Buy or rent?

Augmnt

Hi,

I am 32, single and currently renting\working in Dublin.

I have around 260k in savings and am thinking about buying a property in the 350-450 range to live in.
Is this a good move the way property is right now? Mainly I don't want to rent anymore, its too much pain. Properties are overpriced and grim.
But I don't really want to buy as its a bit of a commitment.

Any thoughts?, I was thinking about buying an apartment but prices look mad for modest places. Would it be silly to buy apartment in Dublin?.

Claw Hammer

If you don't want to rent, you will have to buy. If you don't want to buy, you will have to rent. You need to make up your mind.

Moonbeam

It is a hard decision to make but if you can find a house in an area that you like , I would buy. If you can't then I would rent.
I would not buy for the sake of buying if the house is not exactly what you want.

blindside88

Do you plan on staying in Dublin for the next number of years? If so buying may be a decent move if you can find somewhere that you would be happy to live in for the next 5-10 years. If you feel you will have a family during this time I would stay away from apartments as you may them need to sell and buy a larger property

pwurple

Moonbeam wrote: »

It is a hard decision to make but if you can find a house in an area that you like , I would buy. If you can't then I would rent.
I would not buy for the sake of buying if the house is not exactly what you want.

No one would buy any home at all if they waited for exactly what they want, unless they have an unlimited budget.

I've bought and sold a few places so far, as my needs and location changed. I was happy enough with them, but none were exactly perfect.
New build had teething problems, dust, and builders rubble for a garden.
Apartment had great location, but the occasional annoying neighbour.
Countryside was peaceful, but expensive/time-consuming with transportation.
Suburbia was grand, but neither the peace of the country or the buzz of a city.
City house is where I am now. Love it, but couldn't afford as big a place as I would have liked.
There's a compromise somewhere, whatever you do.


OP, Is your 260 in savings earning decent interest? It's nice to have a backup fund for sure, but I'd want it to be working for me. Not necessarily in property, but in something. Fund, shares, a business... something.

What are your employment plans? If you're staying put for 5 years... to me that's long enough to look to buy if possible.

SarahMollie

There are pros and cons associated wtih both options, you just have to decide what you can live with. Renting is annoying because the standard of properties is typically not that good, and supply is scarce. Its insecure as your LL could always decide to sell, and then you're back to competing wtih tonnes of others for the few decent properties.

On the other hand, finding the right property to buy is no mean feat. Its also competitive, and your budget while decent, is also going to put you competing with a lot of couples - very crowded market. Then you've all the costs associated with the sale (stamp duty, valuation, survey etc) and then you're responsible for any maintenance issues that arise. And mortgage interest rates are pretty high.

There is no panacea that is instantly going to guarantee you an easy existence.

Augmnt

Pwurple thanks for reply.

Unfortunately no, savings are only earning the sparse interest rates available from Irish banks.

I haven't had the time to look into investing. Just another reason pushing me towards either buying property or moving money outside the Country.

Harvey Normal

Augmnt wrote: »

Pwurple thanks for reply.

Unfortunately no, savings are only earning the sparse interest rates available from Irish banks.

I haven't had the time to look into investing. Just another reason pushing me towards either buying property or moving money outside the Country.

Buy cheap (a one bed property) and do both. Use the saving from rentals to add to your existing pile of savings.

keane2097

This may be worth playing around with OP:

http://www.ronanlyons.com/2010/04/20/your-very-own-rent-or-buy-calculator/

MouseTail

When you say buying is a commitment, what is offputting about that, do you not foresee yourself building your career and life in Dublin? To me, it appears madness to have that cash earning practically zero interest whilst paying the rents commanded in Dublin providing you aren't planning on moving abroad/elsewhere in Ireland in the short/mid term.

4ensic15

Buy an ex-council house in a settled area. When you want out, it will sell rapidly. ex-council houses are the least prone to major drops in value as there are always people who grew up in the area wanting to buy.

Augmnt

Council estate?, not for me.

Wouldnt be too interested in 1bed appartment either.

4ensic15

Augmnt wrote: »

Council estate?, not for me.

.

For the sort of money you are talking about you will get no house in any half decent area of Dublin that is not an ex-council house. Apartments are a waste of money. Stay renting.

Kings Inns or bust

It pains me to agree with 4ensic so strongly and twice in one thread.

I'm not sure why a council estate would not be for you, perhaps you're a bit worried you wouldn't fit in with a group of hardworking friendly people, personally it was my idea of heaven but horses for courses. Keep firing the money into a Cavan LL's pocket in south Dublin R's. An alternative is a two bed in the Docklands which you'd barely be able to afford, you'd also want to be well lubricated coming up to management fee time!

blacklilly

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

It pains me to agree with 4ensic so strongly and twice in one thread.

