Supplementing September grass with silage

feckin day gone again!!

Just wondering should I feed a little silage before or after milking. September grass is very lush and weather is very wet. Cows are very scoury and don't seem to want the grass..

freedominacup

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

Just wondering should I feed a little silage before or after milking. September grass is very lush and weather is very wet. Cows are very scoury and don't seem to want the grass..

What ration are they on. Another poster uses a rule of thumb of giving at least 4kg of meal before he introduces silage and I can't fault him on it tbh. Ration ingredients might help us advise you.

Timmaay

Likes of rolled barley cheap and reasonable bit of fiber in it, just mix it in with the nuts if that's what your feeding. Free when you say wait till 4kg meal, I assume that's because the cows start turning their noses to grass and standing at gaps etc once any bit of silage introduced?

freedominacup

Timmaay wrote: »

Likes of rolled barley cheap and reasonable bit of fiber in it, just mix it in with the nuts if that's what your feeding. Free when you say wait till 4kg meal, I assume that's because the cows start turning their noses to grass and standing at gaps etc once any bit of silage introduced?

I think it was Brown podzol who posted this Tim. We took pit silage out a forthnight ago. I'm pretty sure it's the worst we've made in decades. We're actually looking at removing bank a rear of pit to get at first cut. We have third cut bales which I'm hoping will be good enough to get us through Oct. I would say they're much more settled since silage was taken out. One thing is certain as soon as you get cold with rain it'll be time to bring in some forage supplement.

feckin day gone again!!

2 kgs 14% grass match. Cows v unsettled. . Grazing best grass in paddocks and start looking around.. not cleaning out paddocks and thinking a bit of silage in their bellies might be no harm.. although it might make things worse!

freedominacup

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

2 kgs 14% grass match. Cows v unsettled. . Grazing best grass in paddocks and start looking around.. not cleaning out paddocks and thinking a bit of silage in their bellies might be no harm.. although it might make things worse!

What are the ingredients? You need to be looking at barley/wheat/maize meal in any combination making up 50-60% of the ration. 15-20% soya hulls/citrus pulp. 15% approx of soya. According to dawg rapeseed or distillers are no good as protein sources at grass. Minerals and maybe molasses to balance. Anything outside this ingredient list is poor quality filler. Possible exception would be corn gluten but only to fill a hole with milkers. We put ours on 12 hour breaks for a few days and this helped settle them. Back on 24 now. Didn't push them back to 36hrs.

Mooooo

Cows on 12 hour breaks here all the time. Feeding 4kg 14.5% nut here. Dropped it when they went into very heavy covers but they fell back, so upped it again and tbh they are still eating as much grass as they can get in I reckon.this time of year I don't think ration subtitutes much grass but supplements it as opposed to summer when they may eat less grass because of ration

Brown Podzol

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

2 kgs 14% grass match. Cows v unsettled. . Grazing best grass in paddocks and start looking around.. not cleaning out paddocks and thinking a bit of silage in their bellies might be no harm.. although it might make things worse!

Grass is 12% dm. Below 14% cows just can't eat enough dm. Concequently cows are loosing condition. Access to straw at milking will help.High dm silage will help but they will spend most of the day standing at the gap. If they were my cows I'd be giving them more meal.

feckin day gone again!!

Maize, Barley, Wheat Gluten Feed are the three 1st ingredients. . Might bring them up another kilo a day and hold off on silage..

farmertipp

feckin day gone again!! wrote: »

Maize, Barley, Wheat Gluten Feed are the three 1st ingredients. . Might bring them up another kilo a day and hold off on silage..

4 kgs is the job alright at this stage . grass was testing 13%two weeks ago. I heard it was testing as low as 10% up the west at the ploughing match. At this point minimum of 4 kg.silage not far off I'm afraid. .

trixi2011

After opening up 5 bales there this evening going to feed the heifer group tomorrow. they are on 2kg of meal but just cant seem to keep them full. No mater how much grass I offer them they are still coming in for milking hungry. Cows herd not a bother on them with just 2 kg meal

Bass Reeves

Finishing cattle on grass 670-730 kgs on 3-4 kgs of rations( barley70% Hulls 30%). Grass on its own a waste of time at the moment. Will go another kg on a few AA, HE and FR but not on a few JEx(too poor to convert to beef Fr are questionable as well.

