Oh joy... yet another beginner homebrew thread..

Basq

Hello everyone,

While I know there is a FAQ at the top of the forum, and I do intend on reading it, I thought it would be better to just put some of my own questions out there ahead of my first homebrew attempt.

So I basically ordered this starter kit which includes:

48 Coopers Ox Bar bottles
Hydrometer
Trial jar
LCD thermometer
Paddle
Steriliser
Fermenter with tap and airlock
1 kg of Brewing sugar
Simply Pale Ale

I also ordered a no-rinse sterilizer... there was no stock of StarSan so picked up Oxi P15 instead of it - which was recommended.

With this, I've also picked up a good 13L easy-pour bucket for water - as herein lies my first question.

1. Brewing with tap-water? I did read somewhere that someone recommended filling a large bucket and leaving it out overnight to try and let any chemicals which may be present evaporate. Any thoughts on this?

Also, I've actually spotted a home-brewing step-by-step vid on YouTube, as above, in which he's dealing with the same extract kit I'm getting (Simply Pale Ale).. so I'm planning to follow that somewhat but another question from that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MRE25sJyQ4

(Am going on the assumption this guy knows what he's doing BTW!)

2. Brew Enhancer? Recommended or not? Video above seems to add it, but I'm unsure if it's necessary.

Other three items I'm intending on picking up are:

- a decent room thermometer (finding these hard to find in B&M stores - as they're either ones geared at children's rooms, or they're outdoor thermometers) as need to find a room as a fairly optimum temp. Was thinking of under the stairs but possibly too warm, or the back-hall but possibly too cold!
- a bottle brush (probably have a look in Mothercare or something for this)
- a good spray bottle for the P15

Oh, while I'm on the topic of bottles, I get 48 x Cooper Ox Bar bottles. Are they easily capped (screw-on) or would it be worth picking up a bottle capper?

Essentially, my reading so far has been very basic but I'm not planning on rush into it and will spend another week or two reading various resources online to try and get my head around things.

All I've learned so far is how important sterilisation and ideal temperature's are really.

Many thanks for listening to my brain-dump on the topic, but apologies for yet another "beginner home-brew thread!"

mordeith

Basq wrote: »

1. Brewing with tap-water? I did read somewhere that someone recommended filling a large bucket and leaving it out overnight to try and let any chemicals which may be present evaporate. Any thoughts on this?

Depends of the quality of your water really. I have always used tap water but it is very clean supply and doesn't taste of anything. I had a glass at a friends house recently and it tasted like dirt!

Basq wrote: »

- a decent room thermometer (finding these hard to find in B&M stores - as they're either ones geared at children's rooms, or they're outdoor thermometers) as need to find a room as a fairly optimum temp. Was thinking of under the stairs but possibly too warm, or the back-hall but possibly too cold!

I've never used a room thermometer or a brew belt. If I'm not cold in a room then it's fine for fermentation. Obviously the temp can vary with the seasons but all this means for me is a change in the length of fermentation time. My actual biggest issues is finding a cold enough room after secondary fermentation in the keg. My beer is not chilled enough for some people's tastes. I don't mind though as it's mostly ale and I was going to loose my mind if I had to keep up the bottling:)

Basq

mordeith wrote: »

Depends of the quality of your water really. I have always used tap water but it is very clean supply and doesn't taste of anything. I had a glass at a friends house recently and it tasted like dirt!

Yeah, I've never gotten a taste off my water so it's probably fine.. but suppose I'd rather be safe than sorry. My first brew will probably come straight from tap so.

mordeith wrote: »

I've never used a room thermometer or a brew belt. If I'm not cold in a room then it's fine for fermentation. Obviously the temp can vary with the seasons but all this means for me is a change in the length of fermentation time. My actual biggest issues is finding a cold enough room after secondary fermentation in the keg. My beer is not chilled enough for some people's tastes. I don't mind though as it's mostly ale and I was going to loose my mind if I had to keep up the bottling:)

Yeah, as I mentioned - was initially thinking of under my stairs, as it's out of the way, but that's at the back of my sitting room which will have a stove (once the colder weather hits) on most evenings. So I reckon it'll probably vary in temps too much.