I'm not sure why a council estate would not be for you, perhaps you're a bit worried you wouldn't fit in with a group of hardworking friendly people, personally it was my idea of heaven but horses for courses. Keep firing the money into a Cavan LL's pocket in south Dublin R's. An alternative is a two bed in the Docklands which you'd barely be able to afford, you'd also want to be well lubricated coming up to management fee time!

Your post sounds like you've a chip on your shoulder.

The OP is perfectly entitled not to want to buy in a council estate, everyone has preferences. There are hard working friendly people in many places, they don't reside solely in council estates and many would argue few do.

OP don't just buy because you have the funds to do so, you may be better off investing in stocks as others have mentioned. It all depends on the level of risk you are willing to take ad whether you want to put down roots.

Kings Inns or bust

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

It pains me to agree with 4ensic so strongly and twice in one thread.

I'm not sure why a council estate would not be for you, perhaps you're a bit worried you wouldn't fit in with a group of hardworking friendly people, personally it was my idea of heaven but horses for courses. Keep firing the money into a Cavan LL's pocket in south Dublin R's. An alternative is a two bed in the Docklands which you'd barely be able to afford, you'd also want to be well lubricated coming up to management fee time!

In fairness you won't find many people wanting to buy in council estates, I wouldn't dream of it myself.

SarahMollie

Livia Thousands Birdbath wrote: »

In fairness you won't find many people wanting to buy in council estates, I wouldn't dream of it myself.

Nox - literally everyone on this forum knows you want to build some pile in a rural area. You also seem to have an allergy to Dublin so its not surprising to me that you've had this response.

Plenty of people are interested in ex council stock. Much of it has been in private hands for decades. There are ex council houses in some of the best and most established areas in Dublin including Dundrum, Killiney, Donnybrook, Clontarf, Drumcondra, Sandymount, Dalkey... areas that people are queuing up to live in. The ex council stock in those areas are in extremely high demand.

SarahMollie

SarahMollie wrote: »

Nox - literally everyone on this forum knows you want to build some pile in a rural area. You also seem to have an allergy to Dublin so its not surprising to me that you've had this response.

Plenty of people are interested in ex council stock. Much of it has been in private hands for decades. There are ex council houses in some of the best and most established areas in Dublin including Dundrum, Killiney, Donnybrook, Clontarf, Drumcondra, Sandymount, Dalkey... areas that people are queuing up to live in. The ex council stock in those areas are in extremely high demand.

First off there is a difference between an ex-council estate and a council estate and I didn't mention Dublin at all good or bad.

SarahMollie

Livia Thousands Birdbath wrote: »

First off there is a difference between an ex-council estate and a council estate and I didn't mention Dublin at all good or bad.

Well you cant just buy into a current council estate (as they only sell to the existing tenants if theres some sort of scheme running). So ex council is whats being talked about here, obviously. Pretty sure you were just making a sweeping statement which sounded extremely snobbish.

The OP lives in Dublin, and is planning on buying or renting in Dublin, so its pretty relevant.

Kings Inns or bust

blacklilly wrote: »

Your post sounds like you've a chip on your shoulder.

The OP is perfectly entitled not to want to buy in a council estate, everyone has preferences. There are hard working friendly people in many places, they don't reside solely in council estates and many would argue few do.

OP don't just buy because you have the funds to do so, you may be better off investing in stocks as others have mentioned. It all depends on the level of risk you are willing to take ad whether you want to put down roots.

I certainly do.

Idbatterim

the reality is you can buy an apartment outright for that, easily. Depends, if you are paying current market rents, Id probably be buying. If you are onto a good thing, with a landlord who is currently letting at recession rates, its a bit more complex...

in terms of prices, yeah many are mad, I would forget anything over 300k for a 2 bed. the notion of half a million etc to be surrounded by all sides and have no control over neighbors, who could be letting on airbnb etc. Its a joke.

Augmnt

"Kings Inns or bust" I dont get why you point out that council estates are full of hardworking people. Is it to suggest other areas are not?
If anything could the opposite not be suggested. Wouldn't a lot of council estates have people on benefits?

Anyway the reason I would be worried about council estates is down to anti-social behavior. I would general associates theses areas as a much bigger risk.

Surely 450k would get something outside of bad areas.