Dosed some with ivermectin pour on because of only 30 day withdrawal for meat about 10 days ago. I had more going two days ago that were not done similar cattle a bit of a difference in thrive in those 10 days. Worms a real issue is there any worm dose with a short withdrawal (24-48 hours) for milk as a matter of interest. Can you do milking cows with copper as an oral dose????.

After that use plenty of hulls in any ration go to 50% and balance with barley/Maize and soya. A lot of sh!te barley around we are talking about it in the beef thread. If you can get good barley I go with it. I think 15% soya, 50% hulls and 35% maize or barley will give you a 15% ration. should come in around 230-250/ton as a ration add 20 yoyo's for a nut though some millers are charging less of a margin on nuts but you have to add molasses as a binder.

kevthegaff

Bass Reeves wrote:

Dosed some with ivermectin pour on because of only 30 day withdrawal for meat about 10 days ago. I had more going two days ago that were not done similar cattle a bit of a difference in thrive in those 10 days. Worms a real issue is there any worm dose with a short withdrawal (24-48 hours) for milk as a matter of interest. Can you do milking cows with copper as an oral dose????.

My head is gone but expensive 550 for 120 cows look back on the dairy thread zero milk withdrawal

Bass Reeves

kevthegaff wrote: »

My head is gone but expensive 550 for 120 cows look back on the dairy thread zero milk withdrawal

5 euro/head or equivlent to the price of 20 litres of milk at 25c/L. Would seriously consider it. I think worm burden a real issue this time of year. my self and the young lad think that we will dose in early/mid August in future with a pour on an avermectin. I think it costs about a euro for a 700kg animal depending on pack size.

kevthegaff

Bass Reeves wrote:

5 euro/head or equivlent to the price of 20 litres of milk at 25c/L. Would seriously consider it. I think worm burden a real issue this time of year. my self and the young lad think that we will dose in early/mid August in future with a pour on an avermectin. I think it costs about a euro for a 700kg animal depending on pack size.

Expensive but found since I bought in heifers had alot of coughing 6 weeks ago, but cleared up since pour on.

Bass Reeves

kevthegaff wrote: »

Expensive but found since I bought in heifers had alot of coughing 6 weeks ago, but cleared up since pour on.

Avermectin injection are very cheap about 20c for a 500kg animal pour on avermection are about 75c/head for same weight. Tend to overdose here by 30-50kgs to prevent immunity.

Muckit

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Finishing cattle on grass 670-730 kgs on 3-4 kgs of rations( barley70% Hulls 30%). Grass on its own a waste of time at the moment. Will go another kg on a few AA, HE and FR but not on a few JEx(too poor to convert to beef Fr are questionable as well.

Dosed some with ivermectin pour on because of only 30 day withdrawal for meat about 10 days ago. I had more going two days ago that were not done similar cattle a bit of a difference in thrive in those 10 days. Worms a real issue is there any worm dose with a short withdrawal (24-48 hours) for milk as a matter of interest. Can you do milking cows with copper as an oral dose????.

After that use plenty of hulls in any ration go to 50% and balance with barley/Maize and soya. A lot of sh!te barley around we are talking about it in the beef thread. If you can get good barley I go with it. I think 15% soya, 50% hulls and 35% maize or barley will give you a 15% ration. should come in around 230-250/ton as a ration add 20 yoyo's for a nut though some millers are charging less of a margin on nuts but you have to add molasses as a binder.

How are you so sure it's worms Bass? I'm sure you dosed during summer. One would think cattle that age would have built up immunity. Wet autumn grass will scour cattle too as you know.

The way beef price is gone i wouldn't be going so OTT. Dose might b cheap but value your time and hassle.

Mooooo

Dung sample if you think that is the issue. Did cows in late July as coughing in parlour. No coughing recently anyway and dung solid. It's the low grass dm as BP eluded too above being the big issue

Bass Reeves

Muckit wrote: »

How are you so sure it's worms Bass? I'm sure you dosed during summer. One would think cattle that age would have built up immunity. Wet autumn grass will scour cattle too as you know.

The way beef price is gone i wouldn't be going so OTT. Dose might b cheap but value your time and hassle.

