No Mans Sky - attempted refund from Sony

Branoic

Is anyone on the forum familiar with No Mans Sky - the massively hyped and eagerly awaiting game for PS4 and PC that was launched about a month ago? It turned out to be not at all like the marketing / developer interviews and all hell broke lose. There's long lists and YouTube videos outlining in detail the list of missing features and showing how the game was misrepresented and missold.

Following all of this there were reports of various online digital stores granting exceptions to their refund policies to issue thousands of refunds to angry consumers shouting about the game being missold. Steam, Amazon and Sony were all shown and proven to have been granting refunds.

Being p1ssed with the game myself, I got in contact with PlayStation Europe to request a refund, but they've refused and said that they're not making any exceptions to their standard refund policy, which states that no refunds are given after a game has starteddownloading, never mind been played for a certain length of time.

Does anyone know where my best chances would be to challenge this decision and ridiculous policy?

For reference here's my correspondence with Sony. The initial complaint / request is absent because this was done via online chat and I don't have a copy of the logs handy.

Hi XX,

We have reviewed your refund request for your purchase of No Man’s Sky.

We are aware of comments online from some players expressing disappointment with the release features of No Man’s Sky. During the development process, the game changed and evolved based on thousands of hours of user testing and feedback on what worked and what didn’t to bring you the best gameplay experience and the most fun. Hello Games made choices during this development which they believed would provide the best experience for the players. No Man’s Sky was intended to be something unique, vast and inventive, and we feel Hello Games delivered that. They are also working to ensure that No Man’s Sky will continue to evolve and benefit from new features over the coming months, and as such, we are not making any exceptions to our standard refund policy.

As per that refund policy, any games, game add-ons, season passes, in-game consumables or PlayStation® Video titles that have started being downloaded or streamed are not eligible for a refund.

As you have already downloaded No Man’s Sky, we will not be issuing a refund for this purchase.

You can read our full policy here; https://www.playstation.com/en-gb/get-help/help-library/store---transactions/payments---refunds/playstation-store-cancellation-policy/

If you have any other questions in the future, feel free to drop us a line.

Thanks

Mariusz
Player Support Expert
PlayStation Support

Hi Mariusz,

Thank you for your email, but I must say I am disappointed and wish to make a number of points -

1) The game did not "evolve" - that suggests improvements and additions to already advertised features and content. The opposite happened - features and content which had been blatantly advertised were stripped from the release version of the game without any clear indication prior to launch of these changes. In fact Sean Murray continued to publicly lie about these features and screenshots etc of absent game elements continued to be used in marketing material right up until launch and after.

2) I don't care what ongoing work is being done by Hello Games to "improve" the game post launch. They have no credibility and I do not trust them. I did not buy the promise of a game 6 months down the line. This was not an "Early Access" type purchase. This was a retail release which is demonstrably different and inferior to that portrayed in the marketing.

3) To say that you are not making exceptions to your refund rules is blatantly false. The internet is awash with reports of refunds being given, and I personally know a number of people who have secured the same from the Sony store.

4) At the same time I am aware that some people are pushing their luck by claiming refunds after 70 - 80 hour play times, which I view as dishonest and ridiculous, and those people should not get refunds. However, while I have downloaded and played the game (how else was I to verify that it was missold?) I'm sure you are able to verify my play time on record to see that I am not one of these people. I have played the game for a very short period of time since launch, enough to confirm the problems with the product. You can also verify my past PlayStation history to confirm I've never requested any other type of refund.

Regards,

Hi XX,

Thanks for your e-mail.

The decision that has been made is consistent and in line with the cancellation policy in our region. Unfortunately, I am not able to comment on how these cases may have been treated in different regions.

I fully appreciate that this was not the outcome you had been looking for but I am afraid this is our final position on the matter.

Thank you,

David
Player Support Specialist
PlayStation Support

Kings Inns or bust

This has been well tested I'm afraid OP. The Sales of Goods Acts are limited to the physical media or service working (e.g. no corrupted download). After that the actual game can be a steaming pile of horse crap and there is nothing you can do.

