Farm business plan

have2flushtwice

I'm trying to get planning permission on the farm at home, beside parents house. My architect who is helping with the process has said thay because the area is rural, and I'm on a regional road, I need to submit a farm business business plan to demonstrate the need to build at that location. What a load of....
I've checked this on the Tipp coco website and he is correct.
Anyway i need this in my pocket for the pre planning meeting.
I've applied for dad's herd number to be reactivated and got a form sent to me.... Haven't seen it yet. I've water and esb available to the site and letters to that effect.
The land is set to someone at the moment and the site is available to build on. I have no intention on in breaking the lease between dad and his Tennant any time soon.
Has anyone a business plan template for farming? Thanks.

cashcow

have2flushtwice wrote: »

I'm trying to get planning permission on the farm at home, beside parents house. My architect who is helping with the process has said thay because the area is rural, and I'm on a regional road, I need to submit a farm business business plan to demonstrate the need to build at that location. What a load of....
I've checked this on the Tipp coco website and he is correct.
Anyway i need this in my pocket for the pre planning meeting.
I've applied for dad's herd number to be reactivated and got a form sent to me.... Haven't seen it yet. I've water and esb available to the site and letters to that effect.
The land is set to someone at the moment and the site is available to build on. I have no intention on in breaking the lease between dad and his Tennant any time soon.
Has anyone a business plan template for farming? Thanks.

Check out teagasc and AIB's site's I know they both had templates to download but not sure they would suit your needs,give it a Google and see what comes up.

Icelandicseige

What a load of s###. You have to go throw to build on your own land. Will you have to let on that your farming it at the moment so?

Teagasc I'd say is your best bet you might even get a training sample that's filled out and all.

RightTurnClyde

have2flushtwice wrote: »

I'm trying to get planning permission on the farm at home, beside parents house. My architect who is helping with the process has said thay because the area is rural, and I'm on a regional road, I need to submit a farm business business plan to demonstrate the need to build at that location. What a load of....
I've checked this on the Tipp coco website and he is correct.
Anyway i need this in my pocket for the pre planning meeting.
I've applied for dad's herd number to be reactivated and got a form sent to me.... Haven't seen it yet. I've water and esb available to the site and letters to that effect.
The land is set to someone at the moment and the site is available to build on. I have no intention on in breaking the lease between dad and his Tennant any time soon.
Has anyone a business plan template for farming? Thanks.

I don't know, if you plan to have animals, but a good add on for you're application is that you need to build beside the farm on the grounds of animal welfare...calving cows, animal care Worked for me in S Tipp 15 yrs ago.
On the business plan, Teagasc probably do it but contact advisor on the ACA and they definitely do them.

Dawggone

One off builds are/have destroyed the Irish countryside...


Bungalow bliss.



Road frontage...a peculiarly Irish way of measuring liquidity.

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

One off builds are/have destroyed the Irish countryside...


Bungalow bliss.



Road frontage...a peculiarly Irish way of measuring liquidity.

But we all have them. All of us....

Dawggone

darragh_haven wrote: »

But we all have them. All of us....

It's ok so Darragh. Didn't realise...:)




Edit.


'They're all out of step...except my Johnny'

darragh_haven

Dawggone wrote: »

It's ok so Darragh. Didn't realise...:)




Edit.


'They're all out of step...except my Johnny'

I bought some other fellas road frontage so as not to ruin my own.

Mooooo

A number of people locally were refused planning around the local village and had to go a couple of kilometres out, now 5 or 6 houses built with no services ****e roads and windmills gone up close by since the houses went up and devalued their houses further. All well and good saying one off housing is destroying the countryside , it's more the fact planning around villages and poor types and supply around cities is the biggest issue. There could be a couple of hundred of houses taken up with young workers house sharing when an apartment block would suit them just as well. Let the cities go upwards in planning to house the workers etc and take the pressure off the housing supply and allow the suburbs and villages to have the correct facilities to maintain a community and allow people to want to live there. Only a school, shop and church left in local village, pubs closed no life in it. No wonder people prefer to build out the country when there is nothing to entice them into a village and cities are beyond the majorities means Planning in urban centres is the biggest issue effecting everything else imo

Sam Kade

Dawggone wrote: »

One off builds are/have destroyed the Irish countryside...


