Where are all the back handers and bribes gone !

handlemaster · 17-09-2016 3:23pm #1

Does anyone think that all contracts and profitable business are given without some bribes been given in Ireland ? We had tribunals for over ten years. Surely this way of business is alive and well , but we hear none of it . Why is that ?

mackeire · 17-09-2016 3:31pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Does anyone think that all contracts and profitable business are given without some bribes been given in Ireland ? We had tribunals for over ten years. Surely this way of business is alive and well , but we hear none of it . Why is that ?

Olympic tickets?

newacc2015 · 17-09-2016 4:10pm

handlemaster wrote: »

Does anyone think that all contracts and profitable business are given without some bribes been given in Ireland ? We had tribunals for over ten years. Surely this way of business is alive and well , but we hear none of it . Why is that ?

Everything that is state funded is put up for tenders publicly. There is very little room for abuses anymore. There are some questionable decisions like Topaz winning a massive contract over the thickness of a footpath

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/applegreen-tedcastles-challenge-topaz-motorway-contracts-1.2317441

Despite what people seem to think. Ireland is not that corrupt at all. The likes of planning and zoning is very transparent now. Irish people dont seem to understand what corruption actually is. If you asked any of your friends or family have they ever paid a bribe. The answer will almost certainly be no. How can corrupt be rife in Ireland, when no one has actually seen it? If they lived in South Africa or even Eastern Europe, the answer would probably be several bribes a year.

handlemaster · 17-09-2016 5:45pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

Everything that is state funded is put up for tenders publicly. There is very little room for abuses anymore. There are some questionable decisions like Topaz winning a massive contract over the thickness of a footpath

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/applegreen-tedcastles-challenge-topaz-motorway-contracts-1.2317441

Despite what people seem to think. Ireland is not that corrupt at all. The likes of planning and zoning is very transparent now. Irish people dont seem to understand what corruption actually is. If you asked any of your friends or family have they ever paid a bribe. The answer will almost certainly be no. How can corrupt be rife in Ireland, when no one has actually seen it? If they lived in South Africa or even Eastern Europe, the answer would probably be several bribes a year.

Perhaps the ordinary guy on the street no they wouldnt see it.but when contracts are given out and other companies working on the back of those main contractors would be interesting to know how it works.

Microdot · 17-09-2016 5:53pm

A bribe isn't always money so your not likely to see it.

Fr_Dougal · 17-09-2016 6:00pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

Everything that is state funded is put up for tenders publicly. There is very little room for abuses anymore. There are some questionable decisions like Topaz winning a massive contract over the thickness of a footpath

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/applegreen-tedcastles-challenge-topaz-motorway-contracts-1.2317441

Despite what people seem to think. Ireland is not that corrupt at all. The likes of planning and zoning is very transparent now. Irish people dont seem to understand what corruption actually is. If you asked any of your friends or family have they ever paid a bribe. The answer will almost certainly be no. How can corrupt be rife in Ireland, when no one has actually seen it? If they lived in South Africa or even Eastern Europe, the answer would probably be several bribes a year.

Tenders? Like that HSE tender where the medical supplies company was sending HSE employees on holidays etc.?

Ireland is still as corrupt as it ever was.

_Whimsical_ · 17-09-2016 6:05pm

They're still there, they're just quieter about it and keep it strictly among their own set.

ClovenHoof · 17-09-2016 6:09pm

Brown envelopes are so 1990s!

The cash is now handed over in gluten-free Taco Shells.

B.A._Baracus · 17-09-2016 6:42pm

Wise to assume bribes and backhanders will always exist. So they're still happening. Just kept more quiet.

newacc2015 · 17-09-2016 8:03pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Tenders? Like that HSE tender where the medical supplies company was sending HSE employees on holidays etc.?

Ireland is still as corrupt as it ever was.

So Ireland is as corrupt as ever and you dont know what a tender is? This proves my point everyone waffling on about corruption, doesnt know what corruption is Tenders are transparent. You can find out why you didnt get the contract.

If Ireland is so corrupt, when did you last pay a bribe? Or anyone you know?

whisky_galore · 17-09-2016 8:22pm

Like 'the Boys', bribes or sweeteners or whatever you care to call them haven't gone away you know. We have a long way to go to eliminate cute hoorism, esp with big time movers and shakers where even if you get caught a light slap on the wrist and mild disgrace are the only punishments doled out. Not as endemic here as in other countries where bribery is quite barefaced at all levels of society in order to get anything done.

El_Duderino 09 · 17-09-2016 8:28pm

handlemaster wrote:

Does anyone think that all contracts and profitable business are given without some bribes been given in Ireland ? We had tribunals for over ten years. Surely this way of business is alive and well , but we hear none of it . Why is that ?

