Touting and Ticketmaster.

DrumSteve

Firstly, Im not a fan of Coldplay.

But I do empathize with people sitting there this morning trying to buy tickets for a gig that is supposedly sold out only for tickets to reappear seconds later on Ticketmasters sister site Seatwave seconds later for 3/4 times the price which is a joke.

Is there anything that can be done about this? or do we just have to put up with it?

Tilly

Does every other country have just one ticket outlet like us?

DrumSteve

Tilly wrote: »

Does every other country have just one ticket outlet like us?

Ticketmaster have tho whole tickets thing pretty much sown up across the board. Look at what happened when Pearl Jam took them on in the 90's for reference.

The_Valeyard

Tilly wrote: »

Does every other country have just one ticket outlet like us?

It is a bit crazy alright. Just a monopoly alright. Hate ticket touts. Scumbags.

brevity

Do the artists have control of who sells their tickets or is it down to contracts with the record company?

lertsnim

brevity wrote: »

Do the artists have control of who sells their tickets or is it down to contracts with the record company?

Have a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlnL8drSdw

DrumSteve

lertsnim wrote: »

Have a look at this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWlnL8drSdw

Must give that a watch later. Looks very good.

gandalf

The only thing they can do is to personalise the tickets with your photo so they cannot be sold on. Someone turns up on the night and their picture isn't on the ticket they don't get in. The problem is if you give the ticket to a friend or buy it as a present or your appearance changes from when you bought the ticket to when the concert is on (typically at least six months these days).

Is it ticketmaster pulling a fast one? They pretend they are sold out, only to release more? I don't get it.

Allinall

There's a guy on extended leave down in Brazil might be able to explain the system.

Caliden

gandalf wrote: »

The only thing they can do is to personalise the tickets with your photo so they cannot be sold on. Someone turns up on the night and their picture isn't on the ticket they don't get in. The problem is if you give the ticket to a friend or buy it as a present or your appearance changes from when you bought the ticket to when the concert is on (typically at least six months these days).

The thing is Ticketmaster own SeatWave which is a ticket reseller (tout) so they make fees selling the original ticket and reselling the ticket.

They won't do anything which would hurt the golden goose they've got going on at the moment.

Collie D

SeatWave is an absolute joke. I hope it's heavily regulated and audited. It wouldn't be beyond belief for Ticketmaster to put up the sold out signs and stick a large number up there themselves.

Interesting aside: The autopredict on my phone always suggests Ticketbastard before Ticketmaster.

AlanG

It is pretty certain that the promoters are in on this - a large number of tickets are sold to a company owned by the promoters and these then appear on seatwave making lots more money for the band and promoters.

The band can say they are selling tickets for 70 and not look like greedy capitalists when complaining about how the government spend the taxes of the little people.
The promoters get to sell the tickets at a price they know the market will endure.
Ticketmaster get lots of extra commission and ensure the promoters always use them, thus locking out the competition.
The consumer gets screwed but never blames the band.

Its a Win-Win-Win-Lose, 3 out of 4 aint bad!!

o1s1n

I always wonder what kind of eejit pays those inflated Seatwave prices. The fact that it exists means there must be quite a few of them :eek:

nhunter100

People give out about being scammed/ripped off, but still go ahead and buy tickets. Only way Ticket master will pay attention if they get hit where hurts not going to happen though.

Collie D

o1s1n wrote: »

I always wonder what kind of eejit pays those inflated Seatwave prices. The fact that it exists means there must be quite a few of them :eek:

Was wondering same myself. Nine times out of ten when a big gig is announced one of the first comments you'll hear is along the likes of "€80?! That's ****ing scandalous" but there are massive markups on Viagogo and Seatwave. Now obviously people may not actually be buying but surely the marketplace wouldn't exist without some kind of demand.

Collie D

By the way, OP, I love how you pre-empted your post by stating you're not a Coldplay fan. Bad impression for anyone to have of a person.

Muahahaha

AlanG wrote: »

It is pretty certain that the promoters are in on this - a large number of tickets are sold to a company owned by the promoters and these then appear on seatwave making lots more money for the band and promoters.

The band can say they are selling tickets for 70 and not look like greedy capitalists when complaining about how the government spend the taxes of the little people.
The promoters get to sell the tickets at a price they know the market will endure.
Ticketmaster get lots of extra commission and ensure the promoters always use them, thus locking out the competition.
The consumer gets screwed but never blames the band.

Its a Win-Win-Win-Lose, 3 out of 4 aint bad!!

I think thats precisely the idea- to create a new market where the price of tickets can go as high as the market will endure. Ticketmaster couldnt be seen to be doing this themselves so they established Seatwave. So it means now for a gig theyll have their usual two or three price points of €60/€75/€90 and then hold back several thousand tickets for sale on Seatwave at €200/€300/€400. They know that the people who buy these tickets are either going to be very wealthy who wouldnt think twice about dropping €800 on a pair of tickets or else theyll be desperate fans who couldnt get tickets but will pay to see the band at any cost.