And the back hall is a bit colder and drafter as I've a PVC back door...

I've quite a warm house - terraced house between 2 other houses with a timber frame. So the thermometer will be more to try and keep on eye on temperature shifts.

What should be the ideal temp for secondary fermentation, or is it personal preference? My back hall could potentially be the best bet there.. it's cooler but not what I'd call too cold - maybe winter could be a different story.

mordeith

Basq wrote: »

What should be the ideal temp for secondary fermentation, or is it personal preference? My back hall could potentially be the best bet there.. it's cooler but not what I'd call too cold - maybe winter could be a different story.

I've usually left the keg in the kitchen in both summer and winter. Warmest room in both seasons with the heating on in Winter and off in summer. Just leave it for a day to get the fermentation started then shift to under the stairs where it's the coolest part of the house.

macnug

To be honest I'd say the 1kg of brewing sugar will give you a worse off flavour than the water will. It will probabily give you an apple flavour and make the beer very thin. I'd use a kg of DME instead, boil it for 10-15 min to sterilise then add it to the brew. In regards to temp, I'd always go for a colder room rather than a warmer one.

Basq

macnug wrote: »

To be honest I'd say the 1kg of brewing sugar will give you a worse off flavour than the water will. It will probabily give you an apple flavour and make the beer very thin. I'd use a kg of DME instead, boil it for 10-15 min to sterilise then add it to the brew. In regards to temp, I'd always go for a colder room rather than a warmer one.

Interesting!

The beer kit does recommend either 1kg of brewing sugar, or 1kg of the beer enhancer (see step #5 below):



So I obviously get the brewing sugar free.. so is it worth skipping that entirely and using DME? There also seems to be a Light and Dark DME - recommendations?

mordeith

If it's your first brew then just use the sugar. Getting your process right is the main thing when starting out. No need to complicate it. You'll have a perfectly drinkable beer using sugar.

Lovely Bloke

mordeith wrote: »

If it's your first brew then just use the sugar. Getting your process right is the main thing when starting out. No need to complicate it. You'll have a perfectly drinkable beer using sugar.

I disagree with this a bit, there's no point in getting the process spot on if the beer is going to taste like gone off cider and discourage the new brewer from going again.

I'd definitely leave the brewing sugar (it's glucose, that's all) and go with some DME (get the light or extra light, you don't want to darken your Pale Ale). Use the brewing sugar for priming before bottling imo, you use less and it won't impart it's off flavours.

The "Brew Enhancer" is actually DME itself, but using a light DME will give a bit more body and flavour imo.

Don't worry too much about your fermentation temps, you'll almost certainly be using SafAle US05 Yeast or a variant of it, which is a pretty robust yeast really, just make sure you aren't over 20c, 22 at a push - ideally something like 17/18c should see you right.

One tip with the yeast is to make a couple of hundred mls of wort before you start the brew process (water + dme/brewing sugar boiled for 10 minutes and allowed to cool back to room temp), put the yeast packet into this about a half hour before you need to put it in your brew - this enables the yeast to get a bit of a head start, and you can see that it's actually taking off.

On to the water. Where do you live? Most Irish water is treated with chlorine, which can turn to chloramines and off flavours, you might even be so used to the flavour that you no longer even taste it yourself at home. Best advice is to use half a campden tablet before brewing (leaving a bucket of water out overnight is risky for kit brewing imo as you are never boiling the full volume of water).

The Coopers bottles are screw cap afaik, stick with them for your first brew.

Sterilize, sterilize, sterilize. Sterilize your fermenter, sterilize your equipment, sterilize your bottle caps and bottles, sterilize everything.

Welcome to brewing.

macnug

Basq wrote:

The beer kit does recommend either 1kg of brewing sugar, or 1kg of the beer enhancer (see step #5 below):

I never understood this tbh, why do some beer kit makers recommend sugar when they know its an inferior product? I made my first brew as per instructions as well and it nearly put me off homebrewing for life, found it pretty undrinkable but everybodys taste buds are different. Luckily I found extract and all grain brewing before giving up.