Bungalow bliss.



Road frontage...a peculiarly Irish way of measuring liquidity.

The most ridiculous ones are the mc mansions built in the back of the beyonds at the back or in the middle of fields.

Dawggone

Sam Kade wrote: »

The most ridiculous ones are the mc mansions built in the back of the beyonds at the back or in the middle of fields.

Pet hate...limestone faced house or entrance...in a sandstone/granite/etc area.

_Brian

Dawggone wrote: »

Pet hate...limestone faced house or entrance...in a sandstone/granite/etc area.

Oh god I thought I was the only one hated this.

Few years ago fella build three monster cubes of houses near here, all faced with sandstone. We're in a blue stone area, ya couldn't quarry sandstone for maybe 30 miles away. They look ridiculous, should never have got planning

ganmo

_Brian wrote: »

Oh god I thought I was the only one hated this.

Few years ago fella build three monster cubes of houses near here, all faced with sandstone. We're in a blue stone area, ya couldn't quarry sandstone for maybe 30 miles away. They look ridiculous, should never have got planning

It could of been a condition that they were faced with the 'county' stone rather than looking at what is local to the site

kowtow

Dawggone wrote:

Pet hate...limestone faced house or entrance...in a sandstone/granite/etc area.

Spray on stone, as Mrs KT refers to it.

Water John

OP, any chance of you leasing a bit of land locally? You could also use it to build up a bit of stock as to when you get the farm back. Could be the basis of your plan.
Dawgone, the pattern of building houses in rural Ireland is very long established as verified by Seamus Caulfield of The Ceidhe Fields.
The pop of our small towns was the same in the 1840's as the 1950's'. The 8M people lived out in rural Ireland. That is our heritage and vernacular. All living in villages and towns belongs to other countries and is alien to us.
The rural landscape dotted with houses and farmyards is very pretty.

J.O. Farmer

Dawggone wrote: »

One off builds are/have destroyed the Irish countryside...

Your right we should all move to France and destroy the french countryside with our once off housing.
I've lived in urban areas for work and never known my neighbours who's door was 20 foot away and yet living in a once off build in the countryside I am on first name terms with people within a couple of mile. The once off houses are often people with connections to the area or people who moved in and integrated. It's not all bad.

Dawggone wrote: »

Road frontage...a peculiarly Irish way of measuring liquidity.

Also the important question for any young woman being courted. If she's really lucky there's lake frontage too.

littelady

Your building your case for local needs, say you need to be close to the farm as your sheep will be lambing also if ur parents live on the farm add to your case by saying they are aging and you will be there primary career. Get a letter from priest local sports club everything you can think of to prove you need local needs.

Timmaay

It various hugely between Co councils also, every time I'm driving through back roads in Wexford I'm shocked at the number of monstrosities on every road, with zero attempts to integrate them into the landscape.

Water John

Also contact one of the County Councillors in your area. He/She will be able to give you the best guidance through the maze and can very helpful.
Any ill health that can be supported by a letter from a GP would really strengthen your case.
Very frustrating, load of bollocks. Diff counties apply the rule differently. Just being from the locale by 5/6 miles is often enough in many counties.

Buford T. Justice XIX

Dawggone wrote: »

One off builds are/have destroyed the Irish countryside...


Bungalow bliss.



Road frontage...a peculiarly Irish way of measuring liquidity.

I remember going into a bank for a loan and was asked how much road frontage I had before cow or cattle numbers.

