Rugby for my Son.

FixdePitchmark

Ok sorry for long intro. This could be a bit out there for the Rugby forum - so sorry mods.

I'm from a soccer background - wouldn't know one end of a Rugby ball to the other - if in fact it is called an end. I like watching Rugby - but think they lose the run of themselves with the importance of it all (sorry - perhaps wrong place to post that).

Tried my son out at soccer and he just didn't like anything about it - to make thing a little worse all his friends are a little younger and he couldn't even play for the team due to the January age change. He told me soccer players use rude words - and talk funny - by the way, I was a little disappointed at what was tolerated with what players were saying to each other, there was little Ronaldos there at only 8 and he wasn't up to it at all. If I was coach - I wouldn't let anyone talk to anyone like that - particulalry when they were teammates and secondly only 8.

I think in hindsight GAA would have been a better direction.

Anyway - for some reason I decided to get him a Rugby ball and we have been playing a bit with it - he is big and strong for his age and loves the idea of holding onto the ball and not letting it go - up to an including taking you out.

He actively asks us to go play with the Rugby ball - but would be a bit too rough for his soccer friends. He would be slow to go to another sport after his first experience - but is coming around.

So a couple of questions -

we live in the Artane area and the coastal area - Sutton to Clontarf is close.

Is he too old already ?
How would he start ?
Seems daft - but do kids get hurt at that age ?
is it very competitive at that age ?

I'm big into sports - Golf etc, but I think my son needs a team sport - and I need to get moving asap.

Thanks for any ideas.

Trojan

Rugby is a great sport. There will be a lot more respect on the pitch.

Give Clontarf office a call or head down there on Saturday morning to check it out. Mini's is not competitive, except for the parents

shaungil

He's no too old.
Contact Clontarf or Suttonians and go training. Maybe he has a buddy in one of those.
Yes they do get hurt but they get hurt climbing running jumping without a rugby ball near them.
Mini Rugby until under 13 is non-competitive. Teams are not streamed. There is no score kept or leagues.
Season just started so great time to give it a lash.

FixdePitchmark

shaungil wrote: »

He's no too old.
Contact Clontarf or Suttonians and go training. Maybe he has a buddy in one of those.
Yes they do get hurt but they get hurt climbing running jumping without a rugby ball near them.
Mini Rugby until under 13 is non-competitive. Teams are not streamed. There is no score kept or leagues.
Season just started so great time to give it a lash.

That sounds very good - and love that it is non - competitive.

Thanks.

Clontarf is close.

awec

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

That sounds very good - and love that it is non - competitive.

Thanks.

Clontarf is close.

At his ages it's mostly just about fun and participation. Most of the more technical parts of the game are stripped out.

8 a side, 15 mins a half and no concept of forwards/ backs (I think).

No tackling above the waist, no handing off, no scrums, no lineouts, no kicking etc. He's no more likely to get hurt than he would be playing soccer or GAA.

errlloyd

I started at under 10s I think, I didn't have a particularly sporty family so I think when I first showed up to training and I didn't even know I couldn't pass the ball forward. You get into it fairly fast.

Good luck with it, Clontarf were always a lovely team to play against. Suttonians too tbh.

Neil3030

I think I was even older starting; maybe 9 or 10. They called it Leprechaun rugby and you played across the width of the pitch. I think it was 11v11, and I remember you got one point for a try, no conversions or penalty kicks or anything like that. I'm pretty sure there was no rucks, 5v5 in the scrum, all tackling below the waist. (Very long time ago so I may be mixing some of this up). It was very safe, anyway.

awec

Leprechaun rugby is for 7 year olds I think, you play it before progressing to minis.

Neil3030

awec wrote: »

Leprechaun rugby is for 7 year olds I think, you play it before progressing to minis.

Ah ok, maybe I started in minis then.

awec

Neil3030 wrote: »

Ah ok, maybe I started in minis then.

The structure of underage rugby has probably changed significantly since the days when you played.

The ball isn't made out of leather any more either.

The Lost Sheep

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Ok sorry for long intro. This could be a bit out there for the Rugby forum - so sorry mods.

I'm from a soccer background - wouldn't know one end of a Rugby ball to the other - if in fact it is called an end. I like watching Rugby - but think they lose the run of themselves with the importance of it all (sorry - perhaps wrong place to post that).

Tried my son out at soccer and he just didn't like anything about it - to make thing a little worse all his friends are a little younger and he couldn't even play for the team due to the January age change. He told me soccer players use rude words - and talk funny - by the way, I was a little disappointed at what was tolerated with what players were saying to each other, there was little Ronaldos there at only 8 and he wasn't up to it at all. If I was coach - I wouldn't let anyone talk to anyone like that - particulalry when they were teammates and secondly only 8.

