French government buys 15 TGVs to try to save Alstom factory

MGWR

The Local

The French government has confirmed that it will order 15 high-speed TGV trains in a bid to prevent the historic Alstom train-building plant from closing. ...

Normally the state-owned rail operator SNCF would be in charge of ordering new trains, but given the plight of the Belfort factory and the small matter of a looming presidential election, the government has chosen to act on its own. ...

In another move by the government the Belfort factory will also be given the job of building electric buses in a partnership with car giant Peugeot. And the site will also become the main centre for train maintenance. ...

Prime Minister Manuel Valls said the plan to close a plant where Alstom built its first steam train in 1880 was "out of the question". ...

ted1

Does that constitute as state aid.

cml387

In a way it's gratifying to see parish pump politics is not a purely Irish phenomenon.

JackieChan

Surely this is against EU state aid support laws?

Jamie2k9

JackieChan wrote: »

Surely this is against EU state aid support laws?

The EU set rules but they can be very flexible and selectively applied!

MGWR

ted1 wrote: »

Does that constitute as state aid.

Looks to me like both state aid and buying votes.

Funny thing is, in a social market economy, government interference in the marketplace is allowed, so how can such moves ultimately be against EU laws, otherwise they'd contradict themselves?

goingnowhere

State aid rules are easy to beat

Just specify something which only your local outfit can build and make sure to run it as a framework agreement so you can by lots more later without need to tender again

Alstom has a fairly rocky past, been close to collapse several times and the other build train builders have caught up and sailed past in product terms, Siemens, Bombardier, Stadler etc. The Chinese and Japanese are now rolling into Europe. The mess in the late 1990's with shocking build quality made Alstom no friends.

ClovenHoof

Fair play to the French Government.

Grandeeod

Before State Aid was an issue, Ireland were leaders. Van Hool in Inchicore. Bombardier in Shannon. Inchicore works in general with the MK3 thing. Even down to feckin model railways.....Jouef. (again in Shannon)

MGWR

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Fair play to the French Government.

There are other ways of keeping Alstom's Belfort factory open. The socialist way merely keeps it on life support.

tabbey

I was in France three weeks ago.

The TV news each evening majored on this story, usually having an interview with the mayor of Belfort, and the disaster closure would be to the town.

It reminded me of the UK in the 1970s, when both conservative and labour governments pandered to British Leyland and Upper Clyde Shipbuilders.
Like her or loath her, Thatcher changed all that.

ClovenHoof

MGWR wrote: »

There are other ways of keeping Alstom's Belfort factory open. The socialist way merely keeps it on life support.

Once the skills are lost they are lost forever.

Anyways, in Ireland we give billions to the banks as state aid. At least France gets a factory that makes trains.

What do we get?

Jamie2k9

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Once the skills are lost they are lost forever.

Anyways, in Ireland we give billions to the banks as state aid. At least France gets a factory that makes trains.

What do we get?

And what will France get when those 15 trains are complete? another 15?

ClovenHoof

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

And what will France get when those 15 trains are complete? another 15?

well it would better than another pay raise for civil servants like you would get here.

at least there would be something tangible to show for it and it might give the train builder/employees time to develop a survival plan rather than the doors being locked closed for good.

GreenFolder2

France has always done things like this.

EDF (the French version of ESB) got whacked with an enormous ruling recently over illegal state aid. The EU demanded they pay back €1.37 billion. That was the largest ever rulling until the Apple one.

They'll chance their arm on it and see if they can get away with it to save the jobs.

It's called "la politique du clocher" in French.

France and Ireland aren't actually very different on a whole load of levels. However France in many ways is a bit more like Ireland in the 80s when it comes to government spending money on projects to create artificial jobs.

You can be 200% sure Germany will lodge a complaint as this undermines Siemens.

Jamie2k9

ClovenHoof wrote: »

well it would better than another pay raise for civil servants like you would get here.

at least there would be something tangible to show for it and it might give the train builder/employees time to develop a survival plan rather than the doors being locked closed for good.

The French wouldn't of accepted cuts in the first place......this is socialist France after all.

MGWR

ClovenHoof wrote: »

Once the skills are lost they are lost forever.

Anyways, in Ireland we give billions to the banks as state aid. At least France gets a factory that makes trains.

What do we get?

False dilemma. I said there are other ways to save the Alstom plant than actions such as this. Socialists will not acknowledge those ways, however.

dowlingm

The French tried to prevent Eurostar from buying Siemens to protect Alstom. It would be amusing if DB demanded the right to tender for the lease of these TGVs from the Government to form an SNCF competitor for internal services.