Changing departments in Civil Service

Dr Crayfish

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is possible and if so how to go about it? I am about 2.5 years in a position in a Government Department but I really hate it. There are ups and downs but it's just getting worse at the moment. The stress is keeping me awake at night and I work with some really horrible people. It seems the whole department is just toxic and for my own sake I really need to get out of here.
Has anyone done this before? Do you have to have certain grounds for transfer? I'm not in the union and I'm at EO level. I presume it would be something like talking to HR? Thanks.

Yenwod

It probably depends on your department but I think most HR do have transfer lists to put your name down on...they can take a while to move though unfortunately. But probably best to email HR and ask about it. Would a transfer within the department even help do you think?

Another way is to look at the head-to-head transfers in the PSEU magazine and see if there is a swap that would suit.

I work in a pretty toxic department myself and would love to get out but it's difficult...even with open promotions. Easy to say but try not let it interfere with your life outside work, no job is worth that!

bobbysands81

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Hi all. I was wondering if anyone knows if this is possible and if so how to go about it? I am about 2.5 years in a position in a Government Department but I really hate it. There are ups and downs but it's just getting worse at the moment. The stress is keeping me awake at night and I work with some really horrible people. It seems the whole department is just toxic and for my own sake I really need to get out of here.
Has anyone done this before? Do you have to have certain grounds for transfer? I'm not in the union and I'm at EO level. I presume it would be something like talking to HR? Thanks.

Talk to your Employee Assistance Professional, they might be able to talk through some of the issues you raise.

www.cseas.per.gov.ie

Slydice

All the Unions have a transfers section in their magazines.

rostalof

Most recent PSEU magazine. Head to heads on page 22,

http://www.pseu.ie/_fileupload/pdf/PSEU%20Review%20JulyAugust%202016%20WEB.pdf

2RockMountain

Slydice wrote: »

All the Unions have a transfers section in their magazines.

Are transfers available at AP or PO levels?

Slydice

Closest I can find is this:

Transfers between all grades in the civil service can be arranged on an informal, head-to-head, basis. Such transfers are arranged between the officers seeking to move and the relevant Personnel Units and require the agreement of both Personnel Officers. The transfer of staff within the Health, Education, and Local Government sectors is a matter for the Minister with responsibility for the sector involved.

The AP and PO Union, the AHCPS would probably know more on it:
http://www.ahcps.ie/

Riskymove

2RockMountain wrote: »

Are transfers available at AP or PO levels?

Yes

If you are in the AHCPS, contact Head Office and they will have details circulated

ParkRunner

According to the civil service renewal plan...

- An Interdepartmental Principal Officer Mobility Policy was implemented in July 2015.
- Guiding principles for the development of a Civil Service wide staff mobility scheme has been approved by the CSMB. Plans to pilot this scheme for Clerical Officers and Executive Officers are well advanced.

RockDesk

Just be careful not to jump at the first transfer offer you get without thinking about it as the grass isn't always greener. You may end up in an equally (or more) toxic place. It's always going to be a risk unless you know someone in the department you've been offered so just try and make a move that's convenient to you, rather than just getting out of where you are now i.e. nearer your home/transport.

And you don't need any excuse beyond wanting to further your career.

Set up an alert on publicjobs.ie as well. Their filters aren't great but it does the job.

Phantasos

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

There are ups and downs but it's just getting worse at the moment. The stress is keeping me awake at night and I work with some really horrible people. It seems the whole department is just toxic and for my own sake I really need to get out of here.

Spoiler alert - most civil service departments have that same toxic atmosphere. If you think escaping that department will solve your problems... it likely won't. You'll encounter 'those' people and that work in another department too. And I've seen a few different departments, so I know.

What you need to do is escape the civil service altogether, if you want a different type of working environment. Sorry, bro.

Dr Crayfish

Phantasos wrote: »

Spoiler alert - most civil service departments have that same toxic atmosphere. If you think escaping that department will solve your problems... it likely won't. You'll encounter 'those' people and that work in another department too. And I've seen a few different departments, so I know.

What you need to do is escape the civil service altogether, if you want a different type of working environment. Sorry, bro.

Only saw this response now. You could be on to something there. Before this position I was a few years in a software company abroad, where I was treated like an adult and not some kind of bold child who only gets told what he does wrong. I've worked for a number of multinationals over the years and the civil service is just the strangest environment. There's literally no positive feedback where I am, it gets you down and makes me feel like my job is worthless.
A friend left a couple of months ago to work for Pfizer (he has a real job now). His take on it is that management are the problem, and that the people we were working with wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector. People talk to each other at his new job like adults. It's absolutely true.
I spoke to HR and they just said "no that's not possible anymore", to transfer to a different department, so I'll just have to bear it for a while.
I'm going to try and upskill more at night, I could probably get work elsewhere at the moment but I guess I should try and get some more qualifications first before saying adios to the bloody CS.