I think in hindsight GAA would have been a better direction.

Anyway - for some reason I decided to get him a Rugby ball and we have been playing a bit with it - he is big and strong for his age and loves the idea of holding onto the ball and not letting it go - up to an including taking you out.

He actively asks us to go play with the Rugby ball - but would be a bit too rough for his soccer friends. He would be slow to go to another sport after his first experience - but is coming around.

So a couple of questions -

we live in the Artane area and the coastal area - Sutton to Clontarf is close.

Is he too old already?
How would he start?
Seems daft - but do kids get hurt at that age?
is it very competitive at that age?

I'm big into sports - Golf etc, but I think my son needs a team sport - and I need to get moving asap.

Thanks for any ideas.

No your son is not too old to start. You are never to old to start. Yes kids can get hurt but not often. It is totally uncompetitive in terms of scores not actually being kept and there is no competitive leagues until kids are playing under 13 rugby
Just turn up in Clontarf or Suttonians in whichever is nearer or times most convenient. If he has a rugby ball that's great. Many who play don't play or their parents don't encourage them to pick up a ball outside of when theyre scheduled to train/play.

Neil3030

awec wrote: »

The structure of underage rugby has probably changed significantly since the days when you played.

The ball isn't made out of leather any more either.

Do underage players still get into Ormeau Road for sixpence to watch the Home Nations matches?

Tarf1234

Try Clontarf, the youth set up is brilliantly run with loads of numbers and newcomers at pretty much every age, in fact a lot of kids won't start until secondary school. There are a few contact details in the below link. At that age it is still very much about fun and running around!


http://www.clontarfrugby.com/youth-mini-rugby/u9/

sydthebeat

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Is he too old already ?

hes starting at the right time....

ive had 3 new u15s players this season, and trying to get their basic skills up to a manageable level is a big challenge.

B-D-P--

I started playing at the age of 25, there's no too old for starting. :-)

Trojan

errlloyd wrote: »

Good luck with it, Clontarf were always a lovely team to play against. Suttonians too tbh.

LIES! Suttonians are dirty rotters, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.

FixdePitchmark

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No your son is not too old to start. You are never to old to start. Yes kids can get hurt but not often. It is totally uncompetitive in terms of scores not actually being kept and there is no competitive leagues until kids are playing under 13 rugby
Just turn up in Clontarf or Suttonians in whichever is nearer or times most convenient. If he has a rugby ball that's great. Many who play don't play or their parents don't encourage them to pick up a ball outside of when theyre scheduled to train/play.

To be honest - I'm enjoying throwing one myself. As all new.

So we have been experimenting with spin etc.

I love any ball game and would like to learn more about Rugby. His Grandad played.

FixdePitchmark

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

No your son is not too old to start. You are never to old to start. Yes kids can get hurt but not often. It is totally uncompetitive in terms of scores not actually being kept and there is no competitive leagues until kids are playing under 13 rugby
Just turn up in Clontarf or Suttonians in whichever is nearer or times most convenient. If he has a rugby ball that's great. Many who play don't play or their parents don't encourage them to pick up a ball outside of when theyre scheduled to train/play.

Well at least that is one positve - I am willing to do anything to get him off technology and also to get him into at team sport.

I know he will have time for golf and swimming at a later time.

He loves a bit of rough and tumble - but has had no outlet.

molloyjh

Sounds like rugby is about right for him. Clontarf is a good club too. No reason you couldn't give it a go yourself either for the craic. I didn't start until my 30s!

FixdePitchmark

Ladas

Going to his first training - what should he have ?

Also best place on northside to get the gear ?

Thanks.

Tarf1234

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Ladas

Going to his first training - what should he have ?

Also best place on northside to get the gear ?

Thanks.

You should be able to get all the gear you need in lifestyle in Artane Castle or Elverys in Clarehalll. They're probably the easiest and safest bets. Any studded football boots and a gum shield (most clubs won't let you play without one) are the essentials really. I'd suggest rugby shorts too but wouldn't panic about them.

ike

I coach a team of mini's U10's - all he will need is boots and a gum shield.

Forget about spin passing it's not important. Learn to catch the ball (seriously a lot of kids can't do this at 10-11) and pass it back. In other words be comfortable with the ball in hand

Let the coaches coach him and just encourage him. Thing like his speed, size shape etc don't matter there's room for everyone the pitch.

pickarooney

molloyjh wrote: »

Sounds like rugby is about right for him. Clontarf is a good club too. No reason you couldn't give it a go yourself either for the craic. I didn't start until my 30s!

I started playing golf at 8 and only took up rugby at 35. Gave up the oul golf a while ago though.

