Are side-facing seats legal?

summereire

Hi, I'm wondering two things:

1) For vehicles, like an older Land Rover Defender, that have side facing seats originally fitted are these legally okay today and are there any requirements for the seatbelt- can they be lap belts or can there be none?

2) Is it legal to fit side-facing seats in newer vehicles and if so are there any specifications that they need to meet?

The folding up side-facing seat arrangement would really work for me as I alternate between a few people on short trips and goods.

Thanks

biko

A car is legal with the seating arrangement it was manufactured with, including belts.

Not quite relevant but a friend of mine was vrting his UK defender,
they were saying it was not a comercial vehicle because of the side seats in the back.
He eventually won the argument that because they had no seat belts he can not carry passengers !

summereire

Thanks. So the side-facing seats are okay if they're part of the design but is it legal to carry passengers with no seat belts in a car built with no seat belts?

Also, are there any modern vehicles that come with that side-facing arrangement or is that something that has been phased out (presumably for safety reasons?).

CiniO

summereire wrote: »

Thanks. So the side-facing seats are okay if they're part of the design but is it legal to carry passengers with no seat belts in a car built with no seat belts?
.

Yes, it is legal.

Chuchote

CiniO wrote: »

Yes, it is legal.

Really? Really??? On what basis?

Del2005

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? Really??? On what basis?

The vehicle only has to comply with the regulations in force when it was manufactured. So if the vehicle was manufactured before seat belts where required it doesn't need them.

The only modern vehicle I've seen with side mounted seating are the wagons that the army use, haven't been able to see if they have seat belts though.

Chuchote

Del2005 wrote: »

The vehicle only has to comply with the regulations in force when it was manufactured. So if the vehicle was manufactured before seat belts where required it doesn't need them.

That is an utterly insane law.

May I suggest that the law be changed to say that anyone who is from the same era that the horrendously unsafe vehicle was manufactured should not be required to use seat belts in that unsafe vehicle.

Senecio

It's a perfectly sane law. You can't expect a car manufacturde today to comply with the future regulations of 2025. Same for older cars today. Do you expect a house built in the 1900's to comply with today's building regulations?

CiniO

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? Really??? On what basis?

Very simple.
When vehicle was manufactured and type approved, seatbelts were not required.
And obviously seatbelts regulation's can't require passengers to wear seatbelts on vehicle which are not equipped with them.

Chuchote

Senecio wrote: »

It's a perfectly sane law. You can't expect a car manufacturde today to comply with the future regulations of 2025. Same for older cars today. Do you expect a house built in the 1900's to comply with today's building regulations?

I remember when seatbelts became mandatory. Cars were retrofitted in their thousands. Safety is the point.

colm_mcm

I think defender Swb passenger models had sideways rear seats till 07 or 08

Giacomo McGubbin

Chuchote wrote: »

Really? Really??? On what basis?

on the same basis that pre-95 vehicles generally don't have airbags either.

Sam Russell

Chuchote wrote: »

I remember when seatbelts became mandatory. Cars were retrofitted in their thousands. Safety is the point.

Only on cars designed for seat belts but not fitted.

If you put seat belts into an old car that does not have any anchor points for them, it would be more dangerous. There are lots of dangerous design aspects in old cars like no crumple zones, sharp pointy things that will stick into the people inside in a collision, and glass that will chop you up when it shatters (or does not shatter) etc.

I think i remember reading on here before that seatbelts are not required for side facing seats as they would actually be more dangerous?


I think there was a bit of debate on rear-facing seats too (but think it came out at some point in the thread that rear facing seats did require belts).

summereire

Where do kids or baby seats fit in in vehicles like that? Can they be placed on side seats, or are they allowed in the front of vehicles?

Del2005

summereire wrote: »

Where do kids or baby seats fit in in vehicles like that? Can they be placed on side seats, or are they allowed in the front of vehicles?

They are allowed in front once in the correct seat, just make sure that the airbag is disabled if using a rear facing seat Not sure of the legality of sitting on side mounted seating, but since they are allowed to be carried in a taxi without the correct seat I'd assume that it is OK.

Chuchote

I'd be more worried about safety than about legality. But then I'm astonished at how blasé people are about getting into cars anyway, considering the risks.

Tommyboy40

Chuchote wrote: »

I'd be more worried about safety than about legality. But then I'm astonished at how blasé people are about getting into cars anyway, considering the risks.

I completely understand what you mean. The amount of people I see every day without seat belts, with bald tyres and running red lights is crazy. Even people who don't strap their kids in

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Chuchote

Tommyboy40 wrote: »

I completely understand what you mean. The amount of people I see every day without seat belts, with bald tyres and running red lights is crazy. Even people who don't strap their kids in

Couple of years back I saw a big car full of kids standing on the seats while the driver & adult passengers brayed in teddibly uppah-class accents. Laws? Not for me, dahling!