The Govt are supposed to be introducing legislation to prevent the above cost selling of tickets. I just cant see it being policed effectively even if it does come in.

Grayson

Collie D wrote: »

Interesting aside: The autopredict on my phone always suggests Ticketbastard before Ticketmaster.

They distribute tickets for Grandmaster Flash

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

Had a quick look on seatwave, one ticket 550, booking fee over 100 euro. Dafuq? Chris Martin would want to come off the stage into the crowd and fix me himself before I'd even consider paying that money for a ticket and I love Coldplay.

Would you be arsed? Until there's no demand for extortionate priced tickets, it'll keep happening

entropi

Toutless is the best thing to happen in this country for a long time regarding ticket reselling. If only there was more regulation regarding vastly inflated, extorted pricing of resale tickets, buying said tickets might be a bit more bearable.

I wouldn't go see Coldplay if I was given free tickets, but can empathise with the situation as its happened to me before with some of my favoured bands.

Riddle me this one, anyone who knows the industry.

Gig I attended in 2014 - sold out in 4 minutes. I was lucky enough to get one, though think my mate got it in Sound Cellar.
Night before the gig, standing tickets go on sale in pairs only, for an hour or so. I managed to get two of these, too, and sold my spare.

What's with this business? Why hold back a limited number of standing tickets until the night before?

Collie D

Got tickets for U2 last year day before. The last minute sales seems to be a common enough thing. Know a few people who got them without waiting online for ages so must have been a reasonably large number.

I have four posts in this thread and I haven't slagged off Coldplay. It's killing me but I am impressed with my own self restraint

Grayson

Deleted User wrote: »

Riddle me this one, anyone who knows the industry.

Gig I attended in 2014 - sold out in 4 minutes. I was lucky enough to get one, though think my mate got it in Sound Cellar.
Night before the gig, standing tickets go on sale in pairs only, for an hour or so. I managed to get two of these, too, and sold my spare.

What's with this business? Why hold back a limited number of standing tickets until the night before?

People returning tickets?

Mantis Toboggan

Ticketmaster have a complete monopoly on the tickets and are in bed with the promoters. They sell a large chunk to their other companies who triple the price to customers. Can't blame them as they're making a fortune and getting away with it.

jimmy blevins

As long as people are prepared to pay such blatant rip off prices the practice will continue.

Collie D

Grayson wrote: »

People returning tickets?

Non refund policy unless gig is cancelled.

Arne_Saknussem

Collie D wrote: »

Non refund policy unless gig is cancelled.

Not shifting the Seatwave tickets so they cancel them and release more to Ticketmaster?

beertons

Allinall wrote: »

There's a guy on extended leave down in Brazil might be able to explain the system.

Was thinking about this myself.

theoneeyedman

The brazilians have the right idea. Selling a ticket above face value should be a criminal offence be it ticketmaster a tout on the street mayo county board or anyone else .

theteal

Glasto is done on a registration basis with all tickets personalised - not that hard to implement.

alb

The whole issue is that the original price of tickets is set too low. Not sure why they do this. If a gig is selling out in 4 minutes, it's behaving like a fire sale, you're charging too little. Now they're shoehorning in a secondary market so tickets can sell at the fair market value. Why not just sell them like that up front? Is it because they can give a smaller cut to the artist this way? Any strategy they have that allows touts taking a cut means they're losing potential money though.

wakka12

Well they'll only be sold if theres a market of stupid people willing to pay 4 times the selling price for tickets. Its their loss, not the ticket touters. Nothing should be done about it, theyre just making money where money can be made

NIMAN

Legalised touting.

NIMAN

theteal wrote: »

Glasto is done on a registration basis with all tickets personalised - not that hard to implement.

Personalling tickets is basically irrelevant.

I have been to plenty of football games with a name printed on the ticket that wasn't me. Never been refused entry.

questionmark?

alb wrote: »

The whole issue is that the original price of tickets is set too low. Not sure why they do this. If a gig is selling out in 4 minutes, it's behaving like a fire sale, you're charging too little. Now they're shoehorning in a secondary market so tickets can sell at the fair market value. Why not just sell them like that up front? Is it because they can give a smaller cut to the artist this way? Any strategy they have that allows touts taking a cut means they're losing potential money though.

Ticket prices are not too low!
If an average ticket costs €80 and 80000 people buy tickets that's €6,400,000! Now consider many of the tickets are packaged at a higher level, corporate packages, merchandise, video rights of concert etc... it's not unreasonable to suggest that €10,000,000+ revenue is more than a fecking enough. Yes there are costs but feck me that's some serious money for just one show on a tour!!

Arne_Saknussem

NIMAN wrote: »

Personalling tickets is basically irrelevant.

I have been to plenty of football games with a name printed on the ticket that wasn't me. Never been refused entry.

