Primary Education - Ireland vs UK

uma103

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]I am moving to Dublin form UK with my new job and will be calling over my family in few months. My daughter just started reception in UK and just want to ask if that how different Irish primary education system is as compare to UK ? Is Irish language is must in primary school ? is taught as a language or medium of education (like basic science, maths ect) is also in Irish ?[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]In UK we get school rating like outstanding , good , required improvements . Is it similar is Ireland ? also how much the books can cost for a year as kids get free books and meals (free meals for all till year 3) here in UK .[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Thank you . [/font]

byhookorbycrook

Your biggest issue will be to find a school with space. Irish is compulsory in primary but only schools known as Gaelscoileanna teach through the medium of Irish. No free books here, I'm afraid and unless the school is designated as a DEIS (disadvantaged status) no free food either.And because primary schools here are so starved of funding, you can probably look forward to school fund raisers pretty often and/or a voluntary contribution. The vast majority of schools here are faith based, bar multi-denominational schools such as those run by the patron bodies Educate Together/Community National Schools or some Gaelscoileanna. Demand for these three types of school is usually huge.

uma103

How much books cost over a year ? Are they like reading books and maths , science workbooks?

Thanks

byhookorbycrook

Some schools have rental books but in the younger classes many are workbooks which the child writes in, so cannot be reused. It's impossible to say, as it varies from school to school, but I'd say for younger classes you would be looking at €100 on average, which may include photocopying, school insurance and art supplies or not.

uma103

Is it 100 a year or month ? And what is school insurance?

Kind Regards

byhookorbycrook

€100 for the year in infants (5/6 year olds) but costs may be higher as the child progresses through the school if there isn't a rental scheme in place. There has been no meaningful funding for such schemes so it's mainly up to the school itself to fundraise to put one in place.

Many schools have insurance that covers the children 24/7 365 days a year, it costs about €10-€20 per child per year.

On a more positive note, Irish teachers aren't so hamstrung by ticking boxes (for the moment!!) as the schools would be in England. So teachers are able to exercise flexibility than their English counterparts. The Dept. of Ed seem quite keen to bring in far more futile box ticking but haven't succeeded to date, to the extent that it exists across the water.

uma103

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Thank you for your detailed reply . [/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]We do pay here for some odd things like 2 per terms for baking sessions , or may be for sports day or school trips but not for books and photocopying . School meals are free for all children up to year 3 after that only if parents are on any kind of state benefits. [/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]What is covered in insurance ? is it just general liability insurance ?[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Is there any way to find out online which schools are better than others ? or longer the waiting list better the school is ?[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Regards,[/font]

Moonbeam

There are very few bad schools here.
Waiting lists very much depend on area as well as school type.
Every school has its own enrolment policy eg I put my child's name down at 14 months and we did not get a place due to waiting lists,but another school in the next town only accepts applications the year before.
There are 8 years in primary school here as opposed to 7,
Do you know what county or area?

uma103

I will be working in Dublin City Center and advise given to me in terms of finding accommodation is south of Dublin and near LUAS, DART lines are good areas to live . So schools i will be looking at will be around those areas.

Thanks,

Sesame

You'll also get to enjoy taking you children out for a day when you feel like it. You are allowed up to 20 day absences per year without any questions being asked. Or fines.
There are whole school evaluations which should give you a good idea of the issues that the school encounters although there isn't really a formal grading system. Google the school name and "whole school" evaluation to find their most recent inspection.
School here don't have the same facilities as the UK in general. There are no canteens, hot food or pools etc.
Teachers use workbooks a lot more than printed handouts. You have to buy the work books, as they are written in, but you can rent readers.
If you want to avoid a religious based education, look up Educate Together schools.

uma103

I must say 20 day school holiday allowance without any questions is very generous . My daughter just started Reception which is not even compulsory but still i cannot take any days off without explanations and still council can fine us 60 GBP per parent (120 GBP altogether) if we take her away for few days without formal approval which in most cases is very hard to get.

Is religious education compulsory is all schools ? what if parents dont want kids to attend religious education or of a different faith to what it is taught ?

Big Bag of Chips

It's not "20 days school holiday allowance"!! If your child is absent for more than 20 days over the course of the school year then it is reported to the powers that be.

