Lift, clean and drop?

spoke2cun

A local winter rule. If your ball is plugged in the cut grass/rough/first cut etc, you may lift clean and drop within one club length not nearer the hole. My question is- If it drops onto the fairway, still within one club length, can you play it from there or does it have to remain in the rough? Thanks.

plumber77

spoke2cun wrote: »

A local winter rule. If your ball is plugged in the cut grass/rough/first cut etc, you may lift clean and drop within one club length not nearer the hole. My question is- If it drops onto the fairway, still within one club length, can you play it from there or does it have to remain in the rough? Thanks.

I wouldn't think so. I'd imagine you'd have to drop again.

Russman

I don't think the rules differentiate between fairway and rough, its all "through the green".
Pretty sure if the one club length, plus the roll allowed for a dropped ball, gets you onto fairway without being nearer the hole, then its your good luck.

The Rape of Lucretia

Nobody here can answer your question.
Winter local rules are not covered in the rules of golf and are a local rule that must be defined by your club. You must ask them. There is no common rule - clubs can make up variants, including decision on questions like yours, as they wish. The club down the road may have a different local rule (place, drop, within 6 inches, within a club length, cannot drop from the rough to the fairway, etc). Its up to them.

spoke2cun

Thanks for the replies folks. I'll ask the club just to be sure.

ForeRight

If your rule states you drop within a club length no nearer the hole and a club length takes you onto the fairway from the rough edge that's no problem.

Seve OB

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Nobody here can answer your question.
Winter local rules are not covered in the rules of golf and are a local rule that must be defined by your club. You must ask them. There is no common rule - clubs can make up variants, including decision on questions like yours, as they wish. The club down the road may have a different local rule (place, drop, within 6 inches, within a club length, cannot drop from the rough to the fairway, etc). Its up to them.

Ah but the local rule would be just giving you the drop.
If you get a drop and it works in your favour, it doesn't matter how you got the drop.....rub of the green, so happy days

HighLine

Seve OB wrote: »

Ah but the local rule would be just giving you the drop.
If you get a drop and it works in your favour, it doesn't matter how you got the drop.....rub of the green, so happy days

That's usually the way it is unless specified otherwise in the local rule. We had it in ours one year that if you are lifting from semi, then the ball, after being dropped, must finish in the semi and not the fairway.

Jawgap

If you drop and it rolls onto the fairway that's your good fortune......just like if you drop on the fairway and it rolls into the rough, or a divot or a downhill, below-the-feet lie that's your bad luck.

The only circumstances under which you'd have to re-drop is if the ball rolls into a hazard, or on to a green or rolls more than two club lengths from the point where it was dropped or rolls nearer to the green than the original position or the maximum point of relief.

Local rule gives you the drop - Rule 20(2) then takes over and dictates how you execute the drop.

Seve OB

Jawgap wrote: »

If you drop and it rolls onto the fairway that's your good fortune......just like if you drop on the fairway and it rolls into the rough, or a divot or a downhill, below-the-feet lie that's your bad luck.

The only circumstances under which you'd have to re-drop is if the ball rolls into a hazard, or on to a green or rolls more than two club lengths from the point where it was dropped or rolls nearer to the green hole than the original position or the maximum point of relief.

Local rule gives you the drop - Rule 20(2) then takes over and dictates how you execute the drop.

FYP

HighLine

Jawgap wrote: »

If you drop and it rolls onto the fairway that's your good fortune......just like if you drop on the fairway and it rolls into the rough, or a divot or a downhill, below-the-feet lie that's your bad luck.

The only circumstances under which you'd have to re-drop is if the ball rolls into a hazard, or on to a green or rolls more than two club lengths from the point where it was dropped or rolls nearer to the green than the original position or the maximum point of relief.

Local rule gives you the drop - Rule 20(2) then takes over and dictates how you execute the drop.

Which is usually the case but local winter rules are not covered by the rules of golf. See The Rape of Lucretia's post above.

Hoof Hearted2

spoke2cun wrote: »

A local winter rule. If your ball is plugged in the cut grass/rough/first cut etc, you may lift clean and drop within one club length not nearer the hole. My question is- If it drops onto the fairway, still within one club length, can you play it from there or does it have to remain in the rough? Thanks.

FYI it used to be the case that when dropping your drop under the "winter rules" rule, you were allowed drop the ball within one club length, it was changed a number of years ago to "as close as possible to where the ball originally lay".

See below.

Rules
3. Course Conditions

The Rule
Interpretations
The Rule Explained
IA-3
a. Embedded Ball

Course conditions, including mud and extreme wetness, may interfere with proper playing of the game and warrant relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green.
Rule 25-2 provides relief, without penalty, for a ball embedded in its own pitch-mark in any closely-mown area through the green.
On the putting green, a ball may be lifted and damage caused by the impact of a ball may be repaired (Rules 16-1b and c). When permission to take relief for an embedded ball anywhere through the green would be warranted, the following Local Rule is recommended:

“Through the green, a ball that is embedded may be lifted, cleaned and dropped, without penalty, as near as possible to the spot where it lay but not nearer the hole.
The ball when dropped must first strike a part of the course through the green.

