So i landed myself in a bit of a mess

Sgt Hartman

I've been going with a Brazilian guy for the last year or so and we really care for each other. I'm living in Dublin and so far I've managed to keep the relationship a secret from my parents in Limerick, mainly because I'm terrified of coming out to them, especially my Dad. The main problem is that my partner's student visa expires in April and he cannot afford to renew it. I don't have much money myself to help him. He's quite down about it and he's been hinting at me to get married so that we can stay together in Ireland. I'm now caught between a rock and a hard place. If I don't marry him I'll have failed him completely because he'll have to go back to Brazil in April. We'll both be miserable as a result. If I do decide to marry him I'm utterly terrified of my dad's reaction, he'll totally flip the lid. As I said they don't even know I'm gay, never mind being in a relationship for the last year.
It's something that would only happen to me, I have absolutely no karma whatsoever. I'm so stressed out about it. I just wish I had the balls to come out to my parents and tell them everything. It's a mess !!

Mr. Incognito

Firstly, never get married for a VISA

A marriage is a very difficult thing to reverse and a one year relationship is not enough for a foundation for a marriage.

It's much cheaper to give him half the money to renew it rather than half of all the money you own now and in the future.

newacc2015

I'm sorry, but IMO you are being taken for a ride. Renewing a student visa is not that expensive. The GNIB card is about €500 and you have to do an English class or someone other BS course from a dodgy "college" to get the visa. I have met Brazilians on student visas for several years.

Let's look the the marriage route. If it doesn't work out, you will have to wait 4 years to divorce him. As a young person that's a massive wait and legal fees aren't cheap.

A lot of people learning English are great guys. But a lot of them are looking to get married for a visa. When they start looking for someone to marry them in a short term due to visa issues. I think you can guess what their real objective in having a relationship with an EU citizen is

Getting married as he can't afford a visa is not a good reason to get married. He is only concerned about himself ie spending his own money and not concerned with the welfare of both of you.

Renewing a Visa is annual. It should not be a surprise. He has close to 7 months to save for it

suicide_circus

An acquaintance of mine married his brazilian boyfriend for the same reason. Guess what...they're now having marriage problems and your man has moved out. Needless to say, no one is surprised and our acquaintance feels humiliated.

Toots

If the visa wasn't an issue would you feel ready to get married?

HalloweenJack

The Brazilians that come to study in Ireland are not from poor backgrounds (the expense involved in just travelling halfway around the world, paying for accomodation and cost of livng, etc.) is not insubstantial in Brazilian terms. I would be very surprised if his own family could not afford to pay the cost to renew his visa. My guess is they've probably said no.

The most important thing however: do you actually want to marry him? I also know of several people who got married to help with a visa, all these relationships are over and at a hefty cost, financial and mental. This is a major point to consider. Do you really see yourself spending the rest of your life with him?

I can understand there's pressure from him and on him and there's an emotional attachment which can be exploited but you need to be firm. If you don't want to marry him, don't. It's not a short-term, quick fix, it's quite a big deal and if it's not for life, it's not worth it.

Frankly, this is not really related to the fact you aren't out. I'd focus more on the more pressing issue itself (the possibility of marriage) as opposed to rushing into something else you're not yet ready for.

lawred2

Sgt Hartman wrote: »

I've been going with a Brazilian guy for the last year or so and we really care for each other. I'm living in Dublin and so far I've managed to keep the relationship a secret from my parents in Limerick, mainly because I'm terrified of coming out to them, especially my Dad. The main problem is that my partner's student visa expires in April and he cannot afford to renew it. I don't have much money myself to help him. He's quite down about it and he's been hinting at me to get married so that we can stay together in Ireland. I'm now caught between a rock and a hard place. If I don't marry him I'll have failed him completely because he'll have to go back to Brazil in April. We'll both be miserable as a result. If I do decide to marry him I'm utterly terrified of my dad's reaction, he'll totally flip the lid. As I said they don't even know I'm gay, never mind being in a relationship for the last year.
It's something that would only happen to me, I have absolutely no karma whatsoever. I'm so stressed out about it. I just wish I had the balls to come out to my parents and tell them everything. It's a mess !!

Getting married for a visa could be a very bad idea..

Irish_Elect_Eng

Has he suggested that you travel to Brazil to be with him there?

Shint0

Irish_Elect_Eng wrote: »

Has he suggested that you travel to Brazil to be with him there?

I still wouldn't even go by that as a sign of a relationship not being about a visa. It's a common tactic for some people interested in marriage for visa purposes to suggest to the other partner to live in their country as a deflection tactic. Once married they often change their mind, funnily enough, and suggest living in the country of the spouse instead.

A lot of the replies here have been warning the OP off and rightly so, in my opinion. I hope it hasn't come as a shock to the OP who might never have considered the relationship might not be genuine and of course it could well be genuine but it's still something he must take into consideration as a possibility.

B00MSTICK

I'm very certain getting married doesn't magically grant him a visa.

Even if you did manage to get one by applying to get married, getting married and then providing the heaps of documentation and evidence of the relationship in order to get a marriage visa ye would still have to pay for it.

