Farmer wants to put cows on my land.

El Kabong!

Hi

I am not a farmer but i have a few acres. I am growing willow and some fruit trees on it. A local farmer cuts the grass and I let him have the bales. No money changes hands and its been going on for 3 to 4 years.

Now he has asked to put up some elec fence and put cattle on for a few weeks.

I have public liability but I dont think it covers animals. Would that matter or would his insurance cover it? My borders are good so I dont think they could get out. He also owns the field on one side.

Is there anything i should be worried about?

Thanks

liam7831

I think it would be a bad idea as your field will be left in sh it this time of the yr. He is already getting a great deal with the free silage.

El Kabong!

Thanks. Do you mean it will be turned to mud and wouldnt recover?

liam7831

El Kabong! wrote: »

Thanks. Do you mean it will be turned to mud and wouldnt recover?

Pretty much at this time of year. What part of the country are you in ?

I doubt he would put them in his own silage fields going towards November

El Kabong!

Thanks. Its in Fingal on the border with meath.

liam7831

El Kabong! wrote: »

Thanks. Its in Fingal on the border with meath.[/
Depends on the number of animals and size of field if it's only 5 or 6 in 5 or 6 acres twoud be ok

El Kabong!

Theres about 4 useable acres. Do you have an opinion on the insurance? If they got out and a car hit one would I be liable?

punisher5112

El Kabong! wrote: »

Theres about 4 useable acres. Do you have an opinion on the insurance? If they got out and a car hit one would I be liable?

Cattle owner responsible

liam7831

El Kabong! wrote: »

Theres about 4 useable acres. Do you have an opinion on the insurance? If they got out and a car hit one would I be liable?

I don't know that tbh

Mooooo

Ask him what type of stock he intends to put there, in your location assuming good ground i assume the conditions would be ok. Tell him lighter animals would be ok and if weather turns bad or underfoot conditions get messy they must go. once he is checking them everyday they should be fine. On the insurance you could ring your own company and see or else get him to add it to his policy for a bit. If he is milking cows it may actually be easier if the cows went in as they could clear the grass in a day or two and it would be job done. It may be beneficial for next year if he intends to put cattle on it as well he is more or less using it all the time so get a lease drawn up and charge rent. A few hundred quid for you going out the gate there

ganmo

punisher5112 wrote: »

Cattle owner responsible

Yup cattle owner is responsible

blue5000

ganmo wrote: »

Yup cattle owner is responsible

Are you sure? If there is no formal lease in place, they might not be covered by cattle owner's public liability. Insurance companies love a bit of wriggle room these days.

El Kabong!

Thanks. It all sounds like a bit too much hassle to me.

We've got a good thing going with the grass cutting and I think I will leave it at that.

I'm wondering now if he will gain any rights to use the land if I just let him cut the grass every year. Do I need to stop him from using it one year every x years to reset the clock?

OverRide

Insist on an agreement with a timeline say 6 weeks,signed and witnessed for insurance purposes
He is then likely to beliable but get written confirmation of this from his insurance company

Your field should be a dryish one and certainly is in a dryer part of the country
Obviously if you still have fruit trees on it the cattle will damage them
Don't let more than 10 or 12 big cattle onto it

OverRide

El Kabong! wrote: »

Thanks. It all sounds like a bit too much hassle to me.

We've got a good thing going with the grass cutting and I think I will leave it at that.

I'm wondering now if he will gain any rights to use the land if I just let him cut the grass every year. Do I need to stop him from using it one year every x years to reset the clock?

I wouldn't think so,you are giving him the silage as payment for cutting the grass/tidying up the field
Again for reassurance get this documented i.e. Issue an invoice or something,payment being bales

ganmo

blue5000 wrote: »

Are you sure? If there is no formal lease in place, they might not be covered by cattle owner's public liability. Insurance companies love a bit of wriggle room these days.

Herd keepers responsibility to ensure fields are stock proof. That's my understanding

Musketeer4

Don't let him put the cattle in there. Certainly not if he's not paying you. He's getting a sweet deal already with the free bales from it.

One thing is that it might be hard to get him to take the cattle out if they start mucking the place up. It could lead to a falling out. Some fellas are notorious for this, they sweet talk their way into a place and are a pain to get out.

Other thing is that they cattle will make shíte of your fruit trees. So just tell him so and that he can't use the field.

El Kabong!

TBH I think he is OK. The money aspect doesn't concern me and I don't mind him getting a good deal, I just am happy to have somebody cutting the grass and keeping an eye on the place. Whether the cuts the grass with a tractor or cattle makes no difference. Some day I might need the favour returned and hopefully he will remember.
He has said he will put electric fencing up where needed and specifically called out the fruit trees so I know he is aware of my concerns. When he cuts the grass he works in and around any areas I have planted.
Also, I have plans for the land, I'm gradually planting more and more, so in the next few years it won't be worth his while going in at all, so I'm not worried about some long term arrangement.
If he wouldn't let the cattle out for me then I would ring him and tell him I'm opening the gate at x PM and let him deal with it.....