Got two cattle with peunomia this August. Something similar to Fog Fever. Dung around the tails. One bullock in particular was not thriving he has turned inside out in the 10 days since the dose. Dosing with pour on is no hassle. Throw them into the crush or shed sometime you are moving between paddocks and go through them in 10 minutes. it is hassle when you had not planned to do it. Young lad did it on his own one Saturday as I got caught with work.

kevthegaff

Bass Reeves wrote:

Got two cattle with peunomia this August. Something similar to Fog Fever. Dung around the tails. One bullock in particular was not thriving he has turned inside out in the 10 days since the dose. Dosing with pour on is no hassle. Throw them into the crush or shed sometime you are moving between paddocks and go through them in 10 minutes. it is hassle when you had not planned to do it. Young lad did it on his own one Saturday as I got caught with work.

Very similar sister thought cow had fog fever but was grand next day.

mf240

Left in three bales yesterday. 60 cows have it swallowed just at milking time. Getting 5 Kgs nuts as well. No feed in grass this time of year.

Before any one takes the head off me. All silage ground is away from home so no after grass . And stocked at 3.44

Probably be better off with a few less cows but I'm too
Dam stubborn for that.

Mooooo

First time in with silage this year? Doing very well if so at that stocking rate

mf240

Mooooo wrote: »

First time in with silage this year? Doing very well if so at that stocking rate

No fed some in early August. It's been a good year for grass here . We seem to have got better weather than some other parts of the country.

freedominacup

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Finishing cattle on grass 670-730 kgs on 3-4 kgs of rations( barley70% Hulls 30%). Grass on its own a waste of time at the moment. Will go another kg on a few AA, HE and FR but not on a few JEx(too poor to convert to beef Fr are questionable as well.

Dosed some with ivermectin pour on because of only 30 day withdrawal for meat about 10 days ago. I had more going two days ago that were not done similar cattle a bit of a difference in thrive in those 10 days. Worms a real issue is there any worm dose with a short withdrawal (24-48 hours) for milk as a matter of interest. Can you do milking cows with copper as an oral dose????.

After that use plenty of hulls in any ration go to 50% and balance with barley/Maize and soya. A lot of sh!te barley around we are talking about it in the beef thread. If you can get good barley I go with it. I think 15% soya, 50% hulls and 35% maize or barley will give you a 15% ration. should come in around 230-250/ton as a ration add 20 yoyo's for a nut though some millers are charging less of a margin on nuts but you have to add molasses as a binder.

Seems like a high inclusion rate for hulls unless you're filling a hole. They don't have a great feed value do they? More about getting digestible fibre in than energy?

feckin day gone again!!

There's an issue with hoose this yr... even in adult cattle. .. eprinex is handy for milking cows. . Expensive but a really good pour on. .

Bass Reeves

freedominacup wrote: »

Seems like a high inclusion rate for hulls unless you're filling a hole. They don't have a great feed value do they? More about getting digestible fibre in than energy?

Feed value very similar to barley. They are a fibre based energy as opposed to a starch based one. Very under rated feed at grass especially this time of year and even more so with the way barley is this year. If they were the same price as barley this year I would feed them straight.

Huge advantages with them you can feed at high rates with no accidosis. Me is 11.8 I think Barley is 12 or slightly over. They will also be maybe slightly higher DM at 87-90% as opposed to 84%. Finally they are a very consistant product.

Sam Kade

mf240 wrote: »

Left in three bales yesterday. 60 cows have it swallowed just at milking time. Getting 5 Kgs nuts as well. No feed in grass this time of year.

Before any one takes the head off me. All silage ground is away from home so no after grass . And stocked at 3.44

Probably be better off with a few less cows but I'm too
Dam stubborn for that.

Won't your milk protein drop with the silage? My cows will be lucky if they see silage by mid November. They have plenty grass and 3 kgs ration.

Muckit

Mooooo wrote: »

First time in with silage this year?

Real jack kennedy talk there. 'Going in with silage'.... 'oh Lord.....cover my back.'

You'd swear twas a swat team feeding the silage.

Timmaay

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Feed value very similar to barley. They are a fibre based energy as opposed to a starch based one. Very under rated feed at grass especially this time of year and even more so with the way barley is this year. If they were the same price as barley this year I would feed them straight.

Huge advantages with them you can feed at high rates with no accidosis. Me is 11.8 I think Barley is 12 or slightly over. They will also be maybe slightly higher DM at 87-90% as opposed to 84%. Finally they are a very consistant product.