While many parents do take their children out during term time for holidays it is not encouraged. In our school we are asked specifically not to. But I suppose if the child hasn't had many absences during the year then there's not much can be done. The absences are meant to be for sickness, or doctor/dentist/eye/speech therapy etc appointments. Family occasions, funerals, weddings. And if your child hasn't used all 20 days by the end of the year you don't need to 'use them up'!! Good attendance is very important and highly valued in most schools.

Don't mention "20 day school holiday allowance" to any principal!!!

The huge majority of schools are Catholic, but you can opt your child out of religion if you prefer. Educate Together schools are multiple-denominational and there are a small number of other religion schools. Irish is compulsory, and if your child is young enough they shouldn't have trouble. Most children starting primary school wouldn't have used any Irish at home, so every child is starting from the same point.

uma103

Thanks for your advise.

What do children do during the religious lessons if parents opt out for religious studies ?
Also when you say basic Irish, is it just speaking basic Irish or reading, writing grammar ect ?

Regards,

Big Bag of Chips

In the infant classes there would be very little Irish writing homework. None that I remember my children having. But they would learn the Irish words for basic things.. hat, coat, hands, head, dog, cat, etc. Simple sentences like "I put on my coat". "I like apples"! Once they get a little older they would learn more about families, brothers, sisters, holidays. They would be able to ask questions and construct sentences. It's all very very simple and very basic. Many parents in Ireland would have little or no Irish, but their children can still learn in school without needing help with homework. My daughter is 10, and I think this is the first year she's had Irish written homework.

Edit: if they opt out of religion, the child can do other work. Extra reading? Our just take it easy with colouring or whatever. It would depend on the teacher, but you could discuss that with them.

Moonbeam

Sesame wrote: »

You'll also get to enjoy taking you children out for a day when you feel like it. You are allowed up to 20 day absences per year without any questions being asked. Or fines.
There are whole school evaluations which should give you a good idea of the issues that the school encounters although there isn't really a formal grading system. Google the school name and "whole school" evaluation to find their most recent inspection.
School here don't have the same facilities as the UK in general. There are no canteens, hot food or pools etc.
Teachers use workbooks a lot more than printed handouts. You have to buy the work books, as they are written in, but you can rent readers.
If you want to avoid a religious based education, look up Educate Together schools.

Is that the way some parents really look at it?
I feel bad that my 2nd class child missed her 1st day this year,due to me being in A&E until after 2am with her little sister.

Moonbeam

There is a big shortage of rental accommodation in Dublin and it is expensive.

myhome.ie and daft.ie are the 2 main property sites.
irishrail.ie
dublibus.ie and
luas.ie are the transport sites.


http://www.education.ie/en/find-a-school
http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/primary-Schools-in-Ireland-by-County

what age is the child?

Sesame

I meant that a little tongue-in-check!
UK has clamped down massively on unauthorized absence , as the OP has described. Doctors notes and fines are the norm now where the child misses a day.
I am so glad that's not the way here and schools realise some of the value of education outside of the classroom, or family events, alternative religious festivities, etc.
Although I don't recommend pulling them out for a cheap package holiday fortnight, it is allowed.
Especially at the start of the new term. It wouldn't be too bad around May /June when there is more of a wind down in curricular activities.

The main weakness in Irish education is the religious element which can be avoided by choosing a non-religious school. But if you are stuck with a Catholic school, there's lots of religion throughout the day, not just in set periods. So its hard to opt your child out (no doubt by design). Church of Ireland schools, in my experience, can be less heavy on the religion.

uma103

Moonbeam wrote: »

There is a big shortage of rental accommodation in Dublin and it is expensive.

what age is the child?

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Thanks for your advise..[/font]

[font=Calibri, sans-serif]How about living outside M50 ring ? or to a commutable rail journey to Dublin city centre ? Is it still expensive ?[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]If I compare rental prices with Leeds (where I currently live) prices are really high but not higher then London which is way too expensive , But still in UK tenants have to pay Council tax on top of rent which can be easy 100-130 GBP per month depending on the age and size of the house. [/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]I heard there is no water bill in Ireland and if that is true then this is another 45-60 GBP less which every household pay in UK.[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]My daughter is 4 years and just started reception (not sure Irish equivalent but this is after nursery and before year 1)[/font]
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[font=Calibri, sans-serif]Thanks,[/font]

uma103

Sesame wrote: »

The main weakness in Irish education is the religious element which can be avoided by choosing a non-religious school. But if you are stuck with a Catholic school, there's lots of religion throughout the day, not just in set periods. So its hard to opt your child out (no doubt by design). Church of Ireland schools, in my experience, can be less heavy on the religion.

