Civil Service vs Public Sector vs Private Sector - Which one is better?

TestLink

I have an offer for a civil service job - ICT. I would like to know which one is better than the other when comparing Civil Service vs Public Sector vs Private Sector

1. Pension
2. Job Security
3. Work Stress
4. Flexibility
5. Annual leave

- Pros and Cons?

Dodge

Civil Service is part of the wider public sector. Do you mean private sector?

There's no correct answer for you without knowing what you want from a job. Essentially the Civil Service can offer unrivaled job security and plenty of flexibility (in terms of family, education etc) but you won't get rich. Private sector is riskier, but the financial rewards far outstrip anything the public service can offer (definitely so for a IT position)

You can find interesting, challenging work in both (as you can boring, mundane work)

C.O.Y.B.I.B

ITguru wrote: »

I have an offer for a civil service job - ICT. I would like to know which one is better than the other when comparing Civil Service vs Public Sector vs Private Sector

1. Pension
2. Job Security
3. Work Stress
4. Flexibility
5. Annual leave

- Pros and Cons?

In my experience , public service (HSE,Hospitals, County Councils) tends to pay better than civil service in like for like jobs .
Public sector in general tend to be less stressful and often more suited to family life , depending what level you are at in your career .
In private sector there is an element of needing to be seen to work hard and be ambitious , which inst a necessity in the public sector. Annual leave is better in the public sector as are hours and flexibility , but you may be giving up 20% salary dependant on your area of expertise.

Zipppy

Dodge wrote: »

Civil Service is part of the wider public sector. Do you mean private sector?

There's no correct answer for you without knowing what you want from a job. Essentially the Civil Service can offer unrivaled job security and plenty of flexibility (in terms of family, education etc) but you won't get rich. Private sector is riskier, but the financial rewards far outstrip anything the public service can offer (definitely so for a IT position)

You can find interesting, challenging work in both (as you can boring, mundane work)

Perfect answer to your query!

It all depends on your own needs in life...

I'm a happy Public Servant availing of terms and conditions available there..
My daughter on the other hand thinks the PS is boring and says she would only consider a role there when 'its time to have babies' (which I hope si a long way off...)

Nocrac

I've had a really interesting and varied career in the civil service. What I like about it is the opportunity to influence policy and,the potential for lateral and upward mobility. You would be very unlikely to have the same role for more than four or five years. One Department could not be compared with another. Each has its own culture.

I also feel I am well paid compared to what I could command in the private sector.

Sure family friendly policies and Flexi-time are all great but these should never be reasons for joining the service.

Also, i see a lot of people who are attracted to the idea of a low stress job only crack with the pressure they are under when they get in. It really annoys me when I see the civil service recommended as low stress. The civil service is changing and expectations are high in most Departments.

I've never worked in the public sector (HSE, local authorities) but from what I've heard it is better paid with better conditionsbut also is in need of serious reform.

Yenwod

Dodge wrote: »

Civil Service is part of the wider public sector. Do you mean private sector?

There's no correct answer for you without knowing what you want from a job. Essentially the Civil Service can offer unrivaled job security and plenty of flexibility (in terms of family, education etc) but you won't get rich. Private sector is riskier, but the financial rewards far outstrip anything the public service can offer (definitely so for a IT position)

You can find interesting, challenging work in both (as you can boring, mundane work)

Depending on the department and/or section, flexibility in the civil service is not what it used to be. They still quote work/life balance as a selling point but you could end up somewhere where that simply isn't true...on the other hand some people have great flexibility so it's the luck of the draw. It's just no longer a guarantee.

Having worked in both private sector and civil service, I agree with all the rest of this

planstan

Yenwod wrote: »

Depending on the department and/or section, flexibility in the civil service is not what it used to be. They still quote work/life balance as a selling point but you could end up somewhere where that simply isn't true...on the other hand some people have great flexibility so it's the luck of the draw. It's just no longer a guarantee.

Very true and something to bear in mind. Some have flexi time, some don't. Flexi time isn't the sole preserve of the public sector either, private sector companies offer it too.
The vaunted family friendly options such as part time or shorter working year are completely at the discretion of management. Do not assume you'll be able to avail of them. I know plenty who've been refused.
I also got a lot more annual leave in the private sector.

Dodge

On flexibility I was talking more about career progression. You can move laterally which isn't something that the private sector can do easily

For IT professionals, refund of fees and allowing time off for study etc isn't something guaranteed in the private sector

Day to day flexibility is down to management but in general the PS is better there than the private sector.

Stealthfins

You've more job and financial security in the public sector rather than the private sector.

Jobs with security are like gold dust these days.

You'll also get better sick leave and more holidays.