My own son is in his first full season at 9. They learn really quickly at that age. The atmosphere is miles better than the football club, full of little arseholes who love themselves that place.

FixdePitchmark

Ok - went down as there was training on.

He was too young - but said feck it - we will go down put gear on and just watch and throw ball around.

Never seen a reaction from him in his life.

The fact it was so technical - trying to work out what they were doing in the drills - he absolutely loved the tackling and was trying to take me down again. .

He said he loved how the kids were told what to do and didn't talk back :eek:

We walked the full training and threw the ball to each other, he is a lot better than I expected, I've been working on the concept of getting him to throw the ball legally to me.

But as was said above, let the coaches d the coaching

Genuinely delighted the way it all went.

Next step his own training - I just realised how big he is for his age - about 2 years bigger.

Great to hear.

When you say he's too young, were you there on the wrong night or do they not have an U8s team?

It's a super sport to be involved in so hope it goes well!

FixdePitchmark

Victor Long Thriller wrote: »

Great to hear.

When you say he's too young, were you there on the wrong night or do they not have an U8s team?

It's a super sport to be involved in so hope it goes well!

Maybe someone can explain rules -

He has just turned 10

In rugby that makes him still under 10 ?

Tim Robbins

Just saw a player last week age 17 who was absolutely amazing and was told he only started last year. So like other's have said, never too old.

awec

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Maybe someone can explain rules -

He has just turned 10

In rugby that makes him still under 10 ?

It goes by the year he was born I think.

The Lost Sheep

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Maybe someone can explain rules -

He has just turned 10

In rugby that makes him still under 10 ?

Rugby age groups are decided by the year kids are born in.
2016/2017
u7 born in 2010
u8 born in 2009
u9 born in 2008
u10 born in 2007 etc

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Just saw a player last week age 17 who was absolutely amazing and was told he only started last year. So like other's have said, never too old.

Never too old. Just look at number of pros who started in the sport and those playing at top of club game who started in late teens

pickarooney

I played Gaelic football the other week with a load of Irish college kids and assorted local 'veterans'. There was one chap who had never seen a football before and he played everyone off the pitch.

B-D-P--

pickarooney wrote: »

I played Gaelic football the other week with a load of Irish college kids and assorted local 'veterans'. There was one chap who had never seen a football before and he played everyone off the pitch.

Bit of a difference between Gaelic and Rugby there.

madds

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Maybe someone can explain rules -

He has just turned 10
In rugby that makes him still under 10 ?

So he was born in 2006 therefore he should be playing with the u11s.
I coach u11s in our club and have been with the side since u7s.
Your son is not too young - we've had 8 new starters with us so far this season which gives us a squad of 46.

His coaches should all have attended the Minis Level I coaching course and will teach him to:
- hold the ball properly
- pass off both sides
- run with the ball in both hands and not tucked under one arm
- fall properly when tackled (knees, hips, shoulder not straight down onto his side or shoulder)
- how to tackle correctly (plant foot, wrap arms, his cheek on opponents arse cheek). There should be absolutely no 'swinging' in the tackle.

Our 8 new lads have a bit to catch up on versus our more experienced guys so we spend a lot of time with them working on the skills above on a Saturday morning at training.

Most importantly it's all about creating an environment where the kids have fun and make friends. Good luck and enjoy.

Btw, in response to an earlier comment above, unfortunately streaming does exist at this level, and it's quite common. Really fail to see why coaches take this approach as they're only alienating players that don't make the 'A side', who will most likely turn their back on the sport.

shaungil

Good advice above. I’m doing under 12’s in the Dublin area ad we’ve picked up 6 in the last 12 months of various abilities. It’s really a case by case situation giving some one to one training and see how they progress before putting them in game situations. We’re lucky we have plenty of coaches so can give them the time and give them a bit of “homework”. It’s still minis and the key factors still have to be fun and inclusive.


Re streaming it is stated in rules that streaming shouldn’t happen and I’ve only seen it happen once in six years. Makes no sense to me that a team does it as they will always dominate as they’re playing a mixed ability team. I understand the logic of lads playing with other strong lads and weaker players getting more time on ball in a weaker team but that only applies if the opposition do the same thing

The Lost Sheep

madds wrote: »

Btw, in response to an earlier comment above, unfortunately streaming does exist at this level, and it's quite common. Really fail to see why coaches take this approach as they're only alienating players that don't make the 'A side', who will most likely turn their back on the sport.