As far as I remember the brew enhancer is a mix of DME, sugar and maltodextrin as would be better than using sugar alone.

Basq

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

I disagree with this a bit, there's no point in getting the process spot on if the beer is going to taste like gone off cider and discourage the new brewer from going again.

I'd definitely leave the brewing sugar (it's glucose, that's all) and go with some DME (get the light or extra light, you don't want to darken your Pale Ale). Use the brewing sugar for priming before bottling imo, you use less and it won't impart it's off flavours.

The "Brew Enhancer" is actually DME itself, but using a light DME will give a bit more body and flavour imo.

Yeah.. I'm leaning towards using some sort of DME the more I look at it. Read a few great tutorials over at Beoir.org yesterday and they seemed to push it also.

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

Don't worry too much about your fermentation temps, you'll almost certainly be using SafAle US05 Yeast or a variant of it, which is a pretty robust yeast really, just make sure you aren't over 20c, 22 at a push - ideally something like 17/18c should see you right.

I think I've been focusing on trying to find somewhere that'll stay stable in the highest temps 22c - 25c.. but the more I read, it seems to indicate too warm is far worse ("funky flavours" has been the term I've seen thrown around) than cold.

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

One tip with the yeast is to make a couple of hundred mls of wort before you start the brew process (water + dme/brewing sugar boiled for 10 minutes and allowed to cool back to room temp), put the yeast packet into this about a half hour before you need to put it in your brew - this enables the yeast to get a bit of a head start, and you can see that it's actually taking off.

Good tip.. I've seen a bit of a discussion as to whether to stir or not after you sprinkle the yeast in the top.. but not seen this mentioned! Will give this a shot.

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

On to the water. Where do you live? Most Irish water is treated with chlorine, which can turn to chloramines and off flavours, you might even be so used to the flavour that you no longer even taste it yourself at home. Best advice is to use half a campden tablet before brewing (leaving a bucket of water out overnight is risky for kit brewing imo as you are never boiling the full volume of water).

Live in Sligo.. have never noticed an off taste but you could be right to be honest.

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

The Coopers bottles are screw cap afaik, stick with them for your first brew.

Yeah, seen a few vids alright showing that.. but good to know. Also brown thankfully.

macnug wrote: »

I never understood this tbh, why do some beer kit makers recommend sugar when they know its an inferior product? I made my first brew as per instructions as well and it nearly put me off homebrewing for life, found it pretty undrinkable but everybodys taste buds are different. Luckily I found extract and all grain brewing before giving up.

As far as I remember the brew enhancer is a mix of DME, sugar and maltodextrin as would be better than using sugar alone.

Cool - yep, definitely will avoid the sugar.

irish_goat

Definitely use the DME, it will give a much better finished product.

The Coopers bottles aren't great long term and they don't look as good either. You don't need a bottle capper for them though, they just have screw on lids.
I'd try and start collecting brown 500ml bottles and get yourself a capper. A good practice to get into is to wash out any bottles you drink as soon as possible. I'd also not bother getting a bottle brush, any bottles needing scrubbed just get a good soak in bleachy water or get chucked in the recycling.

22c is far too warm, aim for 18-20c. Remember that when it is fermenting the yeast will be producing heat so the fermenter will be warmer than the room tempearture. One of the main causes of off flavours in homebrew is fermenting too hot so try it keep it low.

Basq

irish_goat wrote: »

22c is far too warm, aim for 18-20c. Remember that when it is fermenting the yeast will be producing heat so the fermenter will be warmer than the room tempearture. One of the main causes of off flavours in homebrew is fermenting too hot so try it keep it low.

Have a Nest thermostat in my sitting room.. and even with no heating on, it's rarely going below 22c - 23c.

Though at the minute, I'm getting a reading of 20.5 from it - but it's quite a cold and wet day here.

I think I do need to suss out a ideal place for it alright.. I'm thinking the back hall as there's a gap under my gas boiler but it is next to the back door, which is PVC, so I'm definitely worried about it being a bit cold in the winter months.

irish_goat

Winter in Ireland is fine. You can wrap a duvet round the fermenter and it'll tick over fine.