As others have said an English language course and student visa would be the easiest route. Get a loan and make sure he pays it off. Should be no issue if he loves you.

batmanrobin

How will you have failed him, OP? Being able to pay for his visa is his responsibility and as another posted said, he's got months to save for it.

I understand you care for him but you really need to think logically. Marrying for a visa would be a very bad idea. Marriage is hard enough when love is the reason people get married. Doing it for a visa might make it ten times harder.

You need to look out for yourself first and foremost. If he drops anymore hints you need to tell him straight out its not an option. His reaction will tell you his real motives. A year isn't terribly long to be with someone. You don't know if you could live happily with this person. You haven't even come out to your family yet. Marriage changes the dynamic of a relationship.

Be very careful about how you proceed. You'd have to be separated 4 times longer than you've known him for in order to get a divorce if you did marry him.

Clampdown

Marrying someone you have been going out with for only a year, when you haven't been living together and you're young enough to be student age? And you're parents haven't even had a chance to absorb the fact their son is gay?

This may sound harsh, but that is IMO, freaking insane.

Shint0

B00MSTICK wrote: »

I'm very certain getting married doesn't magically grant him a visa.

Even if you did manage to get one by applying to get married, getting married and then providing the heaps of documentation and evidence of the relationship in order to get a marriage visa ye would still have to pay for it.

As others have said an English language course and student visa would be the easiest route. Get a loan and make sure he pays it off. Should be no issue if he loves you.

It's much more difficult if the other partner is residing outside of the state.

In the case of the OP's boyfriend he already has residency by way of a Stamp 2 as he's currently living in Ireland but can only work a maximum of twenty hours per week officially. After marriage here he would apply for a Stamp 4 which would entitle him to work full time and apply for citizenship after three years of marriage. The application process is nowhere as difficult in this case where they already have a Stamp 2 compared to if they had never resided in Ireland. It can be surprisingly easy to gain with little documentation required except for the marriage certificate etc. and depending on which Garda Immigration office is handling the application and the individual Garda Immigration Officer very few questions can be asked with a marriage being taken at face value if the couple appear genuine.

A Registrar does now have the power to question the authenticity of the marriage when a couple comes to give three months notice if they suspect a sham marriage might take place but this usually happens where the bride and groom might not even speak the same language or the bride is from an Eastern European country. As the OP and his boyfriend have been together for a while no suspicions might be raised or questions asked in this case.

stargazer 68

Shint0 wrote: »

A Registrar does now have the power to question the authenticity of the marriage when a couple comes to give three months notice if they suspect a sham marriage might take place but this usually happens where the bride and groom might not even speak the same language or the bride is from an Eastern European country. As the OP and his boyfriend have been together for a while no suspicions might be raised or questions asked in this case.

I have been in the office when one of these interviews takes place and its quite daunting. One party was sent out of the room and the other questioned about their families, have they met them, their siblings and parents etc. Then they swapped over the the other was asked the same question. OP's parents don't even know he is gay let alone considering marriage!

OP its a crazy idea. Apart from illegal it will bite you in the long run

Shint0

Dovies wrote: »

I have been in the office when one of these interviews takes place and its quite daunting. One party was sent out of the room and the other questioned about their families, have they met them, their siblings and parents etc. Then they swapped over the the other was asked the same question. OP's parents don't even know he is gay let alone considering marriage!

OP its a crazy idea. Apart from illegal it will bite you in the long run

In that situation did the non-national already have residency in Ireland like the OP's boyfriend currently does or not? You haven't made that clear in your post. As I said it really depends on which Garda HQ it takes place in where the Immigration Officer is stationed and the Garda's own attitude who might ask few or no questions and just rubber stamp it if the couple appear genuine. This does happen. Outside of Dublin it can sometimes be a much more simple straightforward and fast process which would make it very easy for somebody to marry to gain a Stamp 4.

Apologies again to the OP as their post seemed more concerned about what their family would think and may now have to contemplate if their relationship is genuine which might not be something he previously considered before posting. Of course it could be genuine but if his boyfriend is suggesting to marry in order to stay in the country he does need to give the views here consideration. Depending on his boyfriend's area of study or occupation he could suggest to him to apply to various companies to see if they would be willing to sponsor him for an employment visa but this usually does require having a specific skill set which would be in demand.

stargazer 68

Shint0 wrote: »

In that situation did the non-national already have residency in Ireland like the OP's boyfriend currently does or not? You haven't made that clear in your post. .

Aplogies - it was the Registrars office. Both parties spoke perfect English and had been together 5 years! I don't know about the residency.

Shint0

Dovies wrote: »

Aplogies - it was the Registrars office. Both parties spoke perfect English and had been together 5 years! I don't know about the residency.

In my situation my husband had come here as a mature student to do a postgraduate in a reputable university and had residency on the back of that. Back then a Registrar didn't have the power to question a marriage like they do now. If it was today I still don't think we would be questioned much in our particular circumstances so somebody still could slip through the net compared to if the couple were from an uneducated/non-professional background where they might face more scrutiny. Again it can come down to the individual Registrar when a couple comes to give notice. The OP didn't really give any detail on his boyfriend's area of study/occupation.