Musketeer4

If he wouldn't let the cattle out for me then I would ring him and tell him I'm opening the gate at x PM and let him deal with it.....

You can't do that. You could kill people if a car runs into them and it will be 110% YOUR fault.
Nor can you say you are going to have them shot because a) no kackery man will take them away without paperwork b) you'd have to pay for it and c) you'd have to pay damages to the farmer.

You see, it is actually exceedingly difficult to get someone to remove stock that have outstayed their welcome. That is why you just should not let them in in the first place.

Mooooo

If he has land next door you can just turn them into it. You know your neighbour better than anyone here so once ye know where ye stand with each other ye should be fine

Musketeer4

Oh, you mean open the gate into the next field? Sorry I misunderstood. I though you were going to put them out onto the road.

El Kabong!

So he is saying about 7 for about 3 weeks.
I'm a very obliging person and try not to assume the worst in people, you cant live life that way!
I have no plans to do anything on the land until the winter season when I will planting up another section with some native trees. If he has cattle on it then I guess he will be up there every day to check on them etc. so that is handy for me to have somebody there.

I wonder what he will do for water. There is a small ditch/stream but I guess he might run something in from his own field. I'm not sure what equipment would be required for this. Do you think he will need to put something on the land that would cause me trouble? I don't want anything permanent/awkward.
Shows how much I know about cattle!

El Kabong!

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Oh, you mean open the gate into the next field? Sorry I misunderstood. I though you were going to put them out onto the road.

No you were right! But I meant I would do it when he arrives down and he can then direct them into his field. If he didn't arrive down then I guess I would have to adjust the hedgerow/fence to get them back into his field.
I wouldn't do anything that would endanger anyway, or the cattle themselves.

Mooooo

Ask him if he is thinking of fencing down to the stream to give the cattle water, which with only 7 should be fine. On the other hand if his land is close all he needs to do is connect a pipe to his water supply and leave a small water trough there, won't need to do any digging the pipe can be left above ground a small plastic trough would do the cattle. Talk it out with him

Water John

Yeah, 7 probably dry cows would be fine on 4 acres. Grazing it down, good on all sides. I would take a 'nominal rent' for the use esp the bales eg €10/100 so its clear there are no rights considered by default.

El Kabong!

Thanks all.
I really don't want to get into any hassle with agreements etc. Do you think it's good enough to lay it out in a text with a response from him or do I need to go to a solicitor etc.
Not really sure what normal practice is.

Water John

No need for a sol IMO. Just get a bit of money by cheque or debit, not cash.

Ten Pin

not cash.

Would cash be OK if he gives him a receipt with details "Received sum of X from Y for rent of 4 acres grazing for 1 month for 7 cattle from 10 Oct to 9 Nov 2016"

Water John

Yeah, he could put in as an expense on his accounts also.

Good loser

Water John wrote: »

No need for a sol IMO. Just get a bit of money by cheque or debit, not cash.

That's too fussy for the situation here.

Let him in no bother is my advice; the grass will be the better for being grazed.

Water John

Always better to preempt any legals for whatever reason. That is why I would have the little charge.
As a decency he should throw you a few bob anyway.

mf240

The way I look at it is that once you start going down the road of solicitors and legalities your losing.

If he's sound shake his hand on the deal.

If he's dodgy leave him at his own side of the ditch.

Water John

Right MF. No need for the sledgehammer but do it right all the same.

El Kabong!

Well I about faced and told him he couldn't do it. It was all amicable and of course he can still continue to cut the grass twice a year at some financial benefit to him.
TBH my biggest concern was if the elec fencing failed for some reason and the cows got at my fruit trees and willow... there could be years of growth ruined.
Thanks!

_Brian

blue5000 wrote: »

Are you sure? If there is no formal lease in place, they might not be covered by cattle owner's public liability. Insurance companies love a bit of wriggle room these days.

Case Not to far from here where a lad put cattle on rented ground, he was told land was insured. Cattle broke out and serious accident occurred where a lad was paralysed, FBD wouldn't cover stock as they didn't belong to landowne, guy lost everything.

OverRide

Aye the farmer for public liability has to include the be land(yours op) on his policy or he's not covered which may open the way for you to be sued
But It's most likely the cattle owner they'd go after though

Water John

I think you made a good call there OP. One must always be concious of risk.
Fair balance and no falling out.

J.O. Farmer

OverRide wrote: »

Aye the farmer for public liability has to include the be land(yours op) on his policy or he's not covered which may open the way for you to be sued
But It's most likely the cattle owner they'd go after though

It's the cattle that cause the accident and it is the herd owner who is responsible for keeping them under control. The herd owner shouldn't put the cattle in unless the boundaries are stockproof.

Water John

Yeah, but anyone with a claim will always go after the most likely source of payment. They decide that, not you.