Survey found upstairs bedrooms not habitable

stevecarlos

Hi there,

We are in the process of buying a home, had a surveyor in recently and he found the two upstairs rooms to not comply with 'habitable' bedroom standards because the bottom edges of the velux windows are not close enough to the floor. They therefore do not count as bedrooms according to regulations. We are still waiting for the report so we'll be more sure then but wanted to see if anyone has advice on how to go about it. The house was advertised as a 4bed, but if the two upstairs rooms aren't really bedrooms, but only attic rooms, that could impact the resell value. The surveyor said it could be fixed easily (by building a step for example) but I still feel quite worried about what I could be getting myself into. Anyone has had a similar experience? Is it common to find inaccuracies in what the daft ad says and what it really is like this? Any advice would be much appreciated.

L1011

If not corrected before sale, your bank may be entirely unwilling to lend - a 2 bed property as it has now become is not going to be worth the same as a 4 bed.

Alkers

Go back to the vendor with the survey report and ask that they either remedy the situation with the easy fix as suggested by the surveyor or that they reduce the selling price accordingly.

lawred2

stevecarlos wrote: »

Hi there,

We are in the process of buying a home, had a surveyor in recently and he found the two upstairs rooms to not comply with 'habitable' bedroom standards because the bottom edges of the velux windows are not close enough to the floor. They therefore do not count as bedrooms according to regulations. We are still waiting for the report so we'll be more sure then but wanted to see if anyone has advice on how to go about it. The house was advertised as a 4bed, but if the two upstairs rooms aren't really bedrooms, but only attic rooms, that could impact the resell value. The surveyor said it could be fixed easily (by building a step for example) but I still feel quite worried about what I could be getting myself into. Anyone has had a similar experience? Is it common to find inaccuracies in what the daft ad says and what it really is like this? Any advice would be much appreciated.

Might need to walk away from that one

That or get the vendor to

a) sell as a 2 bed
b) make the rooms adhere to code

seamus

A bank's valuer may not spot this. But either way if you buy it, it becomes your problem. Now that you're aware of this issue, it would be illegal for you to misrespresent this property as a 4-bed if you were to try and sell it on.

Which also technically means that your mortgage application may be invalid if you don't disclose this to the bank.

Give the estate agent a copy of the surveyor's report. I would be inclined to just drop your offer by 15-20%. If the vendor goes and puts a fix in, it'll be a shoddy minimum-cost effort. You'll have to redo it when you move in.

lawred2

How close to the floor must the base of the velux windows be?

foggy_lad

Is the Surveyor using current building regulations or using the regulations which were in place when the Velux windows were installed?

Penn

lawred2 wrote: »

How close to the floor must the base of the velux windows be?

They have to be between 600mm and 1100mm above floor level. However if they're above 1100mm above floor level, it's quite likely they're also more than 1700mm from the eaves of the roof measured along the slope of the roof, which means building a step internally still may not make them fully comply.

foggy_lad wrote: »

Is the Surveyor using current building regulations or using the regulations which were in place when the Velux windows were installed?

This is the key point. The rooms likely can't be classed as habitable rooms by existing regulations, however they need only comply with the regulations applicable at the time of construction. However, given that it's concerning fire safety, any and all measures to bring them into compliance should be undertaken.

Find out when the conversion was carried out and request certification for compliance with building regulations for the works. The responses to that will determine what needs to be done. If the estate agent is classing them as bedrooms, I'd say they would have checked themselves to make sure they could be classed as bedrooms.

Glass fused light

Penn wrote: »

If the estate agent is classing them as bedrooms, I'd say they would have checked themselves to make sure they could be classed as bedrooms.

Unless the new regulator powers cover this the Estate Agent was allowed to rely on the assurances given by the selling owner, otherwise they could be sued by a new owner for a non-visible fault.
They are to matchmake and shop-front the property they are professional sellers, you will see where conversions are mentioned there may be a qualification disguised in the description.

OP the old adage of the day you buy is the day you sell holds true here so even with a cert. you should factor the 'uncertainty reaction factor' into your offer price.

stevecarlos

Thank you so much everybody for these answers - i have found all of them to be really helpful. We just got the written report from the surveyor where he outlines this point, I will not speak to the real estate agent and investigate further. In any case, we are a little turned off by the place by this point because of this unexpected surprise so we'll have to think about whether we walk away all together even before seeing if there could be a fix.

Gumbo

foggy_lad wrote: »

Is the Surveyor using current building regulations or using the regulations which were in place when the Velux windows were installed?

TGD Part B hasn't been altered since 2006 and IIRC even the older regs before that still contained the same dimension requirements.

The bottom of the window opening should be
not more than 1100 mm and not less than 800
mm (600 mm in the case of a rooflight) above the
floor, immediately inside or beneath the window
or rooflight. As an exception to the general
guidance in TGD K (Stairways, Ladders, Ramps
and Guards) that guarding be provided for any
window, the cill of which is less than 800 mm in
height above floor level, guarding should not be
provided to a rooflight opening provided in
compliance with this paragraph

Pending

I walked away from one of these last year. No idea how the development got through planning etc, but several of the neighbours had altered the windows. The vendor was in a chain, and was willing to drop the price to cover a fix, but it wasn't worth it to me.

She subsequently did the most basic fix - installed another lower velux beneath the original one, and it looks absolutely looks awful. But it's back on the market again, for 10k above the agreed price last year.

ArtSmart

stevecarlos wrote: »

Hi there,

We are in the process of buying a home, had a surveyor in recently and he found the two upstairs rooms to not comply with 'habitable' bedroom standards because the bottom edges of the velux windows are not close enough to the floor. They therefore do not count as bedrooms according to regulations. We are still waiting for the report so we'll be more sure then but wanted to see if anyone has advice on how to go about it. The house was advertised as a 4bed, but if the two upstairs rooms aren't really bedrooms, but only attic rooms, that could impact the resell value.

The surveyor said it could be fixed easily (by building a step for example) but I still feel quite worried about what I could be getting myself into. Anyone has had a similar experience? Is it common to find inaccuracies in what the daft ad says and what it really is like this? Any advice would be much appreciated.

I'm not a development expert, but I do have a knowledge of words, psychology and semantics.

All I'm picking up here is anger and frustration.

Not legalese, or logic.


If you're an investor, do the logic/ maths, ie, the step re mkt buyers, re cost, re whatever. But I'm not getting that sense.

If you're not...well, I dunno where you're coming from. If it's a home, it's a home. If it's badly built, move on. Re-sale value is wisely prudent, but I'm not picking up 'the house is sinking, the asbestos/ damp is rising, the local developments are grating, the local crime is rising, or anything like it.

Gumbo

ArtSmart wrote: »

I'm not a development expert, but I do have a knowledge of words, psychology and semantics.

All I'm picking up here is anger and frustration.

Not legalese, or logic.


If you're an investor, do the logic/ maths, ie, the step re mkt buyers, re cost, re whatever. But I'm not getting that sense.

If you're not...well, I dunno where you're coming from.

The steps can be found in many homes in order to make the attic space comply. Including some top of the market homes in Clontarf. It's not the best in the worlds, but it is acceptable.

BryanF

kceire wrote: »

The steps can be found in many homes in order to make the attic space comply. Including some top of the market homes in Clontarf. It's not the best in the worlds, but it is acceptable.

+1
20€ in woodies for timber, a few screws and you have step! This noncompliance is about the height of Cill for a 'means of escape'