Potential Employer finding out that I'm unemployed

Our Andy

Hi there folks. I have been unemployed for a couple of years and want to reenter the workforce. I intend to state on the CV that I am presently working (presumably a long gap would kill any chance of getting a job). The owner of the business that I am claiming to work for is willing to give a reference and backup my story (friend of a friend). However if I am offered a job don't I have to pass on a P45 form to the new employer? Presumably I wont have one for this year so will the employer find out that I am unemployed? Thanks for any feedback guys and girls.

jamo2oo9

jamo2oo9 wrote:

I'm not entirely sure, I thought I read somewhere before that airlines from outside the EU are allowed to make a scheduled stop in the EU but cannot pick up any passengers from that scheduled stop.

Nope. You just need to get your new employers registration number, ring the tax office and they will sort you out. You can tell your new job that you are waiting for your p45. It's common enough that it would take a few weeks for a p45 to be issued and your tax would already be sorted. No problem

fleet

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nope. You just need to get your new employers registration number, ring the tax office and they will sort you out. You can tell your new job that you are waiting for your p45. It's common enough that it would take a few weeks for a p45 to be issued and your tax would already be sorted. No problem

Not quite, if your new company is small and the boss is involved in payroll, then he might notice your remaining tax credits indicate no work this year.

davo10

It's not a great way to start out in a new job. If your new employer finds that you lied and provided a fake reference, expect to be let go immediately. Just be truthful, that way you won't have to remember the lies told, if the new employer starts to ask you details about your previous job or your experience, or their accountant notices issues with pay eg amount of tax credits or emergency tax being charged because you haven't worked, the game will quickly be up.

Glass fused light

You can contact the Revenue and get them to set you up under a new employer without a P45 just get the new employers registration number.

However my recommendation is don't start out on a big lie.

You would have to sign permission to allow your new employer to check references, this will normally the a true statement section too. So the lie is one which in most jobs would be a stackable offence if discovered

The employer would see it as a breach of trust. In a smaller business it's personal as you made a 'fool' out of who ever employed you.

Ireland is a very small place so if you start off on a lie you will spend all of your time hoping that no one you meet in the job figures it out and keeping your story straight. eg
knows you, knows someone who knows you,
knows your friend, knows someone who knows your friend,
someone who worked in the business and do on,
If your friend is willing to lie for you are they not willing to offer you a short term job (pay-free or jobbridge ), so that your next employer will be reassured, that they are not the first to take a chance with you.

_Brian

davo10 wrote: »

It's not a great way to start out in a new job. If your new employer finds that you lied and provided a fake reference, expect to be let go immediately. Just be truthful, that way you won't have to remember the lies told, if the new employer starts to ask you details about your previous job or your experience, or their accountant notices issues with pay eg amount of tax credits or emergency tax being charged because you haven't worked, the game will quickly be up.

I agree, this is a foolish, bordering on stupid move and likely to be found out. And it's not just a white lie on a CV, it's likely in interview you'd be asked extensively about your current employment and then the white lie will have to become an intricate web of lies.

Working with peers they're likely to ask about it too and the web of lies will extend to them.

As pointed out your tax will be out of whack and this is likely to be double checked by any competent admin or accountant.

There is no way you'd be kept on in any job if this level of deceit is discovered. Nobody wants a liar working for them, how could anything you say be trusted again.

Glass fused light

fleet wrote: »

Not quite, if your new company is small and the boss is involved in payroll, then he might notice your remaining tax credits indicate no work this year.

The tax credit letter is a one figure tax credit and Revenue will not tell the employer why.

It's been a very long since I did payroll so this may have changed.
Had received a new tax credit notice for an existing employee so phoned as it looked crazy wrong, the worry was once discovered the employee would be hit with a adjustment <if downward these usually came in in time for Christmas:mad:, and the Revenue quite rightly would not discuss how the credit was made up but checked, so ran the payroll and a note went into the payslip.

I think you have to specify that you don't want Revenue to disclose your past income and to adjust the tax credits on that basis?
Otherwise they sent out a normal tax credit and numbers to stick in the income and tax boxes.

dbagman

You could just say you were working cash in hand??

seamus

dbagman wrote: »

You could just say you were working cash in hand??

Potentially paints you as dishonest and not trustworthy.

Especially if you were supposed to be working in bank or something rather than a carpenter's

An unemployment gap on your CV is no longer the kiss of death it used to be.

