is the Shannon Aerospace that you talk of the same place as Shannon Training Centre that are currently offering a traineeship?