Non Pressurised Filter

Planet X

......just got one for my Gaggia Classic.
Quiet cheap actually.
Now.....do I need to alter my grind size bigger or leave it the same as I use for my pressurised filter?
Cheers.

J_E

You didn't say what size it is or what grinder you use, that would really help in judging what is best!

You might want to experiment a bit because both the grind and the tamp now start to matter. Try something around the consistency of granulated sugar to start and see how long it takes to extract. If it's a double filter (14g) you should be typically looking at about 60ml in 30 seconds for a standard shot. It should be coming out as a nice speckled brown 'tail' of liquid, not spurting out or dripping slowly. A good espresso will not just have crema but have quality crema - that lovely reddish-brown speckled look, you know it's a perfect coffee then.

For tamping (do tamp), put a decent amount of force into it without overexerting, try to make a right angle between your forearm and upper arm so that you push evenly downwards, if the puck of coffee is crooked one side will barely drip through while the other passes too fast. It takes a bit of time to get used to. Don't be too worried about it for now, just try to see how evenly it comes out when you do it, go with it, don't try tamping over and over or you'll compress the grind too hard and it will be either messy or you won't get anything dripping out.

Enrico Palazzo

You need to go down towards finer.

Planet X

Baratza Encore set at #6. 0 to 40.The size or order was a Gaggia NFO8/005.

Planet X

Enrico Palazzo wrote: »

You need to go down towards finer.

Not much left to dial as it's down quiet low atm., below 10.
So, you say finer, the above poster says, coarser.
What's up guys?

Planet X

Gaggia NF08/005.

Krusty_Clown

Planet X wrote: »

Not much left to dial as it's down quiet low atm., below 10.
So, you say finer, the above poster says, coarser.
What's up guys?

If I had to hazard a guess (it was a while back), moving to a non pressurised basket, my grind went a little bit coarser. I'm forever tweaking mine based on the type of bean/roast profile, extraction time etc. Instead of asking whether it should be coarser or finer, you should be experimenting to find the right grind level. Some things you just have to work out.

Planet X

Yeah....it seems........was just wanting a general idea before I "burn" a load of beans,
"Higher or lower" as they say on the game show
Coarser or, can't go much finer.

Planet X

So.....I've just brewed at setting #13 on Encore.
Zero crema, flavour not as intense.....acceptable, milder.
Have never ground that coarse before, it's COARSE

Oh, do I leave the Gaggia Black Crema filter pin in or not? I did and well......nothing as expected I suppose.

Krusty_Clown

Sounds way too coarse. How long is it taking to pull the double shot?

Planet X

Enrico Palazzo

Pressurised basket handles the pressure buildup alone, without help from the puck and needs to work with different coffee particle sizes (as it's meant to work with preground coffee), so generally you use grinds on the coarser end of the espresso scale with it, as the basket will nevertheless produce a similar pressure regardless of the grind, unless you go too fine, which would increase pressure and could block the filter. Hence my advice to try finer first, but there are more variables - e.g. different non-pressurised basket require different grind settings (and can dramatically influence the flavour!), so it is still possible you have to go in the opposite direction, although less likely.

Planet X

Think I'll go back to 6, the setting I used for the pressurised basket.
Did an 8 and not a huge difference,

J_E

What is the dose size for the basket? For a great ristretto shot in a 14/18g basket it should be taking about 25-30 seconds for a 30ml double, for a standard about 50-60ml in 30 seconds. You should be looking at the flow. Did you put water into that shot? It looks quite weak. Is the coffee fresh also? Coffee beans over a month old just won't produce the right crema.

Are you tamping it well? So many factors come into play here. It's hard to gauge what you are doing purely by the grind setting.

Is the machine clean? Are you properly backflushing it with detergent, or have you ever? Is there coffee grind blocking the filter pin? I would say you will get better results without it.

Planet X

There is water in the shot.
Machine is regularly cleaned.
Beans are ground.
Don't weigh even though I have a digital scales, yes, the small gram ones.
Prefer not to time things like that or weigh what goes into the basket as long as when tamped, the coffee will not be near the shower head.

J_E

Even if you'd rather not use the scales, see how much a scoop of coffee weighs. As long as it's somewhat consistent, you'll get away with not using a scales, but even as much as a gram of coffee can be the difference between a shot that runs too fast (sour) and one that hits that sweet spot.

Everything adds up, it is just strange! It should come out looking thick and a dark speckled brown, taste really intense as a shot. Maybe the filter is stopping you from getting that perfect shot. Crema enhancers etc tend to be ok for producing serviceable coffee without too much input but will never be able to give the best results.

Krusty_Clown

Planet X wrote: »

Beans are ground.

Do you mean you're using pre-ground coffee, or the beans are ground just before you use the coffee?

The roasting date/time of the bean also makes a huge difference to the crema. I've been buying those large 1kg bags of Lavazza as a go-to for my rushed morning flat white and while I still get a decent shot from the /gaggia classic, it is nothing like using freshly roasted beans. Recently I picked up some Rob Roberts beans from the supermarket shelves, and even this bean produced a distinctly better shot than the Lavazza coffee. I normally reserve my good coffee (B&D, Baileys, CoffeMojo) for the Hario/Aeropress (in work), but when I do use it in the grinder/Gaggia the crema is worlds apart form the Lavazza.

Planet X

Sorry.......grind my own in a Baratza Encore, fresh from Badger & Dodo.

Planet X

Don't get me wrong..... I have been getting cracking coffee from my pressurised basket for the last two years, just thought I'd give a non p. basket a shot.

Just experimenting really. Will go back to my pressurised basket tomo prob.

J_E

It does take more time to learn how to do it manually - I do feel the results are worth it though. You will always be limited with the pressurised filter. It could be that you might need to adjust the way you tamp. Can you get it at a stage where it runs out too slowly, and slightly adjust from there?