I'm very illiquid having about 50 foot of frontage.

mayota

Water John wrote: »

OP, any chance of you leasing a bit of land locally? You could also use it to build up a bit of stock as to when you get the farm back. Could be the basis of your plan.
Dawgone, the pattern of building houses in rural Ireland is very long established as verified by Seamus Caulfield of The Ceidhe Fields.
The pop of our small towns was the same in the 1840's as the 1950's'. The 8M people lived out in rural Ireland. That is our heritage and vernacular. All living in villages and towns belongs to other countries and is alien to us.
The rural landscape dotted with houses and farmyards is very pretty.

I'd agree fully with this. Nice to have houses and people dotted about here and there.

ganmo

mayota wrote: »

I'd agree fully with this. Nice to have houses and people dotted about here and there.

As long as the people in them are nice

Dawggone

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

Your right we should all move to France and destroy the french countryside with our once off housing.
I've lived in urban areas for work and never known my neighbours who's door was 20 foot away and yet living in a once off build in the countryside I am on first name terms with people within a couple of mile. The once off houses are often people with connections to the area or people who moved in and integrated. It's not all bad.

So your logic...the closer (proximity) that you live to people, the less you know them?
Hmmm.

freedominacup

mayota wrote: »

I'd agree fully with this. Nice to have houses and people dotted about here and there.

How much dotting id too much dotting though? There's an area of ground close to me that would have been just black on a winter's evening when I first started driving in the early nineties. It's now lit up like a Christmas tree. Not too many locals in it either and some very suspect approvals.

Dawggone

freedominacup wrote: »

How much dotting id too much dotting though? There's an area of ground close to me that would have been just black on a winter's evening when I first started driving in the early nineties. It's now lit up like a Christmas tree. Not too many locals in it either and some very suspect approvals.

I think that it's a lack of investment by local government in services to villages. Easier, and more populist, to grant one offs to all and sundry...

visatorro

Just out of interest how strict is planning re one off housing where you are Dawggone?

Dawggone

visatorro wrote: »

Just out of interest how strict is planning re one off housing where you are Dawggone?

Impossible.

All building/development is within Town/Village/Hamlet limits.

Waffletraktor

Dawggone wrote: »

Impossible.

All building/development is within Town/Village/Hamlet limits.

Its quite hard to get plannin here unless an existing structure is there, or start off with a caravan or something that looks lived in but takes 3-4 years this way.
On that note, have planning for this old yard and house. Its a very strange small sqft house with 2 floors.
Will clear farm debts from capital building over the last 6 years after starting a few houses in old polo horse yards, easily find some london numpty to buy it moving to the "country".

ganmo

Dawggone wrote: »

I think that it's a lack of investment by local government in services to villages. Easier, and more populist, to grant one offs to all and sundry...

They want the ppl that want to live in villages to live in towns but they end up living in the countryside instead

paddysdream

Bìt off topic but why all the hate towards one off housing?

If somebody decides to build a house on land they own what skin off anyone else's nose is it?
The "view" is not owned by any one individual or group and as we are all different maybe,just maybe some people have different(or no)taste.
The "countryside" in Ireland is not, and never has been,an unchanging pristine landscape.Everything you see around you ,in the vast vast majority of the country,has been changed,shaped or otherwise influenced by human hand.

Often ask people in which particular decade or even century they would like to stop progress.Should we all live in 2 room whitewashed shacks with thatch on the roof and a pig in the parlour?
Should we just stop when someone personally has "their "tasteful,integrated ,sustainable and sympathetic house built ?

freedominacup

paddysdream wrote: »

Bìt off topic but why all the hate towards one off housing?

If somebody decides to build a house on land they own what skin off anyone else's nose is it?
The "view" is not owned by any one individual or group and as we are all different maybe,just maybe some people have different(or no)taste.
The "countryside" in Ireland is not, and never has been,an unchanging pristine landscape.Everything you see around you ,in the vast vast majority of the country,has been changed,shaped or otherwise influenced by human hand.

Often ask people in which particular decade or even century they would like to stop progress.Should we all live in 2 room whitewashed shacks with thatch on the roof and a pig in the parlour?
Should we just stop when someone personally has "their "tasteful,integrated ,sustainable and sympathetic house built ?