There may be some comeback in the distance selling regs but IIRC digital downloads etc are not covered.

If it were me I'd try the small claims court for pure devilment but getting the correct party is going to be a huge pain in the arse. If you do get something going in the District Court try latching on to some lunatic academics in a few of the law schools. I remember one guy in DCU asserting the potential Constitutional right to a satellite dish, I could never work out if he was joking or not.

You might try getting this moved across to Legal Discussions but I'd check with the mods there if they'll allow this as it's an actual scenario.

Kings Inns or bust

Oh and PC gaming for the win, you don't get this sh1t with Steam me laddo! :pac:

Paulw

You could try contacting your bank/credit card provider and requesting a chargeback, based on your view above.

Otherwise, you're fairly stuck. One reason I never ever preorder games and stuff like that.

Not sure if it would be worth your while considering the small claims court.

BeardySi

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Oh and PC gaming for the win, you don't get this sh1t with Steam me laddo! :pac:

Steam didn't relent on their normal refund policy either, despite some sources claiming that they were....

Kings Inns or bust

Treadhead wrote: »

Steam didn't relent on their normal refund policy either, despite some sources claiming that they were....

To be fair it's not great but it's better than as soon as it's downloaded.

Kings Inns or bust

Paulw wrote: »

Not sure if it would be worth your while considering the small claims court.

Of absolutely no individual benefit to be sure but if enough people get on board these things can change company policies - eventually.

The_Valeyard

Didnt the EU force Steam into giving refunds?

Kings Inns or bust

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Didnt the EU force Steam into giving refunds?

Possibly - it would be great if it was something with universal application but the reason there are no pre-owned PC games is a technical legal matter so I suspect PC related purchases are different here too.

L1011

Kings Inns or bust wrote: »

Possibly - it would be great if it was something with universal application but the reason there are no pre-owned PC games is a technical legal matter so I suspect PC related purchases are different here too.

There were plenty of pre-owned PC games before the online play era, though. Filled my bedroom as a kid from the second hand games shop on Talbot Street.

That the online play is generally wrapped in to the purchase price now whereas its an extra or provided by the hardware vendor on consoles is the only major difference really.

Nody

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Didnt the EU force Steam into giving refunds?

The limit is you can only have played the game for maximum 4h iirc.

FAILSAFE 00

Microsoft's Xbox do refunds so I don't see why greedy Sony won't.

Sony are notorious for their horrible refund policy.

Xterminator

OP can i just say your approach to this was ill advised, and thats stating it nicely.

you accepted the terms and conditions when you used the playstation store. - you dont seem to accept this anywhere. & You outright call sony europe liars.

To say that you are not making exceptions to your refund rules is blatantly false.

This is simply bad manners on your part. you have accused them of lying based on anonymous reports. If i was working for sony i would refuse to entertain you too!


if you read http://www.geek.com/games/steam-is-issuing-no-mans-sky-refunds-even-if-youve-played-for-over-70-hours-1668389/
you will see some people may have managed to get a refund, but not by going on and calling sony liars!!

instead they managed to get a goodwill gesture over and above sonys terms and conditions. that would be your best bet, but to get goodwill you need to show goodwill.

X

Kings Inns or bust

L1011 wrote: »

There were plenty of pre-owned PC games before the online play era, though. Filled my bedroom as a kid from the second hand games shop on Talbot Street.

That the online play is generally wrapped in to the purchase price now whereas its an extra or provided by the hardware vendor on consoles is the only major difference really.

They're still on sale today in various shops... doesn't make it legal. In fact the position may have only just changed to being legal on the back of some EU jurisprudence over software licences.