Basq

Oh, and two more questions, with regards bottling:

1. Any thoughts on priming the bottle with regards carbonation drops vs sugar? Carbonation drops seem to be recommended due to their consistency (i.e an equal amount of carbonation in each bottle vs using a teaspoon of sugar), but that consistency comes with an added cost versus sugar.

2. Worth investing in a bottling wand? Presumably to limit air the beer is exposed to.

Lovely Bloke

Get a bottling wand and a second Fermenter if possible, and batch prime; boil Xgrams of sugar in about 300ml of water, put it in the bottom of the second (sterilized) bucket and move the finished beer onto it (with as few bubbles as possible!), then bottle from there, using the bottling wand. some people do this with DME too, but use more DME than sugar.

Or else use one and a half carb drops per bottle, but getting them halved is a shítty job.

UnknownSpecies

1. I'd also advise batch priming if you can manage it. It will allow you to dial in proper levels of carbonation much easier.

2. I couldn't imagine bottling without a wand. Makes life so much easier. Fill to the top and pull it out, the space that was occupied by the wand has now given you the perfect level of fill. Another tip is to squeeze the PET bottle after filling, until the level comes the whole way up, then screw your cap on. As the beer carbonates, the bottle will return to its original shape. This helps you to keep oxygen out of the bottle and it also gives you an indication of how well carbonated the bottle is. (hope I made sense there)

Just a word on fermentation temps. In my opinion, it's the most important factor in producing a tasty brew (good sanitation is a given of course). 18ºC should be your goal for at least 4-5 days. Make every effort to keep it low for those first few days. This is when the bulk of fermentation happens and where the bulk of off flavours will be produced if the temperature is too high. Look up swamp coolers for a simple way to keep temps down.

Good luck and make sure to report back!

BeardySi

A water bath is a cheap and easy way to maintain a stable temp. Float your fermenter in a container of water with an aquarium heater in it. I find large builders' trugs are good and a 100w heater will only set you back a few quid on amazon (I just had one arrive today that I got for about £10). Leave the whole shebang somewhere a bit cooler than you want (garage, back room, utility room) and set the heater to the desidred temp. Works well except in the heat of summer when the ambient can be too high - that's the time to brew a saison!

Basq

OK.. so I've these in my next order..



Anything else? Planning on using that second fermenter as a batch primer so I've getting the tap and bottle wand included with it.

In other news - received my starter kit today - but the Oxi P15 never arrived with it! Box even indicated "No Oxy" on the top but no e-mail or letter as to why it wasn't included.

Sent an e-mail to Ian about it but still waiting to hear back.

BeardySi

Home made sanitiser:
http://beerliever.com/bleach-no-rinse-sanitiser-home-brewing-beer/

Basq

Treadhead wrote: »

Home made sanitiser:
http://beerliever.com/bleach-no-rinse-sanitiser-home-brewing-beer/

Thanks for that.. though have heard great things about the likes of Starsan / P15 from loads of people, so wanted to try it. Don't know if I like the idea of messing with bleach plus a small amount of that Starsan / P15 will last an absolute age.

Though Ian from Mottly Brew just got back to me saying he's not allowed send P15 via courier anymore! So might need to source an alternative.

Lovely Bloke

did you order from Mottley? Was he cheaper than HBC, HBW and GEB?

Basq

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

did you order from Mottley? Was he cheaper than HBC, HBW and GEB?

I ordered the Starter Kit above from him.. don't know if he was necessarily cheaper to be honest.

I did like that the extract from him was a Pale Ale, as opposed to lagers which seem to come with a lot of starter kits so that probably swayed me.

Not sure if I'd use then again as the lack of communication was irritating.. waiting a week only to be told after emailing that he was waiting on two products, and then still ended up a product short. He was apologetic but still not massively impressed.

Probably do another order for DME, Starsan, spare fermenter with bottle wand and campden tablets elsewhere at weekend.

EDIT: This one from HBC was probably better as it came with a spare fermenter for priming.. although no beer kit or bottles with it. Don't know of a starter pack that would have included everything I wanted anyways, but bottles were definitely a plus!