There's two sides to it paddy no doubt. Tbh I think we have reached the stopping point though. Two or maybe three houses should suffice for even the largest farms. A lot more houses should be tied to the farms they are attached to and should be sold off with the farm if it is being sold. After that it's getting hard to justify new builds. As my parents generation age I'm starting to wonder who is going to occupy all these 1970's bungalows as they become vacant over the next 20-30 years.

Mooooo

Those bungalows are already appearing as "on farm accommodation" in some adds for staff. A lot of farms also are rel small so within a few hundred metres you could have 3 different farms fronting on to a road. Neighboring farm is circa 20 acres 2 houses on it, small bungalow built in early 80s owners live(d) in and the new house built a number of years ago by child who had no intention of staying long term was always built to sell. On other side same story 2 houses built, other than origional farmhouse, with no other priority than to sell with children's names used to get planning. The housing bubble caused a lot of unnecessary builds as opposed to people actually building to live and prices forced a good few people out to the country then. Although all three I mention remain unsold with two let I believe

paddysdream

Mooooo wrote: »

Those bungalows are already appearing as "on farm accommodation" in some adds for staff. A lot of farms also are rel small so within a few hundred metres you could have 3 different farms fronting on to a road. Neighboring farm is circa 20 acres 2 houses on it, small bungalow built in early 80s owners live(d) in and the new house built a number of years ago by child who had no intention of staying long term was always built to sell. On other side same story 2 houses built, other than origional farmhouse, with no other priority than to sell with children's names used to get planning. The housing bubble caused a lot of unnecessary builds as opposed to people actually building to live and prices forced a good few people out to the country then. Although all three I mention remain unsold with two let I believe

Can't see an issue with this to be fair.If someone is willing to build a house and pay for it then what matter to anyone else if it's lived in or not ?
Wannabe developers got their fingers burned at the end of the tiger boom but so what?It was their money/land and their risk.
Win big;more power to them.Lose big;tough

paddysdream

freedominacup wrote: »

There's two sides to it paddy no doubt. Tbh I think we have reached the stopping point though. Two or maybe three houses should suffice for even the largest farms. A lot more houses should be tied to the farms they are attached to and should be sold off with the farm if it is being sold. After that it's getting hard to justify new builds. As my parents generation age I'm starting to wonder who is going to occupy all these 1970's bungalows as they become vacant over the next 20-30 years.

Don't think we should go down the road like the UK of tying houses to farmland or only allowing those with a direct connection to the farm in question to build.

What gives someone the right to build in a particular area only due to occupation or fate as to where they were born or in many cases their particular position amongst their siblings?
Have no real dog in the fight as never a site sold here and hopefully ill never have to.Was sorely tempted during the boom years though as had visions of a mortgage free existence with loads of capital to invest in farm.
Still can't decide if it was the right or wrong decision but I suppose have a good hole in the mortgage and the sites are still there.Farm could still do with lots of interest free investment though!!!

A couple of neighbours done the opposite though.In one case it was to shore the job up and pay bills and in another case it was purely a business decision and as far as I know much of the money was invested off farm.to be fair site sales propped up a serious amount of farmers over the last ten to twenty years.
Me and a friend have great fun driving home after another "educational" farm walk and counting how many sites this or that "progressive" farmer sold off to keep his head above water.Easy to invest in your farm and have all your ducks in a row when you get a 500k backshove from site sales.

Really getting away from the point now!!
As regards those 1970's built bungalows;does it matter to anyone bar the owners if they are occupied or not ?