Agreed, I'm hearing nothing but good things about soyahulls. Free you said don't feed fodder till your feeding 4kg in the parlour, personally I might try a 5kg mix of nuts, barley and hulls, should work out about 195/200 blown in, or 20c/DM. The alternative yet is to start feeding the maize once it's pitted, stick to the 2.5kg nuts and 2.5kg maize, with maize at 16c/kgdm I'd be saving 9e/day on the 90cows still milking here, that's not worth the hassle of pricking about at every day over adjusting the parlour feeders once!

feckin day gone again!!

I'm back about d weather again! We'd 38 mm of rain in sligo/mayo last nite in 12 hrs... plenty of grass but it's battered into d ground. If cows are just swallowing saturated grass there's no feeding in it.. threw meal in a plastic trough yesterday eve at 21.00... I actually measured d water in it this morning. .. 38mm...

Welding Rod

Few experts in here I must say on feed options.
Any recommendations for batch of Jan / Feb born bull weanlings. Weaned over a month now. On good cover if grass and 4kg day 15% Weanling ration.
Well covered for lung worm etc, and seem to be thriving ok.
However fierce dirty backend and several showing too much gut for my liking.
Offerd straw but not taking to it too well. It's last years and not top quality in any case.

Mooooo

Muckit wrote: »

Mooooo wrote: »

First time in with silage this year?

Real jack kennedy talk there. 'Going in with silage'.... 'oh Lord.....cover my back.'

You'd swear twas a swat team feeding the silage.

No problem going in with silage or ration here. Just at the higher stocking rates more grass you can grow and use less work in shoulders buffering them in and out of the shed with silage that's the only point I was making. Don't think jack Kennedy would be too fond of my place anyway winter milk 1.5 ton of ration and maize silage ha

mf240

Got the first results since "going in with silage"

Protein gone up .1 and butterfat .4

Was expecting butterfat to go up but thought the protein would fall.

mahoney_j

mf240 wrote: »

Got the first results since "going in with silage"

Protein gone up .1 and butterfat .4

Was expecting butterfat to go up but thought the protein would fall.

Silage must be good and your increasing dmi

mf240

Muckit wrote: »

Real jack kennedy talk there. 'Going in with silage'.... 'oh Lord.....cover my back.'

You'd swear twas a swat team feeding the silage.

You could make a film out of it. Staring brad "pit" and a few topless cubicles for the lads.

orm0nd

mf240 wrote: »

Got the first results since "going in with silage"

Protein gone up .1 and butterfat .4

Was expecting butterfat to go up but thought the protein would fall.

mahoney_j wrote: »

Silage must be good and your increasing dmi

p up .1 and b/f up .2 , urea down from 42 to 33, by introducing straw after milking, in theory grass was just passing through too much water,

introducing high quality haylage 2 moro , need to keep what straw we have for winter,

if weather improves & grass dries out we will go with good quality second cut .

Dawggone

mf240 wrote: »

You could make a film out of it. Staring brad "pit" and a few topless cubicles for the lads.

Lol.

mahoney_j

Weather gone to sh1t ,grass likewise despite having oodles of it cows discontent today for first time since spring .straw left out in passage and there not refusing holding off on silage for now as if they get it it'll unsettle them more and make cleanout harder .12 hour breaks from tonight and meal upped to flat 4 kg .cows were doing 1.87 kg ms on Friday ,going on milking this am itll be back a bit

orm0nd

mahoney_j wrote: »

Weather gone to sh1t ,grass likewise despite having oodles of it cows discontent today for first time since spring .straw left out in passage and there not refusing holding off on silage for now as if they get it it'll unsettle them more and make cleanout harder .12 hour breaks from tonight and meal upped to flat 4 kg .cows were doing 1.87 kg ms on Friday ,going on milking this am itll be back a bit

cows very content here, but I'll admit clean out is poor ,

using sheep with 3 strands of electric fence to clean off, very time consuming but it's better than poaching ,

hopefully will get another light grazing in Nov.

Sam Kade

mf240 wrote: »

You could make a film out of it. Staring brad "pit" and a few topless cubicles for the lads.

And Jack Kennedy could narrate it, Jack's voice would make it a flop though, bore the audience sh1tless he would.