Vets warn people about getting flat faced dogs

cowboyBuilder

Vets are warning would-be dog owners to think twice before buying breeds with fashionably "flat-faced" features - because of concerns over their welfare.
Pugs, bulldogs, French bulldogs, shih-tzus and Cavalier King Charles Spaniels have become sought-after in the UK, despite wide-ranging health problems.
Their appeal is attributed to having "squashed" faces and wrinkled noses.
The British Veterinary Association said the surge in popularity of these dogs has "increased animal suffering".
....

full story http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-37423040

What do you think ?

Cute as those little pugs are , I always feel bad for the poor feckers - especially here in Spain where they pant away and look in extreme discomfort - some people get them as fashion accessories too .. :mad:

kylith

I think it's a good thing and would be In favour of a massive campaign on this. How people can claim to love dogs and then buy a breed that's condemned to a life of misery is beyond me. IMO breeders of these dogs should be done for cruelty.

Ms Doubtfire1

the surge of demand for those dogs has increased back yard breeding, and, as a result, uncontrolled inbreeding which does cause these dogs to suffer-and massively.It's irresponsible and downright cruel.

Just google a picture of any of those dogs even 35 years ago-the difference is shocking.all to serve people demand for 'cuteness'. grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.:mad::mad::mad::mad:

Latatian

It's not just back yard breeding- the show dogs look appalling too. Anyone remember Danny, the best in show at Crufts in 2003?

No option left for the bulldog really but out-crossing, you won't get to a normal face and normal genetics by pulling out the tiny proportion with better faces and breeding them.

I don't think you can call yourself an ethical breeder and breed these dogs unless your dogs have been actually tested for oxygen saturation, including perhaps exercise testing. Too many dogs I've seen that were obviously in distress whose owners thought they were fine- a bit like the snarling hell-beasts you see whose owners coo over them and let them over to other dogs to be 'friends'.

Wanna bet if you got some individuals of these breeds with faces that allowed them to breathe, you'd get people complaining they looked too much like mixes?

Bunnyslippers

I'd love to see the owners and breeders of these deformed breeds have their face smushed up and their eyes popping out so far they dry up all in the name of someone warped thinking it's cute, see how they like what they've inflicted on their animals!!:(
Always makes me mad when such extremes are bred into any animal, the short legs and long backs of dashunds is just awful too, not to mention the ridiculous excessive skin of breeds like Neapolitan mastiffs, Bassetts etc!
Mind you the vets I've worked for in the past always loved these breeds as it means more money for them in vet bills, I don't think I've met a vet yet who thinks the breeding of these poor creatures is in any way acceptable though!:(

Did you see the Pekingese at crufts last year, it couldn't even walk let alone breath - how is that acceptable?! If you look on their Facebook page there were tons and tons of people complaining about the GSD and the peke as well as other deformed breeds, I think they stopped replying, maybe the message is sort of getting through about what the general public think of a few dumb individuals who breed them just to make money, as there is no other reason for breeding these deformities at all, they don't benefit the dogs!

They do it in cats too which is just as bad!

kylith

I read a statement from he KC about this and they blamed unethical breeders from Europe. I was livid! It's their own judges passing these dogs at shows. Like that poor GSD this year. The KCs need to lead the charge on this by removing these breeds from shows until they have been bred to a standard where they are healthy, and damn what the breed clubs say. They need to roundly denounce flat-faced breeds in a public manner.

peasant

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

... as a result, uncontrolled inbreeding which does cause these dogs to suffer-and massively.It's irresponsible and downright cruel.

Errrmmm ...it was controlled inbreeding (i.e. pedigree breeding) that created these dogs in the first place and made the noses ever shorter and the faces ever flatter.

Not that I mean to condone puppy farming and/or bad backyard breeding, but in case of these breeds the "proper" breeders are just as irresponsible and cruel.

These poor dogs couln't breathe 50 years ago and they still can't ...and if anything they have gotten worse.

I welcome the vet campaign.

taytobreath

yep totally agree, it should of been highlighted years ago, hopefully it will gather some pace.Some of those poor dogs cant walk 10 metres without panting and wheezing and they've an average life of just 7 or 8 years compared to 12 or 13 years for a long nosed dog.

peasant

Saw this on YLYL and thought of this thread

BrokenArrows

cowboyBuilder wrote: »

What do you think ?

Cute as those little pugs are , I always feel bad for the poor feckers - especially here in Spain where they pant away and look in extreme discomfort - some people get them as fashion accessories too .. :mad:

I would go so far as to almost ban their pure breeding.

They are breeding what is essentially a disabled dog and its only getting worse. All this has happened in a very short space of time and if current trends keep going in another 100 years all these breeds will simply be dead at birth because they are unable to breath.

If you look at old art from the 1700's+ all these dogs that we see now as "flat faced" dogs, they all have much more pronounced noses and were probably much better at breathing.

