Will Registers

Jellybaby1

Going through the Will Registers I sadly haven't found any juicy wills. My lot were too poor. However, I found a person hitherto unknown to me with the same surname that I am researching, in the same business as my family, and he is mentioned as below. I can't understand the jargon....

"Letters of administration of the personal estate of 'Joe Bloggs', were granted at the Principal Registry, to 'Joe Soap' having an interest."

Would it mean 'Joe Soap' was owed money by 'Joe Bloggs' and had to apply to the court for payment of the debt from the deceased's estate or would it be possible he could have been related and expecting a legacy? I'm trying to trace more on Joe Soap as he could be another twig of my tree.

Peregrinus

It means that Joe Soap isn't entitled to take out a grant because he's the next-of-kin, but because he has an interest in the administration of the estate - i.e. he expects to receive money out of the estate.

That could be because he's a creditor, or it could be because he was named in the will.

Jellybaby1

Although I really have to admit I don't know what 'take out a grant' really means, I think I'd lean towards Joe Soap being a creditor, knowing the family business at that time. Thanks Peregrinus.

KildareFan

"If you do not leave a Will then a Grant of Letters of Administration may be required instead of a Grant of Probate to administer your assets upon death." http://www.corsers.net.au/probate-and-letters-of-adminstration/

So your ancestor died intestate [not leaving a will], so Joe Soap applied for letters of administration to enable him to sort out the deceased's estate, while acknowledging that he had an interest, either as a direct legatee, or as a creditor.

Peregrinus

KildareFan wrote: »

"If you do not leave a Will then a Grant of Letters of Administration may be required instead of a Grant of Probate to administer your assets upon death." http://www.corsers.net.au/probate-and-letters-of-adminstration/

So your ancestor died intestate [not leaving a will], so Joe Soap applied for letters of administration to enable him to sort out the deceased's estate, while acknowledging that he had an interest, either as a direct legatee, or as a creditor.

You can have a grand of administration, even in a case where there is a will. Suppose the will names A as executor, but A is dead or refused to act or whatever. B, named in the will, has an interest in seeing that the estate gets dealt with, so that he gets what has been left to him. In this circumstance he can apply to be appointed to administer the estate himself, even though he is not the executor named in the will. If appointed, what he gets is not, technically, called a grant of probate; it's called a grant of administration with will annexed.

So, in this case, the ancestor did not necessarily die intestate. He could have left a will, but Joe Soap is not the executor named in the will.

tabbey

Peregrinus wrote: »

You can have a grand of administration, even in a case where there is a will. Suppose the will names A as executor, but A is dead or refused to act or whatever. B, named in the will, has an interest in seeing that the estate gets dealt with, so that he gets what has been left to him. In this circumstance he can apply to be appointed to administer the estate himself, even though he is not the executor named in the will. If appointed, what he gets is not, technically, called a grant of probate; it's called a grant of administration with will annexed.

So, in this case, the ancestor did not necessarily die intestate. He could have left a will, but Joe Soap is not the executor named in the will.

There can be many reasons why administration with will annexed, is granted.

I had one where a legal notice in the paper said the original executor did not understand or agree with the terms of the will.

In another case, administration was granted to a creditor, because the daughters were still under 21.

In yet another bizarre instance, of the two witnesses to the will, only one was literate, the other, a domestic servant, had her mark witnessed, by you guessed it, the first witness, in other words, only one witness signed, she was the wife of the testator, who had been in St Brendan's for years. Although this was a deeply suspicious case, the widow got administration of the estate.

Jellybaby1

Peregrinus wrote: »

You can have a grand of administration, even in a case where there is a will. Suppose the will names A as executor, but A is dead or refused to act or whatever. B, named in the will, has an interest in seeing that the estate gets dealt with, so that he gets what has been left to him. In this circumstance he can apply to be appointed to administer the estate himself, even though he is not the executor named in the will. If appointed, what he gets is not, technically, called a grant of probate; it's called a grant of administration with will annexed.

So, in this case, the ancestor did not necessarily die intestate. He could have left a will, but Joe Soap is not the executor named in the will.

Thank you for that. To clarify, the deceased was not my ancestor though, t'was actually Joe Soap.

tabbey wrote: »

There can be many reasons why administration with will annexed, is granted.

I had one where a legal notice in the paper said the original executor did not understand or agree with the terms of the will.

In another case, administration was granted to a creditor, because the daughters were still under 21.

In yet another bizarre instance, of the two witnesses to the will, only one was literate, the other, a domestic servant, had her mark witnessed, by you guessed it, the first witness, in other words, only one witness signed, she was the wife of the testator, who had been in St Brendan's for years. Although this was a deeply suspicious case, the widow got administration of the estate.

If we only knew the half of what went, or goes on, regarding wills. Bet there are lots more strange goings on.