Kings Inns or bust

Xterminator wrote: »

OP can i just say your approach to this was ill advised, and thats stating it nicely.

you accepted the terms and conditions when you used the playstation store. - you dont seem to accept this anywhere. & You outright call sony europe liars. This is simply bad manners on your part. you have accused them of lying based on anonymous reports. If i was working for sony i would refuse to entertain you too!


if you read http://www.geek.com/games/steam-is-issuing-no-mans-sky-refunds-even-if-youve-played-for-over-70-hours-1668389/
you will see some people may have managed to get a refund, but not by going on and calling sony liars!!

instead they managed to get a goodwill gesture over and above sonys terms and conditions. that would be your best bet, but to get goodwill you need to show goodwill.

X

So the OP has called them out on them saying they're not doing refunds when they are and he's in the wrong... interesting point of view.

I wish the world was more polite, but when I've been, essentially, done I find it difficult to smile and say please as well.

Xterminator

understand your point, but sony europe have not 'done' anyone. they provided a service which they delivered.

OP accepted terms and conditions, now is requesting a refund which is outside the refund policy he agreed to. He then called Sony liars, based on rumour.

finally refunds, sony have not provided any. instead they may have offered a goodwill gesture to unhappy loyal customers.
do you see the difference.

One approach is to go on demanding a refund and calling them liars, the other to say, i understand that sony have no legal obligation - but as a loyal and unhappy customer & can you do something for me in these exceptional circumstances.

Kings Inns or bust

I also understand where you're coming from, especially given where I'm sat right now! :pac:

However T&Cs in consumer contracts are constantly subject to legislation which is ignored by many companies until customers 'kick up'. I also disagree that there is a difference between a refund and a guesture of good will - but I won't labour the point.

We should be in a position these days where if a customer is agreived a refund is forthcoming, especially where the porduct has been recived widespread criticism. Again you may disagree and that point of view id perfectly valid of course!

The_Valeyard

Nody wrote: »

The limit is you can only have played the game for maximum 4h iirc.

Yeah I'm aware of that, but I think that is very fair. And steam are pretty open about this when certain games just are not finished or ported correctly, such as Arkham Knight.

the groutch

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Microsoft's Xbox do refunds so I don't see why greedy Sony won't.

Sony are notorious for their horrible refund policy.

do they now?
is that why NO REFUNDS comes up on screen for every digital purchase?

FAILSAFE 00

the groutch wrote: »

do they now?
is that why NO REFUNDS comes up on screen for every digital purchase?

LOL, nice try.

You'll find a whole forum of Xbox users who have gotten refunds for one or more games. In 2014 many of us here on boards got our Battlefield 4 premium refunded and also Xbox let us keep premium on our profiles. We mentioned the issues with BF4 at the time and got our €50 back.

Also for your information I have just checked the Xbox store on console and the Xbox website and there is no mention of 'NO REFUNDS' for digital games.

ibFoxer

the groutch wrote: »

do they now?
is that why NO REFUNDS comes up on screen for every digital purchase?

One of the chaps i game with got a refund on a mistaken order recently, when they could have easily told him to do one.

Riesen_Meal

the groutch wrote: »

do they now?
is that why NO REFUNDS comes up on screen for every digital purchase?

It's dealt with on a case by case basis, there are generally no refunds on games/DLC but in the case of a buggy game or something not working they may allow a refund, and generally only once a year it is allowed...

Sony and MS have pretty much exactly the same policies on it...

FAILSAFE 00

Fieldog wrote: »

It's dealt with on a case by case basis, there are generally no refunds on games/DLC but in the case of a buggy game or something not working they may allow a refund, and generally only once a year it is allowed...

Sony and MS have pretty much exactly the same policies on it...

They are very, very, far apart. Much more consumer friendly at Microsoft when it comes to refunds and any issues of account fraud.

maximoose

Paulw wrote: »

You could try contacting your bank/credit card provider and requesting a chargeback, based on your view above.

Just be aware, Sony are well known for banning PSN accounts if you do this.

Riesen_Meal

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

They are very, very, far apart. Much more consumer friendly at Microsoft when it comes to refunds and any issues of account fraud.

Dude, give up the Sony bashing, we get you don't like Sony, that's fine...