Bribes were part and parcel of doing business in the past. You can't apply rules retrospectively and punish people who were just doing business. The tribunals weren't necessarily about catching people. It was more about sending the message that business is changing. It went on for 10 years to be visible and make sure the message was sustained. See the tribunals as a lengthy public service announcement.

Transparency International gas Ireland as joint 18 least corrupt country in the world. We should always seek to maximise fairness but corruption is not a big problem in Ireland. We should give ourselves credit when we do things well and we have done a decent job of stamping out corruption compared to the rest of the world.

Fr_Dougal · 17-09-2016 9:22pm

newacc2015 wrote: »

So Ireland is as corrupt as ever and you dont know what a tender is? This proves my point everyone waffling on about corruption, doesnt know what corruption is Tenders are transparent. You can find out why you didnt get the contract.

If Ireland is so corrupt, when did you last pay a bribe? Or anyone you know?

What are you spouting on about?

Did you not read the news last year where it transpired that a private company who won a public tender to supply medical supplies were found guilty of bribery?

If you're going to 'waffle' on yourself, make sure you know what you're talking about.

A number of fresh allegations about procurement practices in the Health Service Executive have been made at an Oireachtas Health Committee meeting.

The committee discussed issues raised in an RTÉ Investigations Unit programme last week, which alleged that some senior members of hospital staff were in receipt of expensive holidays and gifts from a supplier, in breach of their rules of employment.

The report alleged some purchasing officers passed on commercially sensitive information to a medical supplies company which included competitor’s price lists.

Three individuals featured in the report co-ordinate the purchasing of medical and other goods for St Vincent's University Hospital and the Beacon Hospital in Dublin with Eurosurgical Limited, a large surgical supplies firm, also based in Dublin.

The HSE confirmed today that it held a meeting in recent days with Eurosurgical Ltd.

A spokesperson for the HSE told RTÉ that Eurosurgical has confirmed that Alan Kane, its sales director, has been suspended pending the outcome of an internal investigation.

Efforts to confirm this with the company have proved unsuccessful.

Earlier this week the Beacon Hospital confirmed that an employee, Noel Bergin, a supply chain co-ordinator, had resigned.

Two employees of St Vincent’s Hospital remain off duty on paid leave.

In the committee hearing this afternoon, Fianna Fáil TD Robert Troy questioned a number of HSE contracts including the allocation of a tender to supply a €500,000 patient management system to the Mater Public Hospital without it going out to tender.

He asked HSE National Director of Acute Hospitals Liam Woods a number of questions regarding procurement practices.

Mr Troy asked Mr Woods if he was familiar with a supplier called PEI and an unnamed officer within that company who "who has a franchise for INCO products and previously worked on Hartman products?"

Mr Troy told the committee he is not saying the allegations are true but is raising concerns "that have been brought to me by a citizen".

Mr Woods said he is aware of the company and had seen a reference to an employee of the Mater Hospital but was not aware of any more at this stage.

Mr Troy also asked Mr Woods to confirm if the HSE has a policy in relation to employees or members of a board and if they must declare if they have an interest with a pharmaceutical company or medical supply company.

Mr Woods said the "non-direct HSE funded entities are accountable through their own boards for their own governance. However the HSE has a service-level agreement in place with those which includes requirements to comply with the national procurement standards of the HSE and it also seeks an annual signing of a compliance statement."

Earlier, Mr Woods told the health committee should the allegations made on the RTÉ Investigations Unit programme be proved, they were "entirely unacceptable" and the HSE condemns them in the strongest manner.

He said it was also important to allow due process to take its course.

He said since the programme aired the executive has reviewed €1.08m worth of contracts with Eurosurgical and has no concerns at this time.

Mr Woods said the HSE is currently in a tender process for surgical consumables, including the type of items provided by Eurosurgical, and the outcome of this process is near completion.

He also told the committee that the Minister for Health received correspondence from Deputy Emmet Stagg, which was copied to the Minister for Justice, enclosing specific allegations made to gardaí in June 2014 against named staff at five hospitals, private, voluntary and statutory.

Mr Woods said the HSE's National Director of Internal Audit met with the Garda Bureau of Fraud Investigation in November 2014 and offered to provide any possible assistance that it might require in respect of the two HSE hospitals referred to by the whistleblower, Midland Regional Hospital Mullingar and St Columcille's.

"The internal audits of St Columcille's and Mullingar identified deficiencies in procurement controls but no evidence of wrongdoing. Although, it should be stated, that collusion between supplier and purchaser, as alleged in this case, is very difficult to be detected by management, internal audit and external audit".

Mr Woods said it was important to note that while the whistleblower contacted and met gardaí with specific allegations, he did not meet or provide the Department of Health or the HSE with any direct evidence of the allegations made.