Hive Heating

frogone

Has anyone any experience installing Hive 2?

I have two heating zones (upstairs/downstairs) in my house plus the boiler. I called Bord Gais Energy today to get Hive 2 installed plus multizone. Initially they said I would have to pay for two thermostats @ E299 each! When I queried this they then said they don't offer multizone.

British Gas do (it's their product). Would anyone know if it's possible to install Hive 2 initially and add multizone later?

jamesd

Did you go any further with this?

air

Or you could just buy 2 of these with temperature sensors for about €30 delivered and no ongoing costs..
https://www.itead.cc/sonoff-th.html

DGOBS

Hive has no ongoing costs

air

DGOBS wrote: »

Hive has no ongoing costs

Great, it's still 30 times the price of the unit I posted which will achieve pretty much the same thing.

DGOBS

€900? (30x30?) €299 fully installed, but is certainly not the same product, controls both heating and dhw, has features like geolocation, options for multizone, , add has lots of add ons (and more on the way) 7 day callcentre back up and much more.

air

It's €10 for a SonOff TH + a temp sensor, €30 was for 2 plus postage.

Geolocation fairly superfluous for most people who have a regular schedule and / or a brain. Also privacy concerns with sharing your location with a 3rd party company / app.

Multizone - just buy another unit for €10 more.
As for lots of add ons, there's a whole range of SonOff products for other smart home functionality through the same app, lighting, environmental monitoring etc.
It's also MQTT compatible, supports scenes and the hardware is open source.

The 7 day call centre and hand holding is what you're paying for with a Hive.

DGOBS

We will agree to differ, I love geolocation, and think it's a very clever part of the software.
As for privacy, anyone with a smartphone has the same issue across multiple apps.

I am paying for a sophisticated product, with great support and installation.
And remember if this requires wiring to a gas appliance (i.e. replacing internal programmers) an RGI would be required to complete this aspect of the install as it would be considered gasworks.

I think SonOFF is a pretty simple and ugly looking device, that is essentially a switch without a user interface (other than the app) which also poses issues (when the app/phone/internet are out of service)

You get what you pay for, and for me, Hive has a dedicated Hub, Receiver Switch and Programmable Thermostat which works very well and suits my 'no brain' needs.

It's not comparing apples with apples to this device, I can buy a smartphone for €49, but it will never be an iPhone!

As for open source, I prefer the closed fully encrypted software that is being monitored and updated, as when choosing any of these products the need for security is paramount as someone can track your movements in/out of home for possible robbery etc.

air

I agree with you it's horses for courses.

However, to address a few of your points.
If you install the SonOff in place of a central heating timer as most people would then there's no need for an RGI.
The SonOff software is not open source, the hardware is so users are free to use the proprietary version or reflash with open software.

On geolocation, there's no reason they couldn't build it into their app if there was demand, it's a feature of the app and not the hardware. I've never even looked into it, it might have it already.

With regard to lack of internet, it will keep working as scheduled without internet access. Internet is only required to remotely change the settings or override the planned schedule.

With regard to the local user interface, you can always leave an existing timer wired in parallel with it so that it can be controlled locally, I did just this for a friend and it works well.

Finally on the aesthetics, who cares to be honest, it's a timer that can be put in a boiler room or whatever out of sight.

DGOBS

If the timer is integrated in the boiler (gas) yes you would need an RGI

Fine it will work as 'scheduled' but what if you want to turn it off or boost it on?

If you need a timer wired in parallel it defeats the purpose IMHO, and adds to the cheaper cost, Hive has timer and stat wireless and integrated

As for aesthetics, 'I for one care' its my house, I like to have nice things in it, and it's not just a timer, its a thermostat and timer, and therefore will not be hidden in the boiler room.

It's all to do with personal choice, I like high end digital products that give me all the features, looks good in my home and has support should it go wrong. Gina...its a case of you get what you pay for.

frogone

jamesd wrote: »

Did you go any further with this?

No, Bord Gais came out to my house to take a look but said to wait for the multizone offering as I had multiple zones. I'll take a look again when Bord Gais offer it, apparently they will in the future.

tweek84

I don't know if I should start a new thread on this or not but I am looking at upgrading my existing heating timer to a more modern timer, I will be zoning my house in too 4 zones I don't intend on using any thermostats, I would like something that I can access remotely via my smart phone of laptop. Anyone have any suggestion or have something similar installed? I think the hive is a bit of over kill for what I want as I really only need a 7 day timer that can control 4 contact/relays and be accessed via the net. I don't mind if I have to network the control (run a cat6 to my router)
Surely there is something like a more modern version of the Siemens rwb69 out there??

DGOBS

They now offer multi-zone

DGOBS

tweek84, you still need thermostats for each zone, if not you will loose out on energy efficiency and have no hear control over the zones once you turn them on. (you still control it all remotely, including the thermostats)

tweek84

DGOBS wrote: »

tweek84, you still need thermostats for each zone, if not you will loose out on energy efficiency and have no hear control over the zones once you turn them on. (you still control it all remotely, including the thermostats)

Sorry i ment i won't be using room stats, i will have pipe stats of course but i intend on hard wiring them, all my rads have trv's fitted at the moment. Because of the way my heating pipe work is set up the room stats won't really work for me and i couldn't be bothered with putting in wireless rad valves.

DGOBS

You still want room stats, pipe stats will only call to the boiler when pipework is at temp.

You want an interlock for the boiler:

timer - room stat - motorised valve (via aux-switch)

So when you call for heat in any zone via the timer, it signals the room stat to see if the area actually requires heat, if so opens the valve to that circuit, that when it opens it calls the boiler to send heat. (this is known as interlock)
When either the timer or the room stat is satisfied, the valve shuts and turns off the boiler.

The issue with only using TRV's is that even when all demand is satisfied and TRV's shut down, the boiler continues to fire, and will short cycle with nothing to fire to except the pipework, this is very inefficient and hard on the boiler

You said you were putting in 4 zones, interlock these, and use a few wireless room stats (just remove the TRVs in the room with the stat.

tweek84

DGOBS wrote: »

You still want room stats, pipe stats will only call to the boiler when pipework is at temp.

You want an interlock for the boiler:

timer - room stat - motorised valve (via aux-switch)

So when you call for heat in any zone via the timer, it signals the room stat to see if the area actually requires heat, if so opens the valve to that circuit, that when it opens it calls the boiler to send heat. (this is known as interlock)
When either the timer or the room stat is satisfied, the valve shuts and turns off the boiler.

The issue with only using TRV's is that even when all demand is satisfied and TRV's shut down, the boiler continues to fire, and will short cycle with nothing to fire to except the pipework, this is very inefficient and hard on the boiler

You said you were putting in 4 zones, interlock these, and use a few wireless room stats (just remove the TRVs in the room with the stat.

I don't want room stats tho , :Dif i use a room stat in 1 of the 4 zones i will have only a stat in controlling the heat to 4 rooms the house is split level and we don't use one zone often i only need 1 zone boosted before the kids arrive home then another boosted just before the kids go to bed and the other zone only gets used at weekends really or if the kids have exams. I probably should have been a bit clearer in my description I will be creating the zones using motorised or actuator valves but controlling them using a pipe stats. My house is well insulated and a blast of heat for 20 mins is more than enough to heat one of the zones.

DGOBS

Controlling them using pipe stats doesn't make any logic to me, as the pipes can be warm, but the area cold (or not to the temperature desired)

It's up to you, but for a) comfort, b) energy efficiency, you should fit a stat to each zone