Flexitime is handy too.

gazzer

Bear in mind that within the Civil Service (depending on the Department you are in) it can be extremely hard to move divisions. I work with people who have been working in the same area for 8 years. This is despite the fact that a mobility policy is in place.

ArthurG

Stealthfins wrote: »

You've more job and financial security in the public sector rather than the private sector.

Jobs with security are like gold dust these days.

You'll also get better sick leave and more holidays.

Flexitime is handy too.

Eh?.

Yenwod

Dodge wrote: »

On flexibility I was talking more about career progression. You can move laterally which isn't something that the private sector can do easily

gazzer wrote: »

Bear in mind that within the Civil Service (depending on the Department you are in) it can be extremely hard to move divisions. I work with people who have been working in the same area for 8 years. This is despite the fact that a mobility policy is in place.

Again, thinking that all comes down to departments. Some are very progressive - some are still back in the dark days of never letting staff progress and doing back handed deals of blocking moves, even on promotion. I am in one such department, incredibly frustrating.

Nody

Mod:
Let's drop the civil service bashing etc and focus on answering OPs question

Mac0783

Hi,

Sorry to drag up an old thread, I'm currently working in Civil Service but there is a position that would be a promotion if I got it being advertised in a County Council, which I'm told is the Public service.

Is there any real difference between the Public and Civil Service? if I did get the job after my two years are done would I be able to transfer back to the civil service?

I called PAS but they were no help, did some googling and I'm more confused than ever. Really I'm wondering about pensions and transfer ability?


thanks

Zipppy

Mac0783 wrote:

Is there any real difference between the Public and Civil Service? if I did get the job after my two years are done would I be able to transfer back to the civil service?

Transfer back.. no...you would need to apply as an external candidate for any position in Civil service.
Transfer your pension..generally yes.
Terms and conditions generally similar in Civil service and local authorities..

billyhead

Zipppy wrote: »

Transfer back.. no...you would need to apply as an external candidate for any position in Civil service.
Transfer your pension..generally yes.
Terms and conditions generally similar in Civil service and local authorities..

What about security of tenure. Would a job in the LA be less secure then the CS?

bobbysands81

Mac0783 wrote: »

Hi,

Sorry to drag up an old thread, I'm currently working in Civil Service but there is a position that would be a promotion if I got it being advertised in a County Council, which I'm told is the Public service.

Is there any real difference between the Public and Civil Service? if I did get the job after my two years are done would I be able to transfer back to the civil service?

I called PAS but they were no help, did some googling and I'm more confused than ever. Really I'm wondering about pensions and transfer ability?


thanks

You could consider applying for career break in current job and take up new role. You could make your mind up pretty soon which you think is better.

Job security in both is quite similar unless you've a contract for a specified amount of time.

Esel

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You could consider applying for career break in current job and take up new role.

Is that permitted now?

Zipppy

bobbysands81 wrote:

You could consider applying for career break in current job and take up new role. You could make your mind up pretty soon which you think is better.

You cannot take employment in public service whilst on a career break....
Can you imagine the mayhem if that was allowed?

Jawgap

Dodge wrote: »

Civil Service is part of the wider public sector. Do you mean private sector?

There's no correct answer for you without knowing what you want from a job. Essentially the Civil Service can offer unrivaled job security and plenty of flexibility (in terms of family, education etc) but you won't get rich. Private sector is riskier, but the financial rewards far outstrip anything the public service can offer (definitely so for a IT position)

You can find interesting, challenging work in both (as you can boring, mundane work)

This, in a nutshell.

I stayed in the PS until my kids were safely in college then hopped back to the private sector.

Quite simply, in my role (a professional services one) the private sector offered a comparable salary to my PS one, but the rest of the remuneration package was just something the PS couldn't compete with.

I'd also add that if you have any decent ability, if your motivated and your ambitious - and willing to play the 'game' - you can quickly get to a position of significant responsibility in the PS that would be impossible to achieve in the private sector - put it this way, when I left the PS I was responsible for overseeing pretty much the regulation of an entire industrial sector, now I work for individual firms within that sector, but as I suggested earlier, there's more money in being a poacher than a gamekeeper.

My advice to anyone considering it, especially if they are in the early part of the career, is to join the PS, use the massive educational opportunities to boost your quals, work hard, don't be afraid to transfer to more responsible assignments (and beware putting too many roots down that tie you geographically and prevent you moving), understand the macro-politics of the wider organisation and focus on those departments that hold the whip hand (Finance and Ag).

Jawgap

bobbysands81 wrote: »

You could consider applying for career break in current job and take up new role. You could make your mind up pretty soon which you think is better.

Job security in both is quite similar unless you've a contract for a specified amount of time.

You can't work in Ireland while on a career break - you can set up a business, go into education, help raise the family etc but taking a break to go work somewhere else in the country would get you quickly recalled.