Pure breeding is a flawed concept, not just for "flat faced" breeds but for all breeds in general.
So many health problems are created from it, and not all as obvious as a breathing problem.
eg.
Dachshunds are being bread too long and suffer huge spinal issues.
Bloodhounds and loads of eye related issues, infections and deformities.
Newfoundland's have lots of heart issues, probably attributed to their size.
Lots of what would be considered a "proper dog", retrievers, german Shepherd's etc all have high rates of hip and joint issues.
Cancer rates seem to be very high on all "pure breed" animals.

razorblunt

Met up with a friend last Friday night who was minding his brother in law's French Bulldog. It was an absolutely gorgeous dog and I remember thinking it looked "weird", when in fact it was probably the most normal French Bulldog I've seen. He was incredibly well bred, the breeder was saying they're done though after the next litter and apparently the BIL himself gets grief off people for giving his dog the snip and not breeding him.

A vet in the UK (Bolton Veterinary Centre) wrote this a couple of days ago. Very sad.
________________

So I am going to have a rant now and I apologise in advance if this upsets anyone, but here goes.

Last week, I managed to reduce a lovely family to floods of tears. They had brought their new dog in to come and see me. There was a young lady, her husband and their two children of about 8 or 9 years old and they were all already absolutely besotted with their new pet - their first dog, and they had been planning it for several years.

The dog was a 5-month-old French Bulldog that they had picked up from a breeder about 4 weeks previously. They were concerned that their new dog may have "a chill" as the dog had sore runny eyes, difficulty in eating and kept making a choking sound. They had also noticed the dog had a "funny smell" about him.

As I examined the dog it became quickly apparent what was occurring and my heart sank. This dog was yet another increasingly popular "short-nosed" breed that was suffering horribly from a myriad of problems - all related to its poor breeding and its unfortunate anatomy.

After the examination, I found that this dog had:

- Eyeballs too big for its eye sockets. So much so, that when he blinked, the eyelids didn't fully cover the eyeballs. (Imagine going out on a windy day and not being able to blink!) This had resulted in deep painful ulcers forming on both eyes that in the short term would require intensive treatment and could feasibly result in the rupture of one or both eyeballs.

- The bones forming the front of his face (the maxilla) were so squashed by virtue of this style of this breed (called the brachycephalics), that the soft-tissue structures of the throat are compressed and forced backwards - obstructing his larynx. Amongst other things, his soft palate was so elongated (relative to his skull) that it kept getting trapped over his wind-pipe.

-His nostrils were completely occluded, so absolutely no airflow was possible through his nose. All of his breathing had to take place through his open mouth. This meant that whilst he was eating/sleeping he was going through bouts of asphyxiation and so would have to spit the food out or wake up and open his mouth - purely so he would be able to breathe. This explained the "choking" sound that there were hearing all the time. He could just manage to breathe with his mouth open, but this then exacerbated the problems with his soft palate.

- The skin fold over the top of the nose (caused by the squashed face involuting the skin) had caused a crevice of around 2-3 cms deep, where the skin was rubbing against its self. In this area, the skin was ulcerated and was full of liquid pus. It was this that the owners were smelling. This was incredibly painful for the animal and he cried every time I tried to clean it.

-The skin around his feet, ears, armpits and groin was red raw and inflamed. He clearly was very itchy and had been licking at these areas repeatedly - which had, in turn, made them more sore and painful. This is very typical of a condition called "atopy" which is very common in many breeds, particularly the Bulldogs (French and English).

So at this point, the shocked owners asked what needed to be done to sort him out. So I had to explain that he would need:

- Bilateral eyelid shortening surgery that would allow the dog to blink properly and prevent further ulcers from forming. As well as long-term medication to improve the quality of his tears.
- Complex soft tissue surgery of the back of the throat to, (amongst other things) shorten his soft palate to facilitate his breathing.
- He would need both of his nostrils opening up so as to allow adequate air flow to be possible to allow him to breathe/exercise/eat/sleep properly.
-He would need a "face-lift" to remove a large amount of excess skin on the front of his face, to try and open up the fold that was causing so much infection and pain.
-He may need allergy testing, food trials, anti-inflammatories etc to try and manage the atopic skin disease that he has.

*He needs all of this fairly urgently.
*He can't have all of this done at once and so will require several anaesthetics and complex procedures to be done over a period of time.
*He is only 5 months old.
*He needs all of this doing - just so that he can live a vaguely normal life.
*HE IS SUFFERING.

Also - he is not insured. It transpired that the new owners looked into insurance but the premium was so high for this breed, that they felt they couldn't afford it. To move forward, he would have to go to a specialist veterinary unit (sadly recently set up to deal with the increasing number of very poorly brachycephalic dogs with extreme conformational issues) and this treatment could cost upwards of £8,000 to correct.