Third_Echelon

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Only saw this response now. You could be on to something there. Before this position I was a few years in a software company abroad, where I was treated like an adult and not some kind of bold child who only gets told what he does wrong. I've worked for a number of multinationals over the years and the civil service is just the strangest environment. There's literally no positive feedback where I am, it gets you down and makes me feel like my job is worthless.
A friend left a couple of months ago to work for Pfizer (he has a real job now). His take on it is that management are the problem, and that the people we were working with wouldn't be tolerated in the private sector. People talk to each other at his new job like adults. It's absolutely true.
I spoke to HR and they just said "no that's not possible anymore", to transfer to a different department, so I'll just have to bear it for a while.
I'm going to try and upskill more at night, I could probably get work elsewhere at the moment but I guess I should try and get some more qualifications first before saying adios to the bloody CS.

I think you've seen the light and answered your own question here... You need to get out of there for your own sanity and into the private sector. The right job is out there somewhere. Sit tight and pounce on it when it comes. Upskilling is a great idea. Will keep you motivated.

pumpkin4life

Phantasos wrote: »

Spoiler alert - most civil service departments have that same toxic atmosphere. If you think escaping that department will solve your problems... it likely won't. You'll encounter 'those' people and that work in another department too. And I've seen a few different departments, so I know.

What you need to do is escape the civil service altogether, if you want a different type of working environment. Sorry, bro.

Seconded. I was in the same scenario. The public sector is an absolute rotten joke.

Try and get the fùck out of there, the sooner the better.

Phantasos

pumpkin4life wrote: »

Seconded. I was in the same scenario. The public sector is an absolute rotten joke.

Try and get the fùck out of there, the sooner the better.

I have to take my own advice! Trapped in that sector for a long time. At first, because of limited opportunities. Recently? I was actually out of work 18 months ago and a manager asked me to work for the summer... and I'm still here. Even though I swore I'd never go back to clerical officer work.

Dr Crayfish wrote:

Before this position I was a few years in a software company abroad, where I was treated like an adult and not some kind of bold child who only gets told what he does wrong.

Yeah, that's the worst part. I'm in my late 20s and I'm constantly treated like some sort of Transition Year student on their first ever work experience, despite outworking my manager (times ten) every day.

I would love to be treated like an adult.

Yenwod

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Only saw this response now. You could be on to something there. Before this position I was a few years in a software company abroad, where I was treated like an adult and not some kind of bold child who only gets told what he does wrong. I've worked for a number of multinationals over the years and the civil service is just the strangest environment. There's literally no positive feedback where I am, it gets you down and makes me feel like my job is worthless.

Nail on head - I'm surprised I don't have to ask for permission to go to the toilet sometimes

confusedlady01

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

Dodge

confusedlady01 wrote: »

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

Well your decision to leave for an insulting starting wage is your own business.

Plenty of good people, and good working conditions, in the civil service (some ****e ones too). Best of luck in your new role.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

confusedlady01 wrote: »

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

Don't worry. I've worked in a number of roles in 4 different locations in 2 different departments and I've never been made to feel like my job was worthless. It's the luck of the draw really but, in my experience, you'd be unlucky to end up in that kind of environment.

Creol1

confusedlady01 wrote: »

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

I've worked in two government departments and I've found the people to be far nicer than the private sector. Without casting doubt on the veracity of the OP's claims, I don't think they're representative of the Service. Of all the people I've worked with/along, there are only one or two I can think of who could be described as being toxic or obnoxious.

Perhaps, OP, you could talk to your HEO about the workload and ask if it could be distributed differently? You say you get the impression that the "whole department" is the same, but can you be sure? Transferring to a different division/section in the same office can be done very easily, so that might be something to look in to.

Yenwod

confusedlady01 wrote: »

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

It really really depends where you end up working and who you end up working with. You could have an utterly lovely section or the opposite. I think the problem with some departments is that if you do end up in a bad one, it can be difficult to get out / transfer and for the past few years, be promoted (but now the moratorium has been lifted, its a bit different). Go in with an open mind to it and see how it goes. You could end up loving it

planstan

confusedlady01 wrote: »

This thread is making me sad. I left a decent job in the private sector and am now about to start into the Civil Service as a Clerical Officer. I left my job because of a toxic environment and the stress of dealing with awful people for no thanks...is this really what I'm letting myself in for again? Not to mention the insulting starting wage, I feel like I'm going to trap myself in another awful place for a couple of years.

It depends on a few factors; where you end up working, if your work ethic aligns with the CS, if your line manager knows what they're doing (sounds funny but it's a real possibility they may have no clue), if you like the work given to you.

You'll get toxic individuals in all sectors. The jobsworths I've encountered in the private sector were either managed properly until they copped on, or they moved on to another job.
Not what happens in the CS, from my observation the toxicity often comes from management.

I genuinely believe you need a certain attitude and outlook to enjoy working in the CS. Some love it, as is clear from loads of civil servants who frequent this board. Some detest it. Give it a shot, you might like it.

Brody78

2RockMountain wrote: »

Slydice wrote: »

All the Unions have a transfers section in their magazines.

Are transfers available at AP or PO levels?