Mooooo

paddysdream wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

Those bungalows are already appearing as "on farm accommodation" in some adds for staff. A lot of farms also are rel small so within a few hundred metres you could have 3 different farms fronting on to a road. Neighboring farm is circa 20 acres 2 houses on it, small bungalow built in early 80s owners live(d) in and the new house built a number of years ago by child who had no intention of staying long term was always built to sell. On other side same story 2 houses built, other than origional farmhouse, with no other priority than to sell with children's names used to get planning. The housing bubble caused a lot of unnecessary builds as opposed to people actually building to live and prices forced a good few people out to the country then. Although all three I mention remain unsold with two let I believe

Can't see an issue with this to be fair.If someone is willing to build a house and pay for it then what matter to anyone else if it's lived in or not ?
Wannabe developers got their fingers burned at the end of the tiger boom but so what?It was their money/land and their risk.
Win big;more power to them.Lose big;tough

Dont disagree with your point of view but when someine like the op is looking to build a house to live in longterm and struggles to get planning due to the perceived issue of empty/ too.many once off houses and the perceived issue of services for them, which isn't supplied anyway , it comes back to the point of urban centres not being managed correctly which if they were there would be less one off housing and and less issues against them so those who wish to live there would be have issues like the op. Whether or not they are an eyesore is a matter of opinion some think so others don't, nobody right or wrong so to speak but empty houses around the place don't help the situation either. Bit of a ramble there I guess but overall jist is planning in general in this country is inconsistentas as well as being a joke all round

visatorro

Some of the roads locally are like housing estates now. Not right either. Serious money raiser for the council though. Money for foot paths and night lights and that...

There was a study done sometime that names one off housing as the biggest pollutants in Irish society, dunno like everything else there are two sides to all arguments. Once my house is built I don't care!!!

paddysdream

Mooooo wrote: »

Dont disagree with your point of view but when someine like the op is looking to build a house to live in longterm and struggles to get planning due to the perceived issue of empty/ too.many once off houses and the perceived issue of services for them, which isn't supplied anyway , it comes back to the point of urban centres not being managed correctly which if they were there would be less one off housing and and less issues against them so those who wish to live there would be have issues like the op. Whether or not they are an eyesore is a matter of opinion some think so others don't, nobody right or wrong so to speak but empty houses around the place don't help the situation either. Bit of a ramble there I guess but overall jist is planning in general in this country is inconsistentas as well as being a joke all round

The difficulty the OP and many more looking to build in the countryside face is the dogmatic objection of many planners to one off rural housing.This is borne out by personal experience in my own family and you only have to have a quick look at the construction forum to see the attitude of those posters who are involved in planning to see this.

I have no problem if someone is refused because the site is unsuitable from a public safety point of view etc but deciding that someone is not allowed to build in a particular area or to a particular style just because a planner or a Dept. official feels that its not a sustainable practice is a load of bullsh1t.

Had all this nonsense when I built here years ago and in the end just signed up for what they wanted,got permission and went ahead and built what I wanted.Inspections my ar*e.Once they get their development fees they couldn't care less what goes where as they are covered.
To be honest how many non grant farm buildings have ever had planning sought? 5% ? 10% ?

If people are willing to live in a rural area and are prepared to pay more for the privelege of living where they wish ,then why not?
Just because someone else has an empty house 500 yards down the road doesn't mean nobody else is allowed build until that particular house is occupied.

paddysdream

visatorro wrote: »

Some of the roads locally are like housing estates now. Not right either. Serious money raiser for the council though. Money for foot paths and night lights and that...

There was a study done sometime that names one off housing as the biggest pollutants in Irish society, dunno like everything else there are two sides to all arguments. Once my house is built I don't care!!!

You can find a study to prove almost anything although nobody has yet come up with one that proves common sense is common!

Regarding footpaths etc I distinctly remember giving my development fee to the Council about 5 years after building as their begging letters were getting serious.Brother built about 5 years later and fees had gone through the roof.On both our bills were listed all the things we were paying for including public lighting footpaths etc etc.Never have the council as much as tarred and chipped the road here.At least if they were honest and called it a discretionary tax then it would be fairer.For my contribution I received the sum total of F all as their are no public services out here and to be fair would expect none as it would be rather costly.
That is grand if you are prepared to live with less or no service as the trade off is worth it for many people.
Have to admit that those calling for high speed rural broadband and rural transport plus increased Garda presence should really be either expected to pay extra for it or otherwise move to a more urban area if that is what they feel they need.People should be willing to put up with the cons of rural living if they expect to enjoy the plusses

J.O. Farmer

Dawggone wrote: »

So your logic...the closer (proximity) that you live to people, the less you know them?
Hmmm.