But streaming only happens in a small number of places where it can happen. Coaches take this as they want to win and think its better for 'all' to be playing around same level.

shaungil wrote: »

Good advice above. I’m doing under 12’s in the Dublin area ad we’ve picked up 6 in the last 12 months of various abilities. It’s really a case by case situation giving some one to one training and see how they progress before putting them in game situations. We’re lucky we have plenty of coaches so can give them the time and give them a bit of “homework”. It’s still minis and the key factors still have to be fun and inclusive.
Re streaming it is stated in rules that streaming shouldn’t happen and I’ve only seen it happen once in six years. Makes no sense to me that a team does it as they will always dominate as they’re playing a mixed ability team. I understand the logic of lads playing with other strong lads and weaker players getting more time on ball in a weaker team but that only applies if the opposition do the same thing

Depends in a lot of cases. Ive seen it on occasion in some clubs including my own but that's only done when we know we've a lot and opposition have a lot of numbers and its to make better games. Help the stronger as well as not as strong players.

pickarooney

There's arguments for and against it but it mostly boils down to boosting weaker kids' confidence by playing them with others at their level versus giving them a chance to improve by playing at a higher level.

madds

Well coaches can dress it up any way they like but it's not an approach we embrace. It's also against IRFU guidelines. IMO, by streaming into A and B teams the kids placed in the B side are being told that they aren't good enough, that they are the 'development team'. Now some of those kids might be ok with being told this but others will take it heart, feel their coach does not rate them, and turn their attention to another sport. Yes, your A team may improve because they're playing with each other week in, week out, but I'd wager that your overall pool of available players reduces as time goes on.

Taking the opposite approach and playing balanced teams where all players are treated equally, ensures players don't feel segregated. To ensure all players get time on the ball during a match and prevent the 'better' players from hogging the ball, various measures can be employed - the 3-pass rule for example - meaning everyone continues to enjoy the game and develops so by the time you reach the business age grades (u13 and up) you have a healthy group of players to choose from.

It's minis rugby for God's sake. There's plenty of time for grading teams when they reach under 13's. Let them have fun without feeling they are being tested. Leave the streaming to the GAA and soccer clubs.

The Lost Sheep

madds wrote: »

Well coaches can dress it up any way they like but it's not an approach we embrace. It's also against IRFU guidelines. IMO, by streaming into A and B teams the kids placed in the B side are being told that they aren't good enough, that they are the 'development team'. Now some of those kids might be ok with being told this but others will take it heart, feel their coach does not rate them, and turn their attention to another sport. Yes, your A team may improve because they're playing with each other week in, week out, but I'd wager that your overall pool of available players reduces as time goes on.

Taking the opposite approach and playing balanced teams where all players are treated equally, ensures players don't feel segregated. To ensure all players get time on the ball during a match and prevent the 'better' players from hogging the ball, various measures can be employed - the 3-pass rule for example - meaning everyone continues to enjoy the game and develops so by the time you reach the business age grades (u13 and up) you have a healthy group of players to choose from.

It's minis rugby for God's sake. There's plenty of time for grading teams when they reach under 13's. Let them have fun without feeling they are being tested. Leave the streaming to the GAA and soccer clubs.

I just think you have to look to player safety and enjoyment as well. If you streamline the games based on ability in theory all players will be at a more level playing field and should be able to enjoy the game more. They can be more involved. If you have 2 "balanced" teams the guys who would be better on an A team will just dominate much more

madds

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I just think you have to look to player safety and enjoyment as well. If you streamline the games based on ability in theory all players will be at a more level playing field and should be able to enjoy the game more. They can be more involved. If you have 2 "balanced" teams the guys who would be better on an A team will just dominate much more

Do you not think the onus is then placed on the coaches to ensure the stronger players don't dominate the match by playing the 3-pass rule, making everyone gets an opportunity to restart, play at 10, scrumhalf etc.?

Anyway, we obviously differ on the merits or not of streaming and that's ok. Will be interesting to see how it works out for our respective teams as they move on from here to Youths.

The Lost Sheep

madds wrote: »

Do you not think the onus is then placed on the coaches to ensure the stronger players don't dominate the match by playing the 3-pass rule, making everyone gets an opportunity to restart, play at 10, scrumhalf etc.?

Anyway, we obviously differ on the merits or not of streaming and that's ok. Will be interesting to see how it works out for our respective teams as they move on from here to Youths.

Im not directly coaching any team at these ages this season but for all good intentions in world a 3 pass rule etc just isn't going to happen all the time. I think where possible you can use streaming to help all even at 10/11 years of age

shaungil

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Im not directly coaching any team at these ages this season but for all good intentions in world a 3 pass rule etc just isn't going to happen all the time. I think where possible you can use streaming to help all even at 10/11 years of age

Well the IRFU disagree so I'm going to keep following their rules. Merits in both but rules are set. Funny enough I've heard stirrings of non competitive age been increased.