There's a PO mobility scheme in operation you should be receiving the emails from HR

jimmythedivil

I have been told that it is only possible to transfer to a dept in another location, is this true?

sickofthis

Would somebody who has only started recently as Co who is on probation have any chance of a transfer? I'm really struggling with the work and am feeling sick with nerves every day. Have been told I should try and get moved to somewhere more suited to my skill set but I am afraid to ask my boss in case it goes against me.

RockDesk

sickofthis wrote: »

Would somebody who has only started recently as Co who is on probation have any chance of a transfer? I'm really struggling with the work and am feeling sick with nerves every day. Have been told I should try and get moved to somewhere more suited to my skill set but I am afraid to ask my boss in case it goes against me.

I'm pretty sure you have to be out of probation.

rostalof

You can put yourself on the transfer list as soon as you like. However it can take a while to move up the list. Generally they expect you to wait 2 years before transferring. But there can also be exceptions. I got myself on the list 4 weeks after I started and fluked a transfer after 15 months.

Ask your local HR how to express your interest in a transfer. In my dept. I had to fill out an Expression Of Interest (EOI) form, but it may be different in your dept.

In the mean time I'd talk to your EO or HEO and let them know your situation. You might be pleasantly surprised. They'd rather you grow into the job or find one for you that you can excel at rather than one where you just get by. Maybe CSEAS might be worth a try.

whatlliwear

If you contact HR and ask them to contact the Department you want to move to they can place you on a transfer list.

jimd2

Phantasos wrote: »

Spoiler alert - most civil service departments have that same toxic atmosphere. If you think escaping that department will solve your problems... it likely won't. You'll encounter 'those' people and that work in another department too. And I've seen a few different departments, so I know.

What you need to do is escape the civil service altogether, if you want a different type of working environment. Sorry, bro.

I have worked both private sector and civil service and this difference is not black and white. I have worked in three different industries and 2 departments and have found the most toxic atmosphere in one of the industries where the company was a relatively old company but very badly run and lucky that they had an established business.

The civil service work has been in one department and one agency and generally the atmosphere has been good. Comunication could be better.

My advice would be to do as planned, continue to upskill but be careful to do as much homework before jumping ship.

ParkRunner

I understand DPER are launching a central portal next year to manage transfer requests, which should hopefully makes things a bit more transparent.

Yenwod

sickofthis wrote: »

Would somebody who has only started recently as Co who is on probation have any chance of a transfer? I'm really struggling with the work and am feeling sick with nerves every day. Have been told I should try and get moved to somewhere more suited to my skill set but I am afraid to ask my boss in case it goes against me.

Put your name down on a transfer list but as others said, you could potentially be waiting a while and quite sure you have to be out of probation.

As regards your current situation, nobody should be going into work feeling like that. Ask to meet you EO/HEO privately and explain you're a bit overwhelmed - they can't do anything for you if they don't realise you're struggling. They may be able to change your job or give you better training etc. Being honest about this can't go against you. Letting your work slide secretly and not letting your boss know why would be worse.

Ballingarry

Hi I am just posting in the off chance there is somebody in the Mid West region looking to transfer to Portlaoise or the Midlands area. I am an EO currently working in Portlaoise and would like to transfer to Mid West -(Tipperary or Limerick )
please PM if interested. Flexi time and free car parking available

bobbysands81

Ballingarry wrote: »

Hi I am just posting in the off chance there is somebody in the Mid West region looking to transfer to Portlaoise or the Midlands area. I am an EO currently working in Portlaoise and would like to transfer to Mid West -(Tipperary or Limerick )
please PM if interested. Flexi time and free car parking available

Have you checked the ads in the PSEU magazine?

Ballingarry

Thanks - Yes but nothing coming up on them

Big Vern

I know this is a old thread but seemed the place to ask this question.

Just wondering if anyone knows about transfers within the Civil Service for someone who is newly promoted.

There is someone who works with me and is nearing the end of their probation and they are looking to change once they pass their probation.

There is a chance they could transfer to another Dept. on a head to head transfer, someone else is looking to get out of where they are, have been there years and is looking to change.

So under a head to head transfer does the person have to have served 2 years in their current role/Dept or can they transfer after one year when they pass probation?

Crunchymomma

Big Vern wrote: »

I know this is a old thread but seemed the place to ask this question.

Just wondering if anyone knows about transfers within the Civil Service for someone who is newly promoted.

There is someone who works with me and is nearing the end of their probation and they are looking to change once they pass their probation.

There is a chance they could transfer to another Dept. on a head to head transfer, someone else is looking to get out of where they are, have been there years and is looking to change.

So under a head to head transfer does the person have to have served 2 years in their current role/Dept or can they transfer after one year when they pass probation?

I think for CO and EO level, head to head transfers are no longer allowed as phase 1a of new mobility scheme went live at the start of September

Not sure what the story is if a higher grade

Big Vern

Crunchymomma wrote: »

I think for CO and EO level, head to head transfers are no longer allowed as phase 1a of new mobility scheme went live at the start of September

Not sure what the story is if a higher grade

Its at HEO level, that grade isn't covered by new mobility scheme as of yet.