There may well be some instances of people doing it but you'd never be able to take a break from one PS position to take up another.

PCX

I think this is still the policy that applies. You can take a career break and work but only in the private sector. I think they allow it as they wanted to reduce the public sector pay bill.

Terms of the Scheme

6. A career break shall consist of special leave without pay for a period of:
(a) not less than six months and not more than five years for the following reasons
 Family reasons
 Other domestic reasons
 Travel
 Educational purposes (educational purposes may include training courses with a practical training element for which there is a nominal payment/grant made to the student)

(b) not less than six months and not more than three years for the purpose of taking up employment in the private sector or becoming self-employed.

AndrewJRenko

Civil servants are barred from being politically active, even writing a letter to the papers is not permitted. This doesn't apply to public servants.

beauf

Jawgap wrote: »

You can't work in Ireland while on a career break - you can set up a business, go into education, help raise the family etc but taking a break to go work somewhere else in the country would get you quickly recalled.

There may well be some instances of people doing it but you'd never be able to take a break from one PS position to take up another.

Where I am in the PS you can take a Career break to take up another job. I don't think it matters if its Civil S or Public S. I don't think you'll get your exact old job back though. or at least its not guaranteed.

In our places there's a slow drift away to other sectors. Money is better (much better for some) in Private Sector and very little promotion because of embargo's, freezes etc. The pension is only useful if you end on a high salary and have full years service. For many they don't have the latter, so the pension isn't going to stop them leaving.

You'd only stay if the work/life balance suits you. Which is why most people joined it in the first place. If you want fast promotion, or to work on the latest tech, projects, you'd be in the private sector. If you want to get ahead by jumping jobs every 2 yrs you'd be in the private sector also.

Jawgap

beauf wrote: »

Where I am in the PS you can take a Career break to take up another job. I don't think it matters if its Civil S or Public S. I don't think you'll get your exact old job back though. or at least its not guaranteed.

In our places there's a slow drift away to other sectors. Money is better (much better for some) in Private Sector and very little promotion because of embargo's, freezes etc. The pension is only useful if you end on a high salary and have full years service. For many they don't have the latter, so the pension isn't going to stop them leaving.

You'd only stay if the work/life balance suits you. Which is why most people joined it in the first place. If you want fast promotion, or to work on the latest tech, projects, you'd be in the private sector. If you want to get ahead by jumping jobs every 2 yrs you'd be in the private sector also.

I know the place I was in through 2008/9 was so anxious to reduce headcount they basically scrapped the career break policy - anyone could apply for one and everyone who applied was getting approved whether it was to go travelling, raise a family, go back to fulltime education or - in the case of the bulk of our IT section - set up your own 'shop.'

I think, in my experience, you can progress reasonably quickly in the civil and public service (to AP level anyway) if you are willing to move around a lot and you build your qualifications. I think certainly in places like Ag, DFA, Finance, A-G's Office, you've also got to be willing to go abroad for a stint (at least 2 years).

But yes, you'll not be working on 'the bleeding edge' of technology if you are in the PS, and the bureaucracy can drive you mad!

Saying that, I enjoyed my few years there and think I used it well to enhance my professional development.

mel.b

beauf wrote: »

Where I am in the PS you can take a Career break to take up another job. I don't think it matters if its Civil S or Public S. I don't think you'll get your exact old job back though. or at least its not guaranteed.

Interesting. I'm PS as well (HSE) and you are not allowed to work at all when on a career break. From the Terms and conditions of employment (pg 36)...

During the career break an employee is not permitted to work for another employer within the Irish state. An employee who breaches this provision may have his or her employment terminated.

http://www.hse.ie/eng/staff/Resources/Terms_Conditions_of_Employment/Terms_and_Conditions_of_Employment_May_2009_.pdf

Zipppy

mel.b wrote:

Interesting. I'm PS as well (HSE) and you are not allowed to work at all when on a career break. From the Terms and conditions of employment (pg 36)...

I think that was changed and now you can take employment in the state but not in public sector.....
I'll try verify that...

TestLink

I have got an offer to join one of the departments in Dublin from ICT Infra Support panel. I am in my 40s and is working in a private ICT company doing Desktop Support now.. I am a slow learner and doesnt know much about latest tools and technologies used. Regarding salary it is almost in the same range. Stress wise the current role is not at all busy. Worry about what would happen if not able to perform well. Since this is first time I have an offer from Civil Service, dont know about the support from collegues and managers.

I am bit confused whether to quit my current cosy role and join Civil Service. Seeks advice from anyone with similar profile.

drunkmonkey

Sounds like the public service is for you if you haven't broken through in the private sector yet.

Saying that if you specialise in the private sector there's good pay, maybe a move from desktops to enterprise.