Is this the management companies responsibility?

Zenify

I had a leak in my apartment coming from the roof beside the window. I informed the management company and they sent out someone to look at it.

The guy looking at it showed me the problem after he inspected it for a while. The outside seal between the brick work and window frame was peeling off.

The management company now want me to pay for this... saying windows are the responsibility of the owner as agreed under the lease. and told me I must pay them 550 to get this fixed.

does this seem right to you???

nhunter100

Zenify wrote:

does this seem right to you???

If it's in the lease and you signed agreeing to it, right/wrong doesn't come into it.

Michael D Not Higgins

Windows are not considered part of the common areas by the MUD Act and are outside the remit of the OMC. Now if it's just the seal it would be your responsibility, otherwise if there's a problem to fix in the roof or brickwork itself then that would be the OMC's job.

Zenify

nhunter100 wrote: »

[quote=Zen


If it's in the lease and you signed agreeing to it, right/wrong doesn't come into it.

I understand the principles of a contract, that was not my question.

Something that had to be fixed externally didn't seem like my responsibility but another poster has answered my question.

nhunter100

Zenify wrote:

I understand the principles of a contract, that was not my question.

You asked was it fair.

Marcusm

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

Windows are not considered part of the common areas by the MUD Act and are outside the remit of the OMC. Now if it's just the seal it would be your responsibility, otherwise if there's a problem to fix in the roof or brickwork itself then that would be the OMC's job.

That would be surprising; leases I have reviewed generally make the leaseholder responsible for the replacement of glass but the frame of the window remains the property and responsibility of the OMC/freeholder. From a logic perspective, this is to ensure that they are maintained and not frivolously changed to a discordant style.

Michael D Not Higgins

Marcusm wrote: »

That would be surprising; leases I have reviewed generally make the leaseholder responsible for the replacement of glass but the frame of the window remains the property and responsibility of the OMC/freeholder. From a logic perspective, this is to ensure that they are maintained and not frivolously changed to a discordant style.

The MUD Act makes reference to walls, roofs, etc. but does not mention windows. Whether an individual lease also takes the window frames into account is up to the individual management company.

I agree that there could be a majority of leases that contain clauses to cover window frames (I'm not that well versed on them to be honest) in order to maintain the frames look and upkeep. I'm not familiar with the OP's lease but if the agents are saying it's not within the OMC's remit and the MUD Act also backs this up, it's time to dig up the lease to clarify it.

Michael D Not Higgins

nhunter100 wrote: »

You asked was it fair.

The OP asked if it seemed right. That can be interpreted as meaning correct rather than fair. I think we can leave it at that.

Zenify

I'm actually dealing with this for a family member and have never seen the lease so I will go and have a look at it in detail soon.

Thanks for all the help so far.

Zenify

copy of email I just sent this morning. I am just back and have actually just started looking at lease 20 min ago and just sent email.

I'm pretty confused as to me it's pretty straight forward that management company have responsibility.

email below:

Hi ***

Sorry about delay I was away and had to look at the lease before responding. I'm just home and having a quick scan through it now.

Could you please reference (number) the parts of the lease you are referring to?

As I said I have just opened it this morning and I haven't looked properly through it so I could be wrong... I see on 2.5 it says "Management Company has responsibility, including exterior".

2.27 "The Lessee shall be responsible for all internal... breakage of glass in the windows and any damage to internal fixtures".

As I said I have just opened it and these are on the first pages. Am I looking at the correct lease? or is there more further through it?

Regards

****

Glass fused light

Who was that email to the family member or to the OMC?

Don't make work for yourself if you are communicating with the OMC, ask them to give you the 'document' (it will be the lease but could be something else) that supports their position and request that they specify what section(s) they are relying on.
You look for them to prove their position so that they are explaining exactly why the OMC is not responsible, not you trying to it figure out.

Ms Doubtfire1

General
For each apartment, flat or house being rented as a separate unit, the landlord must ensure that the rental property is in a proper state of structural repair. The Regulations require the landlord to maintain the property in a sound state, inside and out. They specify that roofs, roofing tiles, slates, windows, floors, ceilings, walls, stairs, doors, skirting boards, fascias, tiles on any floor, ceiling and wall, gutters, down pipes, fittings, furnishings, gardens and common areas must be maintained in good condition and repair. They must not be defective due to dampness or otherwise.

Citizen info.Under minimum standard, LL responsibility

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html

AND

Your main legal rights and responsibilities as a private tenant derive from landlord and tenant law as well as from any lease or tenancy agreement between you and your landlord.

The main legislation governing these rights and obligations is contained in the Landlord and Tenant Acts 1967 to 1994, the Residential Tenancies Act 2004 and the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act 2015. However, if you are renting a room in your landlord's home you are not covered by landlord and tenant legislation (though you are covered if you rent a self-contained flat in your landlord’s home). Read more in our document on sharing accommodation with your landlord.

Leases or other tenancy agreements cannot take away from your rights under the legislation, but you and your landlord can agree on matters that are not dealt with in it.- quote end.

The windows are clearly dealt with in Legislation. You can't sign your rights away

jd

Ms Doubtfire1 wrote: »

General
For each apartment, flat or house being rented as a separate unit, the landlord must ensure that the rental property is in a proper state of structural repair. The Regulations require the landlord to maintain the property in a sound state, ..

The windows are clearly dealt with in Legislation. You can't sign your rights away

This is not a landlord - tenant situation.

blacklilly

jd wrote: »

This is not a landlord - tenant situation.

Yes exactly, wrong legislation being quoted by that poster.

Zenify

I got them to do the work and send me their side (thanks Glass fused light). The document I was looking at was not the official lease. What they sent me is stating what part of the apartment I own and not who has responsibility for repair. Same thing I guess anyway.

it states:

"All that the apartment known or intended to be known as (my address) on the estate including the surfaces of the floors and ceilings of the apartment together with any attic space therein but exceeding the roof and the external walls of the apartment (other than the windows and the glass therein and the interior faces of the external walls) all structural parts of the structural walls within the apartment...."

The OMC's argument is that it mentions "other than the windows". No mention of the seal between the brick and window frame.

Only other thing related in lease is "Not decorate the exterior or alter the external appearance of any of the buildings on the premises without prior consent in writing of the Lessor."

I'm guessing I now have to pay to fix this.

Glass fused light

Zenify wrote: »

I got them to do the work and send me their side (thanks Glass fused light). The document I was looking at was not the official lease. What they sent me is stating what part of the apartment I own and not who has responsibility for repair. Same thing I guess anyway.

it states:

"All that the apartment known or intended to be known as (my address) on the estate including the surfaces of the floors and ceilings of the apartment together with any attic space therein but exceeding the roof and the external walls of the apartment (other than the windows and the glass therein and the interior faces of the external walls) all structural parts of the structural walls within the apartment...."

The OMC's argument is that it mentions "other than the windows". No mention of the seal between the brick and window frame.

Only other thing related in lease is "Not decorate the exterior or alter the external appearance of any of the buildings on the premises without prior consent in writing of the Lessor."

I'm guessing I now have to pay to fix this.

Zenify in my non-builder non-legal opinion the seal is part of the window as it would not be there if there was no window. The second part looks to covers any changes you make to the windows you 'own'.