Brussels Sprout

My sister bought an ex-council house in an older working class area of Dublin about 15 years ago when she faced a similar dilemma (it was that, something in a commuter town or keep renting). There were plenty salt of the earth good and decent folk in the neighbourhood. Unfortunately there were also a few utter scumbags. In the 7 or 8 years that she lived there she experienced the following incidents:

• Her husband's car was burned out in the driveway one night
• They had the house burgled when they were out of Dublin for the weekend
• Another car had its back windscreen smashed in
• She awoke one morning to find gardai in her back garden in the process of raiding a criminal who had moved in next door

The guards were wonderful but powerless for all of the above. The other neighbours commiserated as they had experienced these incidents themselves. In the end they had enough and moved to a nicer area back in 2013 (they did in fact sell to someone who had grown up in the area)

I'm posting this as some posters in the thread seem to be implying that anyone who wouldn't want to live in a council estate is a snob and that's the end of it when in fact they might just fear any or all of the above happening to them.

athtrasna

Mod note

Firstly, as per the forum charter, no sweeping generalisations about council houses and their tenants please.

Secondly buying a council house was never suggested. Buying an ex council house was. Huge difference. Was broken hearted to lose out on a fabulous ex council house in a very nice suburb of south county Dublin some time ago. Went for closer to a million than to half a million in the end. Almost the entire road was privately owned and renovated.

Harvey Normal

Augmnt wrote: »

Council estate?, not for me.

Wouldnt be too interested in 1bed appartment either.

The point about buying the cheap 1 bedroom is to stop paying rent. If you buy for cash the rent you will save the rent you are now paying. Invest that. The saved rent is a far greater return than anything else you would get for the money.

When ready move on.

Buying isn't a huge commitment - just move on. Sell it or rent it.

The last thing you want to do is make that money disappear into a non performing asset.

Other option is to get a 300k+ 3 bed room house. So somewhere cheap. Rent out the other two rooms. That will generate income higher than the mortgage.

Kings Inns or bust

Augmnt wrote: »

"Kings Inns or bust" I dont get why you point out that council estates are full of hardworking people. Is it to suggest other areas are not?
If anything could the opposite not be suggested. Wouldn't a lot of council estates have people on benefits?

Anyway the reason I would be worried about council estates is down to anti-social behavior. I would general associates theses areas as a much bigger risk.

Surely 450k would get something outside of bad areas.

It was the off hand nature of your comment. Which given my admitted chip resulted in an off hand comment from me. Fair play to you for coming back and clarifying your position. Dublin property snobbery is a bee in my particular bonnet - there are some very odd notions out there, those notions can be turned to your advantage if you're canny enough, but at the same time it's entirely up to you where you live. I would be slow to count out entire areas.

As for people on benefits, any area, private or not could have social tenants. I know of one lady with a very nice flat, a stone's throw from Ballsbridge. In my particular council estate almost everyone owns their homes now. Four streets over you'd not get much change for a million for a 3/4 bed. Conversely 4 streets over the other way you'd have me engaging my own social prejudice.

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

I'm posting this as some posters in the thread seem to be implying that anyone who wouldn't want to live in a council estate is a snob and that's the end of it when in fact they might just fear any or all of the above happening to them.

There is a world of difference between someone thinking you're a snob for saying you wouldn't live in any ex, current or mixed council estate and not wanting to live in one with social issues. It's exactly the same as people who say they would not live in any area of North Dublin. There is also a world of difference buying at the tail end of the boom in Sheepmoor, for example, than there is in carefully looking at an area with the odd rough around character that has seen a steady improvement even during the downturn.

To be completely fair I'm also well aware that I fit into a working class area. The particular area in which I live, the wife seems to fit into too; despite her being ardently middle class she's pretty easy going and get's more miles out of a euro than anyone else I know so where we picked was right for us. Some people will fit better into a middle class area, personally - for example and having worked out there for some time - I find many of the denizens of Dundrum to completely insufferable; other people think it's God's gift to suburban living.

4ensic15

Augmnt wrote: »

Surely 450k would get something outside of bad areas.

All it would buy is a lower middle class suburb in a remote area.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

All it would buy is a lower middle class suburb in a remote area.

You might get something in a 'nicer' area in Raheny to be fair. Probably ex council built, or at least looking as if it was. You could also get into one of the privately built areas in D8/7 with some more of the colourful citizens of urban Dublin.

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

You might get something in a 'nicer' area in Raheny to be fair. Probably ex council built, or at least looking as if it was. You could also get into one of the privately built areas in D8/7 with some more of the colourful citizens of urban Dublin.

O/p wants to buy non-council in a nicer area. I wouldn't call the areas of D7 or D8 with houses in the sub €450k bracket as being nicer areas.

SarahMollie

If OP is willing to consider an apartment or a duplex, he could get something really nice in a good area. The bonus is that he's less likely to be competing with families for the elusive 3 bed semi-d with small garden.