MissFlitworth

Depending on how far along the OP's boyfriend is in his education here it could be pretty expensive to stay. You can't stay doing a basic English course, once you complete a course you have to level up for your next one. If you've been here long enough you get to the point where you have to sign up to a level 7/8/ 9 FETAC (with international fees - not insignifcant) to continue.

But, OP, don't get married to someone because they need something from you. He might be let down but if it doesn't work out it takes 4 years to get divorced here. It's a huge, huge decision to make and not something you should do unless you're certain in your heart & mind that it's the right decision for you. Ok it's awful that he can't stay if he wants to but he came over on a student visa, he has to have known this day would come along, what was his plan if he hadn't met an person who could marry him and help him stay? If he moves back to Brazil you can visit, he can come over as a tourist, and you can progress your relationship and see if you get to a point where you do actually want to be married to him.

Shint0

MissFlitworth wrote: »

Depending on how far along the OP's boyfriend is in his education here it could be pretty expensive to stay. You can't stay doing a basic English course, once you complete a course you have to level up for your next one. If you've been here long enough you get to the point where you have to sign up to a level 7/8/ 9 FETAC (with international fees - not insignifcant) to continue.

While I can't go into detail here, I do know of situations where bribes are offered and accepted in order to get around that but obviously marriage to an Irish or EU citizen is by far the most attractive and least expensive option if a non-EEA national can't find an employer to sponsor them.

Putting the marriage on hold obviously woud be a good test of the relationship.

ManOfMystery

I can only echo what others said OP. Absolutely do not enter into marriage unless its for the right reasons.

You're not in a mess yet in my eyes, as your thread title says, but you will be if you pursue a marriage and dodgy visa with this guy.

ElChe32

Why not just renew a student visa, he is entitled to do it three times taking an English course, courses cost between 1,300 to 2k. Have you thought about going down the de facto route? If he renews for another year you will have two years together, start getting documents together, proof of your relationship etc. He will get a stamp 4 if the application goes through and no need for marriage. First things first, don't get married for a visa. Renew student visa.

Shint0

ElChe32 wrote: »

Why not just renew a student visa, he is entitled to do it three times taking an English course, courses cost between 1,300 to 2k. Have you thought about going down the de facto route? If he renews for another year you will have two years together, start getting documents together, proof of your relationship etc. He will get a stamp 4 if the application goes through and no need for marriage. First things first, don't get married for a visa. Renew student visa.

OP has said his boyfriend is not in a financial position to renew the visa and he can't afford help him either. That's why the boyfriend has been hinting at getting married. With the de facto application they have to have actual proof of cohabiting/living together for two years before they can make the application not just be in a relationship where they are 'going with each other' as the OP described. Therefore marriage would seem like the most favourable option from his boyfriend's persepective which I'm sure the boyfriend is probably already familiar with the visa and residency requirements.

LegacyUser

To my best knowledge he does not need to marry to get a visa.

Yeah that would make things easier to him, not having to queue for renewals every year and above all not depending on you or on your relationship to stay in the country.

As far as I know, as others said, he can get a student visa and still do some work.

This was quite a while back, when I was dating a Brazilian (we knew each other for over 8 years) and neither of us wanted to marry for the sake of a visa. We applied for Stamp 4 which allowed him to stay in the country, and again as others said, most Brazilians here are from middle/upper class, which means they want to learn the language but they are no starving refugees.

Just my two cents. x

Big Bag of Chips

I don't think you should feel like your relationship is a lie, or a ruse to get a visa. There is every chance that your bf genuinely feels that you will be together forever. I'm sure you feel the same. Most couples do in the early days!! It's all good. There are no worries or commitments. "Life" hasn't gotten in your way, as such, yet. It's a romantic idea for a romantic relationship.

But it's a bad idea. You feel it. Your bf, if he's brutally honest with himself probably feels it. But at the moment, you're so loved up nothing can go wrong! I remember when my mother realised I was sexually active with my first serious bf. She told me to be careful. If I got pregnant he'd could disappear I'd be the one bringing up a baby, he'd be a weekend Dad etc! I wouldn't believe a word of it. Sure we were so in love. Nothing would ever break us up..... We broke up about 4 months later!! (I wasn't pregnant!) I still smile at my innocence, and my insistence that I was old enough to know what I was doing and mature enough to know my relationship!!

Be careful.

Marriage is big. And legal! There are other ways around this, and even if there aren't, then you've had a lovely time with a lovely man, and you'll both be devastated, but ultimately you'll both move on.

Sgt Hartman

Thanks everybody for the advice here. Anyway I decided, there isn't a hope in Hell of me getting married any time soon, especially due to the fact that I haven't even had the balls to come out to my parents yet. I would only make an already complicated issue even more of an utter mess. My bf is gonna try his best to renew his GNIB card, I'll help him if needs be. In the meantime it's about time I finally made an attempt to come out to my parents. I know for sure my mother will be fine with it. I've a feeling my dad will as well somehow. Myself and the bf are gonna look for a place together in the new year and we'll see how things work out living with each other before we even contemplate marriage Thanks again everyone.