Once I had discussed all this with the owners - they were understandably distraught. They had hoped for a "cute" and "cuddly" family pet that they had seen examples of spread throughout popular media. They had no idea that these problems even existed. Instead, they now have a much-loved dog that is miserable, has a long journey ahead of it and one that they cannot afford to have fixed.

The family left the room in floods of tears, armed with medication that would temporarily alleviate some of the symptoms and try to make the poor little dog more comfortable. From what I have later found out, this dog has gone to a rescue centre to be rehomed. It may have moved away, but its problems most certainly will not have done.

************************************

Pugs, Frenchies, English Bulldogs and Shar-Peis are amongst the breeds which are increasingly being abandoned in vast numbers as people cannot cope with their ongoing problems, illnesses and costs. It upsets us all hugely when we see how many of the problems frequently associated with these breeds are now classed as "normal". I will commonly hear "Oh it is normal for this breed to struggle with A, B or C". NO IT ISN'T NORMAL!

These trendy flat-faced breeds are some of the most expensive puppies to currently buy. There is serious money for people who sell a litter of these puppies and so the incentive to breed is VERY high. It must be said that there are responsible breeders who are trying to "back-breed" these types of dogs to have longer noses, smaller eyes, more open nostrils etc and try to reduce the incidence of these conditions, and these people should be applauded. However, puppy farms and irresponsible owners are rife, and these "breeders" don't seem to care a jot about the long-term prognosis and what the future holds for "their" breed.

It is also worth noting that many of these breeds are unable to give birth naturally now too (due to the shape of the puppy's skulls) and so the mothers often go through multiple caesareans...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP AND THINK before you buy. Come and talk to US about the breeds that you are interested in - and we shall give you the whole picture.

I am completely exhausted and totally demoralised seeing these type of problems on a daily basis. There are enough horrible illnesses, diseases and potential accidents out there without being destined to be unwell before you are even born.

Whilst people are still buying poor examples of these dogs, people will still breed them and the problem will never go away.

sillysmiles

Deleted User wrote: »

From what I have later found out, this dog has gone to a rescue centre to be rehomed. It may have moved away, but its problems most certainly will not have done.

To me, this is the worst part of this. THey wanted a cute puppy but when the problems were unmanagable, they abandonned it rather than discussing with the vet about quality of life.

loveisdivine

Do you have a link or anything to that article, I'd love to share it.

sillysmiles

sillysmiles wrote: »

To me, this is the worst part of this. THey wanted a cute puppy but when the problems were unmanagable, they abandonned it rather than discussing with the vet about quality of life.

I know. And it's not clear whether the extent of the pups issues were explained to the rescue, whether he'll get the help he needs or whether another family will take him on relatively clueless. The vet clarified a few points on Fb afterwards. Like she did give them the option of euthanasia.

loveisdivine

loveisdivine wrote: »

Do you have a link or anything to that article, I'd love to share it.

If you go to bilton veterinary centre on Facebook you'll see it. It was only posted in the last couple days.

mistybluehills

[Deleted User] wrote: »

A vet in the UK (Bolton Veterinary Centre) wrote this a couple of days ago. Very sad.
________________

So I am going to have a rant now and I apologise in advance if this upsets anyone, but here goes.

Last week, I managed to reduce a lovely family to floods of tears. They had brought their new dog in to come and see me. There was a young lady, her husband and their two children of about 8 or 9 years old and they were all already absolutely besotted with their new pet - their first dog, and they had been planning it for several years.

The dog was a 5-month-old French Bulldog that they had picked up from a breeder about 4 weeks previously. They were concerned that their new dog may have "a chill" as the dog had sore runny eyes, difficulty in eating and kept making a choking sound. They had also noticed the dog had a "funny smell" about him.

As I examined the dog it became quickly apparent what was occurring and my heart sank. This dog was yet another increasingly popular "short-nosed" breed that was suffering horribly from a myriad of problems - all related to its poor breeding and its unfortunate anatomy.

After the examination, I found that this dog had:

- Eyeballs too big for its eye sockets. So much so, that when he blinked, the eyelids didn't fully cover the eyeballs. (Imagine going out on a windy day and not being able to blink!) This had resulted in deep painful ulcers forming on both eyes that in the short term would require intensive treatment and could feasibly result in the rupture of one or both eyeballs.

- The bones forming the front of his face (the maxilla) were so squashed by virtue of this style of this breed (called the brachycephalics), that the soft-tissue structures of the throat are compressed and forced backwards - obstructing his larynx. Amongst other things, his soft palate was so elongated (relative to his skull) that it kept getting trapped over his wind-pipe.