I worked in MS support long enough and know how their refund policy works, the only time with a buggy game I had to get a refund from Sony back in the PS3 era was dealt with no problem at all by the agent...

I also had a dual shock 4 issue and again, Sony were great to deal with on the phone, I had a great laugh with the lad on the phone when I told him I worked for MS support, he told me he had an Xbox One at the time...

I think how you deal with people on the phone will determine how you get on with the eventual call....

Mind you we have all had shîtty support, and there is nothing more infuriating...

Xbox chat support in the Philippines would send you off the wall...

FAILSAFE 00

Fieldog wrote: »

Dude, give up the Sony bashing, we get you don't like Sony, that's fine...

I worked in MS support long enough and know how their refund policy works, the only time with a buggy game I had to get a refund from Sony back in the PS3 era was dealt with no problem at all by the agent...

I also had a dual shock 4 issue and again, Sony were great to deal with on the phone, I had a great laugh with the lad on the phone when I told him I worked for MS support, he told me he had an Xbox One at the time...

I think how you deal with people on the phone will determine how you get on with the eventual call....

Mind you we have all had shîtty support, and there is nothing more infuriating...

Xbox chat support in the Philippines would send you off the wall...

I know several people who were refunded for even accidental purchases. Check out the Xbox forum to find countless other people who have had a similar experience.

I myself even had my Xbox Live subscription auto renew when I didn't want to renew it from my card. 4 days later when I noticed it had auto renewed I contacted them and got a full refund.

Lets call a spade a spade. I honestly don't know how gamers can actually defend Sony's shockingly poor refund policy. It is completely anti consumer and needs to be rectified. Of course the Sony fans will be in to say "its just like Microsoft" and "Sure aren't they all the same" instead of saying yes, it isn't right. Its never going to change when fans defend Sony instead of insisting on better refund policies.

Sony is the market leader in consoles at the moment. They shouldn't be getting away with these shady antics.

Penn

Xbox policy on digital refunds:
Can I get a refund for a digital game?

No. You can’t return a digital game and receive a refund or credit. However, if you have a damaged or corrupted digital game, you can receive credit.


Sony policy on digital refunds:
Digital content that you have started downloading, streaming and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.


I agree, let's call a spade a spade. They're both the same policy. They're both spades.

FAILSAFE 00

Penn wrote: »

Xbox policy on digital refunds:
Can I get a refund for a digital game?

No. You can’t return a digital game and receive a refund or credit. However, if you have a damaged or corrupted digital game, you can receive credit.


Sony policy on digital refunds:
Digital content that you have started downloading, streaming and in-game consumables that have been delivered, are not eligible for a refund unless the content is faulty.


I agree, let's call a spade a spade. They're both the same policy. They're both spades.

Interesting read. So, I am after clarifying with Microsoft support. They do allow refunds but it is done in a case by case basis. I'd like to see them update that into their policies and there is an Xbox feedback forum thread open to upvote that suggestion.

As many Xbox users on this thread have already verified they have got refunds for many games and Xbox services.

The only difference then I can see is Microsoft is extremely flexible in comparison to Sony when it comes to refunds and compromised account refunds.

Sony are way too rigid in enforcing their policy. Its terrible to hear the way some of their customers are being treated. One here recently accidentally purchased No mans sky along with another game and had not even opened the game when requesting the refund. After weeks of back and forth he only got credit back into his PSN account rather than a straight refund.

the groutch

Yeah, that's the crux of it.
They both have the same OFFICIAL policies, but at the moment Xbox are more likely to make exceptions.
Is it nice of them to be a bit more customer friendly? Yes, and I'd hope that Sony would change their ways and follow suit.
Would it be a major factor when deciding which console to buy a multiplat game on? Probably not, as it's no guarantee.

Kings Inns or bust

With any luck we'll eventually see the EU intervening. Consumer Issues is kinda one of their success stories tbh.

OP any idea who 'your' MEP is? Get writing!