Note: A ball is “embedded” when it is in its own pitch-mark and part of the ball is below the level of the ground. A ball does not necessarily have to touch the soil to be embedded (e.g. grass, loose impediments and the like may intervene between the ball and the soil).

Exceptions:
1. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if the ball is embedded in sand in an area that is not closely-mown.

2. A player may not take relief under this Local Rule if interference by anything other than the condition covered by this Local Rule makes the stroke clearly impracticable.

PENALTY FOR BREACH OF LOCAL RULE:
Match play – Loss of hole; Stroke play – Two strokes.”

b. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”

HighLine

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

FYI it used to be the case that when dropping your drop under the "winter rules" rule, you were allowed drop the ball within one club length, it was changed a number of years ago to "as close as possible to where the ball originally lay".

Not true. Not sure what the big confusion is here when it has already been answered in post 4.

And you left out the following paragraph where the R&A makes a SUGGESTION of how such a local rule might be phrased.

b. “Preferred Lies” and “Winter Rules”

Ground under repair
is provided for in Rule 25, and occasional local abnormal conditions that might interfere with fair play and are not widespread should be defined as ground under repair
.

However, adverse conditions, such as heavy snows, spring thaws, prolonged rains or extreme heat can make fairways unsatisfactory and sometimes prevent use of heavy mowing equipment. When these conditions are so general throughout a course
that the Committee
believes “preferred lies” or “winter rules” would promote fair play or help protect the course
, the following Local Rule (which should be withdrawn as soon as conditions warrant) is recommended:

“A ball lying on a closely-mown area through the green

(or specify a more restricted area, e.g. at the 6th hole) may be lifted without penalty and cleaned. Before lifting the ball, the player must mark its position. Having lifted the ball, he must place it on a spot within (specify area, e.g. six inches, one club-length, etc.) of and not nearer the hole
than where it originally lay, that is not in a hazard
and not on a

Again it's a suggestion and you are muddling up a proposed winter local rule which may include relief through the green with the embedded ball rule which only covers closely mown areas.

Additionally to the above, clubs may stipulate that if you are taking relief from semi-rough, the ball, after being dropped, must finish in semi-rough.

spoke2cun

HighLine wrote: »

Not true. Not sure what the big confusion is here when it has already been answered in post 4.

And you left out the following paragraph where the R&A makes a SUGGESTION of how such a local rule might be phrased.



Again it's a suggestion and you are muddling up a proposed winter local rule which may include relief through the green with the embedded ball rule which only covers closely mown areas.

Additionally to the above, clubs may stipulate that if you are taking relief from semi-rough, the ball, after being dropped, must finish in semi-rough.

'Additionally to the above, clubs may stipulate that if you are taking relief from semi-rough, the ball, after being dropped, must finish in semi-rough'.

This is the bit that I need to get clarity on from the club.

HighLine

spoke2cun wrote: »

'Additionally to the above, clubs may stipulate that if you are taking relief from semi-rough, the ball, after being dropped, must finish in semi-rough'.

This is the bit that I need to get clarity on from the club.

And they will be able to tell you. As mentioned above, the local rules varies from club to club.

My club stupidly included a winter local rule a few years ago providing for placing "through the green". i.e. in knee high rough. Fortunately that was scrapped after one winter.

Jawgap

HighLine wrote: »

Which is usually the case but local winter rules are not covered by the rules of golf. See The Rape of Lucretia's post above.

The club can't bring in a local rule varying the one that tells you how to execute a drop, afaik.

They can bring in a rule saying when to lift or if lifting is in operation and how to return the ball to the course (drop or place) and that may - and often does - vary from course to course, but they can't vary how a drop is carried out.

HighLine

Jawgap wrote: »

The club can't bring in a local rule varying the one that tells you how to execute a drop, afaik.

They can bring in a rule saying when to lift or if lifting is in operation and how to return the ball to the course (drop or place) and that may - and often does - vary from course to course, but they can't vary how a drop is carried out.

I really can't see what the big issue here is. The actual drop is executed as per the rules.
(off topic but a high percentage of golfers don't know how to drop a ball in accordance with the rules anyway. In fact I would go so far as saying the majority).

But the club can specify different alternatives for the rule. There can be placing rather than dropping, just relief on closely mown areas rather than through the green and they can also stipulate that the ball must remain in the cut of grass that relief is being taken from.

Hoof Hearted2

HighLine wrote: »

Not true. Not sure what the big confusion is here when it has already been answered in post 4.

And you left out the following paragraph where the R&A makes a SUGGESTION of how such a local rule might be phrased.



Again it's a suggestion and you are muddling up a proposed winter local rule which may include relief through the green with the embedded ball rule which only covers closely mown areas.

Additionally to the above, clubs may stipulate that if you are taking relief from semi-rough, the ball, after being dropped, must finish in semi-rough.

My point is that unless it is clearly stated in the "local rule", then you must take the embedded ball rule 25 as the cue for all drops taken under those circumstances.
Unless stated, it would be incorrect to assume otherwise.