Lovely Bloke

Any "lagers" in a starter brew kit are actually pale ales too fyi, you need a fridge to make a lager, as the yeast works at much lower temps than room temp would even get near.

as low as 12-14 degrees

so what really get is a pale ale kit.

Basq

OK - put in another order at GEB this evening:

- Starsan
- Bottling Wand
- Campden Tablets
- 1kg x Light DME

Opted against a second fermenter.. might try bottle priming my first batch.. as don't have a whole lot of room for a second barrel - need to clean out space under stairs first.

But plan is to using Campden in water and DME instead of Brewing Sugar.

Getting ahead of myself but granulated sugar OK for priming? Level teaspoon per 500ml bottle do?

Lovely Bloke

The only time I bottle primed I used carb drops. But that sounds about right.

Basq

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

The only time I bottle primed I used carb drops. But that sounds about right.

Yeah, had second thoughts about carb drops..

.. so asked GetErBrewed about adding them to my existing order and they said order them and click for free collection, and then add my order number to the comments and they'll include them with the rest.

That's customer service I like.

Carawaystick

Basq wrote: »

Opted against a second fermenter.. might try bottle priming my first batch.. as don't have a whole lot of room for a second barrel - need to clean out space under stairs first.

My fermenter fits inside my bottling bucket, as that's wider. I only need the bucket for priming and bottling.

Basq

Carawaystick wrote: »

My fermenter fits inside my bottling bucket, as that's wider. I only need the bucket for priming and bottling.

How big is each? e.g 33L fermenter, 50L bottling bucket?

irish_goat

I have a 25 litre Youngs fermenter (like this one) that fits into one of these.

You can get away with batch priming in the primary fermenter but there's a slight risk you'll rouse up some of the yeast/sediment at the bottom of the fermenter.

Carawaystick

Basq wrote: »

How big is each? e.g 33L fermenter, 50L bottling bucket?

25l fermenter, 33l bottling bucket. The Bucket is about 2" wider than the fermemter, and a good bit shorter too.

Basq

Going to take an hour or two tomorrow and get this brew going..

Two last questions which I've seen mixed opinions on:

1. Boil 1kg of DME in 3 litres of water and throw that into the fermenter on top of the liquid malt extract? Or just throw it in on top of liquid malt extract mixed with 3 litres of water in fermenter? I've seen both methods used.. is there a preference or does it matter?

2. Should I rehydrate the yeast or just sprinkle in on top of the wort? Like I mentioned, have seen both methods used online.

Basq

Oh, and initially, do I leave the lid slightly off the fermenter or seal it completely from the start?

Ronan|Raven

Basq wrote: »

Going to take an hour or two tomorrow and get this brew going..

Two last questions which I've seen mixed opinions on:

1. Boil 1kg of DME in 3 litres of water and throw that into the fermenter on top of the liquid malt extract? Or just throw it in on top of liquid malt extract mixed with 3 litres of water in fermenter? I've seen both methods used.. is there a preference or does it matter?

2. Should I rehydrate the yeast or just sprinkle in on top of the wort? Like I mentioned, have seen both methods used online.

My answers which would not reflect everyone's views but..

1: I just dump put in the contents of the can from ones kit. Pour in some boiling water. mix and then add in the DME slowly and keep stirring and add more boiling water if needed.

2: I would just sprinkle it in for the moment assuming it is standard kit yeast.


and to your other question you can seal it all up and leave it.

Basq

OK, that went pretty well considering..



Only two issues were around airlock.. the contents (water) of the airlock ended up emptying into the fermenter (twice!) while I was moving it from my kitchen (where I was preparing it) to under the stairs (fermenting location) - should have maybe used cheap vodka instead!

Temps in under the stairs at the minute around 20C, and wort in fermenter reading a solid 20C - 22C at the minute. Was thinking under the stairs was a better location as back-hall can get a lot of direct sunlight, darker-and-hopefully more stable temps in there.

Only other issue was I'd no idea how much water to put in airlock... filled to about half way looks like more as there could be a trapped air-bubble in there.



Hopefully OK though.

Now have backdoor open to try and get the funky wiff out!