If you avoid developments wtih lifts or electric gates, the management fees tend to be on the lower end of the scale. Mine are €1k~ per year which I find perfectly reasonable as they include bins, block insurance and outside maintenance of the property.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

O/p wants to buy non-council in a nicer area. I wouldn't call the areas of D7 or D8 with houses in the sub €450k bracket as being nicer areas.

It's so variable though. To be fair he's said not council, not a bad area. SCR would satisfy that as would Rialto - apparently... There are also pockets of D7.

Would you, or more importantly the OP consider Kilmainham a bad area?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/7-lorne-terrace-kilmainham-dublin-8/3742335?RegionId=1449&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=450000&MinBeds=&MaxBeds=&MinSize=&MaxSize=&MinEnergyRating=&Query=&PreSixtyThree=false&Page=&view=list

Personally I think it has it's moment s but overall I thought it was menat to be pretty good these days?

Alkers

Do you currently live alone or are you happy to house share? I would look into buying and then renting out a room or rooms. You can legally earn up to €12,000 each year tax free from doing this.

Neon_Lights

Augmnt wrote: »

Hi,

I am 32, single and currently renting\working in Dublin.

I have around 260k in savings and am thinking about buying a property in the 350-450 range to live in.
Is this a good move the way property is right now? Mainly I don't want to rent anymore, its too much pain. Properties are overpriced and grim.
But I don't really want to buy as its a bit of a commitment.

Any thoughts?, I was thinking about buying an apartment but prices look mad for modest places. Would it be silly to buy apartment in Dublin?.

260k savings what do you do for a living, thats some serious dollah

4ensic15

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

It's so variable though. To be fair he's said not council, not a bad area. SCR would satisfy that as would Rialto - apparently... There are also pockets of D7.

Would you, or more importantly the OP consider Kilmainham a bad area?

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/7-lorne-terrace-kilmainham-dublin-8/3742335?RegionId=1449&MinPrice=&MaxPrice=450000&MinBeds=&MaxBeds=&MinSize=&MaxSize=&MinEnergyRating=&Query=&PreSixtyThree=false&Page=&view=list

Personally I think it has it's moment s but overall I thought it was menat to be pretty good these days?

Kilmainham is not a "nicer area". It is a tolerable area. The city end of the SCR is good but nothing much there for €450. Apply this test. Would you allow your sister to walk from the nearest hotel to it at 12.00 on a Saturday night?

Ayuntamiento

Kilmainham is a really nice area. It's got the Royal Hospital, the museum of modern art, the Gaol, the War Memorial Park and a Hilton hotel. Newer 2 bed apartments there sell for over 300k and there are lovely big old red brick houses in the area that go for close to a million.

Kings Inns or bust

4ensic15 wrote: »

Kilmainham is not a "nicer area". It is a tolerable area. The city end of the SCR is good but nothing much there for €450. Apply this test. Would you allow your sister to walk from the nearest hotel to it at 12.00 on a Saturday night?

Hilton to a few 100 yards from the Hilton, I think she'd be grand. If she existed.

The_Conductor

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

Kilmainham is a really nice area. It's got the Royal Hospital, the museum of modern art, the Gaol, the War Memorial Park and a Hilton hotel. Newer 2 bed apartments there sell for over 300k and there are lovely big old red brick houses in the area that go for close to a million.

Personally- I wouldn't care whether apartments in the area make 300k or not- or indeed, the presence of Kilmainham jail and the museum of modern art- I'd be far more likely to speak to the Garda Community Officer- and get a feel for the crime level in a particular area.

There are complete no-go streets within a half mile of Kilmainham- where anyone who knows the area at all simply avoids.

Personally- and while I accept that the Kilmainham area has been gentrified to a large extent- I'd avoid it if at all possible- in favour of somewhere where I felt safer.

Ayuntamiento

I've lived in Kilmainham for close to 10yrs so I think I'm more than qualified to say that it's a very safe area. It's one of the safest places I've ever lived and I'm originally from Clontarf. I assume you're referring to parts of Rialto/The Liberties when you say there are streets within half a mile from Kilmainham which are 'no-go' areas.

That's like saying Clontarf is a dive because it's within half a mile of East Wall/Northstrand. And Lucan is a dump because it's near Palmerstown. You're being a bit silly.

If you want to live in an area that's a 15 minute commute from the city centre then you'll have to accept that the good areas are side by side with the bad areas.

The_Conductor

It was more the streets adjacent to main street Inchicore I had in mind, but I take your point.........

The whole area has become gentrified to a certain extent- however, there are still areas you simply avoid.

Talk to the local Community Garda for more information.