Rule questions.

Barnseire

Folks,
I can't find a readily available answer from Google, so I thought I might pose this question to a more substantial body of knowledge - Boardsie Golfers.

Player A is off the green and Player B is on and closer to the hole. To speed up play Player B putts and misses. Player B leaves his ball behind the hole, player A putts (from off the green) and hits Player Bs ball.

Two Qs. I appreciate in matchplay it's no penalty but in stokeplay/S'ford whats the ruling
i) in a singles comp ?
ii) both players were part of a Fourball partnership ?

Personally I think that in scenario i) Player's Bs ball should not have been there and it's a penalty against Player A, as Player A should have asked player B to mark it.

In ii) In fourball, as either of the pairing can play whenever they deem to be an advantage, therefore no penalty.

Thoughts please.

First Up

Barnseire wrote:

Thoughts please.

No penalty. Just replace the ball.

eoghan104

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Correct

Seve OB

no issues any way at all.

its amazing though that so many people always think if you are off the green, you must play first, even though you might be nearer the hole

ShivasIrons

In strokeplay a ball can not be left on the green if it is in position to help a fellow competitor.

The ball must be marked, unless it would cause undue delay. If both competitors agree not to lift a ball both may be disqualified.

Seve OB

ShivasIrons wrote: »

In strokeplay a ball can not be left on the green if it is in position to help a fellow competitor.

According to what rule?

ForeRight

ShivasIrons wrote: »

In strokeplay a ball can not be left on the green if it is in position to help a fellow competitor.

The ball must be marked, unless it would cause undue delay. If both competitors agree not to lift a ball both may be disqualified.

Nice rule making up

ShivasIrons

Seve OB wrote: »

According to what rule?

Rule 22

ForeRight

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Rule 22

Rule 22 is nothing like what you stated above

clog

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Rule 22

I think you have confused May with Must there.

Seve OB

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Rule 22

read it again

ShivasIrons

Decision 22/7

Ball Assisting Fellow-Competitor on Putting Green; Procedure for Referee If Competitor Does Not Lift Ball

Q.In stroke play, a competitor's ball is in a position to assist the play of a fellow-competitor and the competitor is in a position to lift the ball under Rule 22-1 without delaying the fellow-competitor's play. However, the competitor does not take any action to invoke the Rule. Would a referee be justified in intervening and requesting the competitor to invoke the Rule to protect himself and the rest of the field?



A.Yes. If the competitor were to object, there would be strong evidence of an agreement not to lift the ball for the purpose of assisting the fellow-competitor in breach of Rule 22-1. The referee would be justified in so advising the competitors involved and warning that failure to lift the ball would result in disqualification under Rule 22-1.

Seve OB

I'm going to leave it here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WW6-iat235Q

ShivasIrons

Seve OB wrote: »

I'm going to leave it here

In the case of the ball lying next to the hole with a player teeing off on a par 3 it would be considered undue delay to go to the green and mark the ball.

In the case of a golfer being greenside and a ball lying next to the hole that may assist the other competitor there would be no undue delay in marking the ball and under decision 22/7 the player is compelled to mark it.

Otherwise the player about to play a shot has an advantage that the rest of the field doesn't have.

Rikand

Barnseire wrote: »

To speed up play.

Negates rule 22

Barnseire

Thanks for the clarifications. My understanding of the rule from above is that it is no penalty. I'm not suggesting I would do the following but it seems legal.

Therefore in fourball it's perfectly acceptable for one partner who is putting for a bogey or more and is on the green and closer to the hole to roll their ball close to the hole and leave it there as a backstop for their partner who is off the green and is putting for a birdie.

ShivasIrons

Rikand wrote: »

Negates rule 22

With the player already on the green and putting there would be no undue delay in the player marking the ball on the green when it comes to rest next to the hole.

ShivasIrons

Barnseire wrote: »

Thanks for the clarifications. My understanding of the rule from above is that it is no penalty. I'm not suggesting I would do the following but it seems legal.

Therefore in fourball it's perfectly acceptable for one partner who is putting for a bogey or more and is on the green and closer to the hole to roll their ball close to the hole and leave it there as a backstop for their partner who is off the green and is putting for a birdie.