I think you might have mixed up logic and experience.
My point was that if someone with connections to an area wants to build they shouldn't be stopped because they might spoil the view.

Dawggone

J.O. Farmer wrote: »

I think you might have mixed up logic and experience.
.

??

Paddy's posts perfectly explain my point...
Pay your money, and do whatever you like. Brilliant demonstration of structured, planned development of the countryside...anyone would think we're talking Africa, not Ireland.


I built a few houses a dozen years ago...it was an excellent education on corruption.

paddysdream

Dawggone wrote: »

??

Paddy's posts perfectly explain my point...
Pay your money, and do whatever you like. Brilliant demonstration of structured, planned development of the countryside...anyone would think we're talking Africa, not Ireland.


I built a few houses a dozen years ago...it was an excellent education on corruption.

Have no problem with structured planning as long as those implementing it put their own bias and personal opinion to one side.
For example when building my own house was asked to change one particular aspect by council planner.Asked why and he told me that he personally did not like it and felt it was not suitable for my area.When I pointed out that my neighbour was granted permission with this only 2 years previous he told me that was irrelevent as he was against this particular thing and that was the end of the matter.
Will admit its not a very Irish thing and some might not like it but at the end of the day I was the one paying the money and I was the one paying for it.

All this coming from a non Irish planner living 60 miles from the county in which he was deciding what people could or could not build on their own land.
I firmly believe that planning should not be a matter of taste or lack of it. Rather you should be allowed build what you wish as long as you are not interfering with anyone else.

The Irish countryside is a product of thousands of years of change and those looking to freeze it in aspic are merely admitting that they are all right Jack and nobody else should be allowed to do anything.Bit selfish but thats human nature I suppose.To me the Irish countryside is Irish with houses here and there ,built by people who are prepared to live where they want unlike the sterile countryside found in many parts of the UK and in many countries in Europe.Vast tracts of land with only a farmhouse dotted here and there.Maybe thats the tradition there but not here despite what some people might like to see.

Dawggone

paddysdream wrote: »

Have no problem with structured planning as long as those implementing it put their own bias and personal opinion to one side.
For example when building my own house was asked to change one particular aspect by council planner.Asked why and he told me that he personally did not like it and felt it was not suitable for my area.When I pointed out that my neighbour was granted permission with this only 2 years previous he told me that was irrelevent as he was against this particular thing and that was the end of the matter.
Will admit its not a very Irish thing and some might not like it but at the end of the day I was the one paying the money and I was the one paying for it.

All this coming from a non Irish planner living 60 miles from the county in which he was deciding what people could or could not build on their own land.
I firmly believe that planning should not be a matter of taste or lack of it. Rather you should be allowed build what you wish as long as you are not interfering with anyone else.

The Irish countryside is a product of thousands of years of change and those looking to freeze it in aspic are merely admitting that they are all right Jack and nobody else should be allowed to do anything.Bit selfish but thats human nature I suppose.To me the Irish countryside is Irish with houses here and there ,built by people who are prepared to live where they want unlike the sterile countryside found in many parts of the UK and in many countries in Europe.Vast tracts of land with only a farmhouse dotted here and there.Maybe thats the tradition there but not here despite what some people might like to see.

Are you talking about Africa?







Or Ireland?

Water John

And your point is???
Oh, let me explain. The Europeans are cultured and the Irish and Africans are uncivilised and corrupt.

paddysdream

Dawggone wrote: »

Are you talking about Africa?







Or Ireland?

Don't quite get the inference but then maybe I am a bit slow,being Irish and all.
Save

kowtow

Water John wrote:

And your point is??? Oh, let me explain. The Europeans are cultured and the Irish and Africans are uncivilised and corrupt.

Oh absolutely not.

Corruption in Europe is much more effective than in Africa.

Cappabar could never buy the kind of favours for sale in local governments around the EU countries.