Worked for the Tom Waits gigs in the Phoenix Park, his first gigs here in over 20 years and there wasn't a tout in sight.

Arne_Saknussem

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Not shifting the Seatwave tickets so they cancel them and release more to Ticketmaster?

This is a good theory!

alb

questionmark? wrote: »

Ticket prices are not too low!
If an average ticket costs €80 and 80000 people buy tickets that's €6,400,000! Now consider many of the tickets are packaged at a higher level, corporate packages, merchandise, video rights of concert etc... it's not unreasonable to suggest that €10,000,000+ revenue is more than a fecking enough. Yes there are costs but feck me that's some serious money for just one show on a tour!!

They're too low if they're selling out immediately, and then selling on a secondary market for more. I mean, objectively that means they were too low. People paying more than the original price means they are worth more than that price. The total amount of revenue or profit they're making or whether it is enough is irrelevant to this. The money is being spent anyway on the tickets just not upfront the first time they're sold.

MadYaker

NIMAN wrote: »

Personalling tickets is basically irrelevant.

I have been to plenty of football games with a name printed on the ticket that wasn't me. Never been refused entry.

The tickets for Glastonbury have your photo on them as well though. So only you can use your ticket because when you're going in you have to show ID and your ticket and your face obviously. Cuts out touting completely because your ticket is totally worthless to anyone apart from yourself.

If this was introduced for gigs across the board it would cut out touting completely.

Ticketmaster own Seatwave don't they?

And you can sell your tickets on Seatwave for multiples of face value.

Selling above face value is touting right? It is on Donedeal anyway....

Winterlong

RoboKlopp wrote: »

Ticketmaster own Seatwave don't they?

And you can sell your tickets on Seatwave for multiples of face value.

Selling above face value is touting right? It is on Donedeal anyway....

It's a fckin joke to be honest. An expensive one.

Professey Chin

MadYaker wrote: »

The tickets for Glastonbury have your photo on them as well though. So only you can use your ticket because when you're going in you have to show ID and your ticket and your face obviously. Cuts out touting completely because your ticket is totally worthless to anyone apart from yourself.

If this was introduced for gigs across the board it would cut out touting completely.

This exactly. Besides the odd uncanny resemblance it works perfectly. I've been to Glastonbury repeatedly and everyone I've met is someone who went though the effort of wanting to be there. There might be exceptions but it's rare. Its a simple solution but it's one Ticketmaster doesn't want

Commotion Ocean

The tickets have the name of the credit card holder on them if bought online, but no name is written on them if bought from a TicketMaster booth.

They should be like airline tickets with names printed on each individual ticket and only valid with a credible form of ID.

dixiefly

Arne_Saknussem wrote: »

Worked for the Tom Waits gigs in the Phoenix Park, his first gigs here in over 20 years and there wasn't a tout in sight.

Yes, it worked perfectly for those gigs.

Greenmachine

alb wrote: »

The whole issue is that the original price of tickets is set too low. Not sure why they do this. If a gig is selling out in 4 minutes, it's behaving like a fire sale, you're charging too little. Now they're shoehorning in a secondary market so tickets can sell at the fair market value. Why not just sell them like that up front? Is it because they can give a smaller cut to the artist this way? Any strategy they have that allows touts taking a cut means they're losing potential money though.

Or supply is too low. Double the price and it would not sell as quick or as well. It does sound like ticket master want to have their cake and eat it though. Catch the hysteria of missed opportunity in fans. For a gig with 80k seats they could potentially release 75k seats and sell 5k through their seller without those tickets every touching a customers hands.
Wouldn't be an issue if they were calling a "Spade a Spade" but their not.

PRman

Disgusted by this Ticketmaster/Seatwave access of evil after missing out on U2 tickets. I really hope legislation is brought in soon as there is a clear conflict of interest between the two sites. It's a bit like night clubs and drug dealers in collusion. I had a look into the companies and some interesting findings. They have 2 operating companies: THE TICKET SHOP UNLIMITED COMPANY and TICKETLINE UNLIMITED COMPANY. Both unlimited companies so they don't have to disclose accounts publically, and then the shareholders are Isle of Man companies so as to avoid tax and retain limited liability. A legal but morally questionable set up, similar to ones used by Denis O'Brien and other. If anyone is interested, the board members are as follows:

Mod edit: No, absolutely not.

Skylinehead

Mod: The posting of peoples addresses is not happening.

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This post has been deleted.

weldoninhio

You should have a login on ticketmaster just like, say, boards. Then you should have to put a name on each ticket when you buy them. Tickets should also only be transferable through the ticketmaster system to someone else with a login, whose name would go onto the ticket once it was transferred.

Surely wouldn't take too much to implement. This would be the only legal way to buy/sell tickets and there should be legislation controlling it.

The_Valeyard

They passed a law in Belgium making reselling of tickets allowed but only at cost price of tickets. Should be done here.