Ronan|Raven

Well done on your first brew.

1: I have had that happen the odd time, nothing bad ever came of it. Cheap vodka gets over these issues. Just try to remember to remove the airlock when moving the FV.

2: Fill airlock to half way, it looks fine, dont stress about it.

3: resist temptation to lift the lid to see whats going on! Leave it shut.. !

Basq

Would have liked to have seen from activity from the airlock by now (18 hours later) but nothing yet!

If there's none this evening, I'll start to worry.

Lovely Bloke

18 hours is a long time, but nothing drastic yet.

Also, no activity in the airlock may signify nothing more than a poorly sealed lid or bung, if you can see a Krausen forming in the bucket, that's a better indication of activity - there'll be a layer of CO2 sitting over the fermenting beer too, which helps as a barrier against airborne nasties.

Have you got a hydrometer and trial jar? The absolute best way to check for active fermentation is to take gravity readings.

Basq

Lovely Bloke wrote: »

18 hours is a long time, but nothing drastic yet.

Also, no activity in the airlock may signify nothing more than a poorly sealed lid or bung, if you can see a Krausen forming in the bucket, that's a better indication of activity - there'll be a layer of CO2 sitting over the fermenting beer too, which helps as a barrier against airborne nasties.

Have you got a hydrometer and trial jar? The absolute best way to check for active fermentation is to take gravity readings.

Yeah, want to avoid open the fermenter so i'll give it til this evening and take another reading. Had a 1.040 OG anyways.

Basq

OK. Took off airlock, resealed it and look like we're in business. Idiot I am though I pushed down on the fermenter lid while the airlock was out and most definitely sucked some air in there! :mad: Hoping any infection staves off.

mordeith

Basq wrote: »

Yeah, want to avoid open the fermenter so i'll give it til this evening and take another reading. Had a 1.040 OG anyways.

Don't bother talking a reading for a week or so. As long as you have frothing it's working

Basq

mordeith wrote: »

Don't bother talking a reading for a week or so. As long as you have frothing it's working

Happier now I've got action in the airlock.. but I am worried that my fermenter just inhaled a load of external air!

Bogwoppit

Basq wrote: »

Happier now I've got action in the airlock.. but I am worried that my fermenter just inhaled a load of external air!

Don't worry about it, that regularly happens with brews and you'd have to be pretty unlucky for it to have an efffect.

Basq

Bogwoppit wrote: »

Don't worry about it, that regularly happens with brews and you'd have to be pretty unlucky for it to have an efffect.

Thanks man... hopefully you're right!

BeardySi

Close the door. Walk away and leave it alone for at least two weeks. Resist the urge to poke, prod or take gravity readings every few hours.

Basq

Treadhead wrote: »

Close the door. Walk away and leave it alone for at least two weeks. Resist the urge to poke, prod or take gravity readings every few hours.

Yeah, I find the noise of the bubbling airlock quite relaxing.. but the slight smell of cheap vodka escaping from the airlock not so much!

Haven't taking a gravity reading since pitching and unlikely to until next weekend I'd say.

Timeline is roughly 2 - 3 weeks in fermenter (expecting readings to stabilize after 2 weeks surely) and then another 2 - 3 weeks in bottles.

Basq

Just a heads-up... took a reading last night after 7 days and reading about 1.015. Will keep it in primary for another 10 - 14 days and then bottle.

Aiming to get another brew going - recommendations on a Christmas Ale here would be appreciated - as soon as these are bottled.

VinylJunkie

Cheers for this thread Basq, got my juices flowing again!

Basq

Bottled this on Sunday night... took a final gravity reading - looks like it ended up at just under 4% ABV... was gonna leave it another week or so, but I'll leave it carbonating for probably 3 weeks minimum.

It's definitely tart enough without any carbonation.. not quite as tart as say a session IPA but not far off.
Popped 1 x Munton Carbonation Drop in per 500ml... Carb Drops packaging said 2 drops per 500ml but didn't want it too gassy either. Recommendations online seem to recommendation 1 - 1.5 drops so opted for 1.

Will let you know how it works out in a few weeks.

PS - in the meantime, started my Christmas brew!