In a fourball match, yes but not in a strokeplay competition

HighLine

ShivasIrons wrote: »

Decision 22/7

Ball Assisting Fellow-Competitor on Putting Green; Procedure for Referee If Competitor Does Not Lift Ball

Q.In stroke play, a competitor's ball is in a position to assist the play of a fellow-competitor and the competitor is in a position to lift the ball under Rule 22-1 without delaying the fellow-competitor's play. However, the competitor does not take any action to invoke the Rule. Would a referee be justified in intervening and requesting the competitor to invoke the Rule to protect himself and the rest of the field?



A.Yes. If the competitor were to object, there would be strong evidence of an agreement not to lift the ball for the purpose of assisting the fellow-competitor in breach of Rule 22-1. The referee would be justified in so advising the competitors involved and warning that failure to lift the ball would result in disqualification under Rule 22-1.

You are getting yourself mixed up on the reading of the decision.

If there is no agreement to leave the ball there, there is no penalty.

The above decision only relates to a referee asking for a ball to be marked and obviously, if they players don't comply.... "there would be strong evidence of an agreement not to lift the ball for the purpose of assisting the fellow-competitor"

Have a read here...
http://www.barryrhodes.com/2012/08/using-ball-as-backstop.html

davo10

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in another scenario, in match play if your competitors ball is behind the hole, you can request that he/she leave it in position before you chip/putt.

Seve OB

davo10 wrote: »

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but in another scenario, in match play if your competitors ball is behind the hole, you can request that he/she leave it in position before you chip/putt.

Nope. But play your shot quickly before they get a chance to mark it and there is no problem

Jawgap

Seve OB wrote: »

Nope. But play your shot quickly before they get a chance to mark it and there is no problem

Unless their response to the request is "I'll mark it"

Not exactly, the scenario described, but the principle of denying the opponent the opportunity to mark and lift it would likely be problematic......

Player Concedes Opponent's Next Stroke and Plays Before Opponent Has Opportunity to Lift Ball
Q
In a match between A and B, A chips and his ball comes to rest about one foot from the hole. B concedes A's next stroke. A states that he wishes to lift his ball. However, B proceeds to play his next stroke before A has an opportunity to lift his ball and B's ball strikes A's ball. What is the ruling?

A
B deprived A of his right to lift his ball after his next stroke was conceded. In equity (Rule 1-4), B lost the hole, whether or not his ball struck A's ball.

.....better advice to say nothing, play the shot and blame them for not saying they were going to mark the ball

plumber77

Here's another one. If a player starts in a 4 ball, plays a couple of holes. Notices there is a 2 ball behind. Decides to join up with them and make 2 3 balls. Is that a rule breach or just good etiquette. Stableford competition.

Jawgap

plumber77 wrote: »

Here's another one. If a player starts in a 4 ball, plays a couple of holes. Notices there is a 2 ball behind. Decides to join up with them and make 2 3 balls. Is that a rule breach or just good etiquette. Stableford competition.

rule breach your supposed to stay with the group the committee has arranged, unless the committee allows you to change.....rule 6.3(b)

In stroke play, the competitor must remain throughout the round in the group arranged by the Committee, unless the Committee authorises or ratifies a change.

plumber77

mentions stroke play there but no provision for stableford.

Seve OB

plumber77 wrote: »

mentions stroke play there but no provision for stableford.

Stableford is essentially a form of stroke play

Jawgap

plumber77 wrote: »

mentions stroke play there but no provision for stableford.

What @Seve said......

Rule 32.1......

Bogey, par and Stableford competitions are forms of stroke play in which play is against a fixed score at each hole. The Rules for stroke play, so far as they are not at variance with the following specific Rules, apply.

blue note

A general rules question.... do you know when you replay a shot? How close should you drop it to the original? Is it 6 inches / a club length? Or even exactly the same spot?

I don't think I've ever seen someone drop a ball into the divot they just created and I haven't. I'd generally go within a few inches no nearer the hole, but I'm just thinking that I don't actually know what the rule is. Might I even have a clublength?

paulos53

Yes, You have 1 club length