From my experience , quality of education in Catholic schools in UK is better then other schools ( I might be wrong ) but usually there is a long waiting list in Catholic schools.

byhookorbycrook

Sesame wrote: »

You'll also get to enjoy taking you children out for a day when you feel like it. You are allowed up to 20 day absences per year without any questions being asked. Or fines.
There are whole school evaluations which should give you a good idea of the issues that the school encounters although there isn't really a formal grading system. Google the school name and "whole school" evaluation to find their most recent inspection.
.

Actually this incorrect (not to mind sort of silly) If the school is concerned about absent children , they can report that at any stage.it's also very unfair on the entire class and the teacher when work missed has to be re-explained. If a child is ill, it's one thing, but if all 30 children took 20 days off over the year, what do you think would happen??

GalwayGrrrrrl

Be aware that if you choose a Roman Catholic school it's not just a case of sitting out during religion class- religion permeates the whole day. Prayers at the start, before meals, practice for first holy communion (pretty much the whole of 2nd class, age 8), Christmas mass, Ash Wednesday etc etc. If you are Catholic that's fine. But its hard to "sit out" of this if you are a different faith.

I'm English but have my kids in school in Galway. I find the level of teaching very good. There is more "rote learning" than in uk but that follows through right up to age 18. We use a Gaelscoil so all lessons are in Irish (maths, science etc) and the kids speak Irish in the playground. We speak English at home but the kids seem to cope well.
I wish you well with your move.

uma103

xfactorfan23 wrote: »

Be aware that if you choose a Roman Catholic school it's not just a case of sitting out during religion class- religion permeates the whole day. Prayers at the start, before meals, practice for first holy communion (pretty much the whole of 2nd class, age 8), Christmas mass, Ash Wednesday etc etc. If you are Catholic that's fine. But its hard to "sit out" of this if you are a different faith.

I'm English but have my kids in school in Galway. I find the level of teaching very good. There is more "rote learning" than in uk but that follows through right up to age 18. We use a Gaelscoil so all lessons are in Irish (maths, science etc) and the kids speak Irish in the playground. We speak English at home but the kids seem to cope well.
I wish you well with your move.

Thanks for all your advise.
What is the proportion of Catholic schools and non-catholic schools in Ireland ? Are there more Catholic schools and less non-catholic ? Because I am now thinking that if i start taking out Catholic and Gaelscoil because of faith and language issues , i will have a very narrow choice of schools to choose form ?

Big Bag of Chips

What if any faith are you? If you rule out Catholic Schools or schools with any religious ethos then you only have Educate Together Schools to choose from. Depending on where you live you might find it difficult to get a space. When are you planning to move?

Geuze

uma103 wrote: »

Thanks for all your advise.
What is the proportion of Catholic schools and non-catholic schools in Ireland ? Are there more Catholic schools and less non-catholic ? Because I am now thinking that if i start taking out Catholic and Gaelscoil because of faith and language issues , i will have a very narrow choice of schools to choose form ?

Approx 90% Catholic, I would guess, maybe 80%.


http://www.schooldays.ie/articles/primary-Schools-in-Ireland-by-County

3,262 primary schools in Ireland, including special schools.

Geuze

http://www.education.ie/en/find-a-school

This seems a handy tool.

uma103

Big Bag of Chips wrote: »

What if any faith are you? If you rule out Catholic Schools or schools with any religious ethos then you only have Educate Together Schools to choose from. Depending on where you live you might find it difficult to get a space. When are you planning to move?

I am moving mid Nov but my family will come over early next year. may be March - Apr.

Moonbeam

The school year here ends on the 30th of June for Primary Schools so maybe aim for Sept 2017.
We can help with info about location once you know where you are based.