-His nostrils were completely occluded, so absolutely no airflow was possible through his nose. All of his breathing had to take place through his open mouth. This meant that whilst he was eating/sleeping he was going through bouts of asphyxiation and so would have to spit the food out or wake up and open his mouth - purely so he would be able to breathe. This explained the "choking" sound that there were hearing all the time. He could just manage to breathe with his mouth open, but this then exacerbated the problems with his soft palate.

- The skin fold over the top of the nose (caused by the squashed face involuting the skin) had caused a crevice of around 2-3 cms deep, where the skin was rubbing against its self. In this area, the skin was ulcerated and was full of liquid pus. It was this that the owners were smelling. This was incredibly painful for the animal and he cried every time I tried to clean it.

-The skin around his feet, ears, armpits and groin was red raw and inflamed. He clearly was very itchy and had been licking at these areas repeatedly - which had, in turn, made them more sore and painful. This is very typical of a condition called "atopy" which is very common in many breeds, particularly the Bulldogs (French and English).

So at this point, the shocked owners asked what needed to be done to sort him out. So I had to explain that he would need:

- Bilateral eyelid shortening surgery that would allow the dog to blink properly and prevent further ulcers from forming. As well as long-term medication to improve the quality of his tears.
- Complex soft tissue surgery of the back of the throat to, (amongst other things) shorten his soft palate to facilitate his breathing.
- He would need both of his nostrils opening up so as to allow adequate air flow to be possible to allow him to breathe/exercise/eat/sleep properly.
-He would need a "face-lift" to remove a large amount of excess skin on the front of his face, to try and open up the fold that was causing so much infection and pain.
-He may need allergy testing, food trials, anti-inflammatories etc to try and manage the atopic skin disease that he has.

*He needs all of this fairly urgently.
*He can't have all of this done at once and so will require several anaesthetics and complex procedures to be done over a period of time.
*He is only 5 months old.
*He needs all of this doing - just so that he can live a vaguely normal life.
*HE IS SUFFERING.

Also - he is not insured. It transpired that the new owners looked into insurance but the premium was so high for this breed, that they felt they couldn't afford it. To move forward, he would have to go to a specialist veterinary unit (sadly recently set up to deal with the increasing number of very poorly brachycephalic dogs with extreme conformational issues) and this treatment could cost upwards of £8,000 to correct.

Once I had discussed all this with the owners - they were understandably distraught. They had hoped for a "cute" and "cuddly" family pet that they had seen examples of spread throughout popular media. They had no idea that these problems even existed. Instead, they now have a much-loved dog that is miserable, has a long journey ahead of it and one that they cannot afford to have fixed.

The family left the room in floods of tears, armed with medication that would temporarily alleviate some of the symptoms and try to make the poor little dog more comfortable. From what I have later found out, this dog has gone to a rescue centre to be rehomed. It may have moved away, but its problems most certainly will not have done.

************************************

Pugs, Frenchies, English Bulldogs and Shar-Peis are amongst the breeds which are increasingly being abandoned in vast numbers as people cannot cope with their ongoing problems, illnesses and costs. It upsets us all hugely when we see how many of the problems frequently associated with these breeds are now classed as "normal". I will commonly hear "Oh it is normal for this breed to struggle with A, B or C". NO IT ISN'T NORMAL!

These trendy flat-faced breeds are some of the most expensive puppies to currently buy. There is serious money for people who sell a litter of these puppies and so the incentive to breed is VERY high. It must be said that there are responsible breeders who are trying to "back-breed" these types of dogs to have longer noses, smaller eyes, more open nostrils etc and try to reduce the incidence of these conditions, and these people should be applauded. However, puppy farms and irresponsible owners are rife, and these "breeders" don't seem to care a jot about the long-term prognosis and what the future holds for "their" breed.

It is also worth noting that many of these breeds are unable to give birth naturally now too (due to the shape of the puppy's skulls) and so the mothers often go through multiple caesareans...

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP AND THINK before you buy. Come and talk to US about the breeds that you are interested in - and we shall give you the whole picture.

I am completely exhausted and totally demoralised seeing these type of problems on a daily basis. There are enough horrible illnesses, diseases and potential accidents out there without being destined to be unwell before you are even born.

Whilst people are still buying poor examples of these dogs, people will still breed them and the problem will never go away.

Who would buy or breed this type of dogs after reading that???

metaoblivia

I agree, it should be made more clear that these types of dogs come with some serious life long issues. I believe the French Bulldog has trouble giving birth naturally, so a high percentage of litters are done through c-section...

I wikied it and it's not only giving birth, it's mating too. Many litters are formed through artificial insemination because the male's hips are too slim to mount the female. If a breed has that much trouble reproducing naturally, that should be a sign something isn't right.

I really dislike flat faces in cats as well (no offense to any Persian lovers). Like dogs, it's gotten more pronounced than the original Persians from years ago. To me it's physically unattractive, but like their dog counterparts they have trouble breathing and they often have leaky eyes.