Wrong hinges in uPVC windows?

CupawnTae

Trying to replace the hinges in some draughty uPVC windows, and in trying to figure out which hinges to buy, I *think* the original installers have (a) used top-hung hinges on side-hung windows, and (b) used 18mm hinges when the windows should have 15mm ("slimline") ones.

(a) is partly based on the fact the hinges are 10" and it seems to be impossible to find 10" side-hung hinges

(b) is based on the fact that there's a channel in the window frame that I'd expect the rail to fit into, but instead there's a gap, the edges of the rail sit outside the channel, and some of the rails are actually bending at the screws as a result.

Is it possible to tell by looking if they're top-hung or side-hung hinges?

More importantly, should I be ordering 15mm hinges to correctly fit the channel?

I can't post a link or image yet, but I've put one at postimg.org/image/adk5hy3vx

blackbox

I've just had a look at mine and they are very similar to yours. i.e. the hinge is wider than the channel and does not recess fully into the channel.

CupawnTae

Interesting. It just doesn't seem right to me. I'm picturing guys with a big box of 18mm 10" top-hung hinges that they just use everywhere because it's easier/cheaper. I found this on a window parts website which would seem to agree that they should be actually in the channel:

The window hinge normally sits in a channel on the outer frame 18mm wide however because of the hundreds of different upvc profiles manufactured over the years some of the early profiles had a channel less than 18mm. If the channel on your windows is less than 18mm then there will almost certainly be a upvc rib which can easily be chiselled off allowing the new window hinges to sit in the right position.

Wadpie

A little bit of information is a dangerous thing. Don't go chiselling out your frame. You won't get narrow hinges anymore. The hinges are supposed to straddle the channel in that window. They are manufactured to suit 13mm height hinges. If you take the hinges of there will be 2 sets of legs on the bottom of hinges that keep them in place over the channel.

Your right about the 10" top hung hinges. Side hung hinges will have an extra bar for added strength.

Pm me if you want more info

slapper999

Those hinges are wrong, they are too wide, they should fit into the groove, not on top as they are fitted.

Wadpie

slapper999 wrote:

Those hinges are wrong, they are too wide, they should fit into the groove, not on top as they are fitted.

No the hinges are right. They should sit on top of the channel. Those hinges have legs that sit down into the channel and keep it on top of the channel. If you don't believe me have a look at any other munster joinery window in the country. They will be the very same as that picture

slapper999

The hinge in the photo, postimg.org/image/adk5hy3vx , is not the correct size, it does the job but the hinge should really sit neat into the hinge channel on the pvc window.

If you look again you'll see the screw distorting the metal dragging it into the channel, the hinge is on the channel which means the opening is made a few mm shorter to allow for this and adding to the draught getting in.

CupawnTae

Wadpie said:

munster joinery

Well, that was an eye-opener - you're spot on of course. They have a video at youtu.be/fsAynRp7AfQ where you can clearly see the little legs on the sides of the rail, and the same distortion from the screws. Also looks like they're using those same 10" rails on a side-hung window. All seems bizarre to me.

xl500

CupawnTae wrote: »

Wadpie said:



Well, that was an eye-opener - you're spot on of course. They have a video at youtu.be/fsAynRp7AfQ where you can clearly see the little legs on the sides of the rail, and the same distortion from the screws. Also looks like they're using those same 10" rails on a side-hung window. All seems bizarre to me.

Munster Joinery Enough Said

colm_mcm

Just check what's on your other windows?

slapper999

Probably the same wrong ones?

CupawnTae

Yeah, they're all the same, and Wadpie is exactly right. They're Munster Joinery custom hinges - the "legs" are bits of the rails that are punched through and stick out at right angles to raise the rail out of the channel. The screws nearest the end of the rails tends to warp the rail.

I found somewhere that still sells 15mm hinges online, with a stack height of 13mm - I'm wondering if those combined with packers on the sash side (designed to adapt to 17mm stack height windows) would work - I'm a bit wary of just straddling the channel with standard 18mmx13mm hinges, although a few people have said this seems to work ok.

slapper999

check out all his post't hoho,

slapper999

When you put them hinges on you take the man before you did it wrong upon yourself, the openings had to be made smaller to fit the MJ hinges, only mm's but thats where the graught gets in

slapper999

You need to get old fashioned damp/draught proofers, stick on sh1t, don't know the name, but people should.

CupawnTae

Well, two of the windows just aren't pulling closed properly at the hinge side any more, and that's where the big draughts (and noise!) are coming in - whatever about anything else, if I can at least get fully working hinges it will make a huge difference.