Just fill in the gap with everything you did during the time, any courses you took, any volunteer work you might have done, no matter how small.

An employer just wants to know that you didn't spend the last 3 years watching Jeremy Kyle, smoking and and getting drunk.

If you can still talk at length about the last job you were in and the kind of work that you do, then there'll be no concern about your ability to pick it back up again.

As said above, whatever lie you come up with, you will potentially have to maintain for a couple of years. So it'll have grown from a slight lie to huge intricate story.

davo10

Glass fused light wrote: »

The tax credit letter is a one figure tax credit and Revenue will not tell the employer why.

It's been a very long since I did payroll so this may have changed.
Had received a new tax credit notice for an existing employee so phoned as it looked crazy wrong, the worry was once discovered the employee would be hit with a adjustment <if downward these usually came in in time for Christmas:mad:, and the Revenue quite rightly would not discuss how the credit was made up but checked, so ran the payroll and a note went into the payslip.

I think you have to specify that you don't want Revenue to disclose your past income and to adjust the tax credits on that basis?
Otherwise they sent out a normal tax credit and numbers to stick in the income and tax boxes.

When new employees have joined my business we have found that they are typically taxed at emergency rate until the tax credits etc are applied and then the tax is refunded. If there was a huge refund due to tax credits being applied at an unexpectedly high level for someone who is supposed to have been working, my accountant would notice and I would notice as I would have to pay the employee the outstanding amount in their next pay check. I would ask questions, so would any other employer or payroll department

Employers can request a P45 from a new employer, if they refuse to supply it, alarm bells ring.

fryup

don't do it, just don't

they'll respect you more if you're truthful ...because believe me..sooner or later they will find you out

Glass fused light

davo10 wrote: »

When new employees have joined my business we have found that they are typically taxed at emergency rate until the tax credits etc are applied and then the tax is refunded. If there was a huge refund due to tax credits being applied at an unexpectedly high level for someone who is supposed to have been working, my accountant would notice and I would notice as I would have to pay the employee the outstanding amount in their next pay check. I would ask questions, so would any other employer or payroll department

Employers can request a P45 from a new employer, if they refuse to supply it, alarm bells ring.

From memory new employees must always be taxed at Week 1 emergency rate even if you have the P45 until you get the Revenue tax credit. ( I don't remember if this was a change in Revenue policy or was just best pratice in the job). In the OP's case assuming that s/he is on assistance this would be income with no P45, so Revenue issue a letter with the income X and the tax nil as well as the tax credit.

The employee could ask Revenue to keep them on Week 1, so they are paying the correct tax, but due a refund which they can reclaim themselves by filing at year end.

OP if you are getting back into the workforce I would suggest the you get all the help you can from the Government back to work schemes.

And start by looking for short term contract roles, having someone who is immediately available, and who can take instruction and has a little cop-on can be more important than current work experience.

newcar2016

I can see why the Op would want to tell this fib story. Why would an employer take on someone who hasn't worked or studied in years

intheclouds

Dont do this - its a terrible idea.

If you need a cover story for a long period of unemployment, caring for a sick close relative is the one least likely to attract questions.

secondrowgal

As an employer I can tell you that you would be out the door faster than RoadRunner if I found out that you had lied to me!

I wouldn't have any problem with a gap on a CV. You can say it was a career break (if it was) or that you took time off for personal/family reasons, which has since resolved, moved on, etc., and that you are now ready and willing to throw yourself back into the workforce and give 100%. I'd be fine with that to be honest and if you were the right person for the job, you'd be in.

On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me the amount of threads on here where people want to lie to their employer! It's a terrible way to start any relationship - professional or personal, and there is just no need for it.

livedadream

newcar2016 wrote: »

I can see why the Op would want to tell this fib story. Why would an employer take on someone who hasn't worked or studied in years

a career break,
travelling
raising kids
caring for a sick person
being ill yourself.

theres a million reasons for someone having a gap on a CV.

sure back in the day it was seen as something bad, its not like that anymore.

no one is that small minded anymore.

there was this massive recession there a few years ago, you might remember, some people couldn't get a job if they tried... teachers, nurses, engineers etc all unemployed.

intheclouds

newcar2016 wrote: »

I can see why the Op would want to tell this fib story. Why would an employer take on someone who hasn't worked or studied in years

Um - are you aware we have just come out of a massive recession and CV gaps due to unemployment are totally normal?

There may be many other reasons why someone has a CV gap:
Study
Travel
Caring for a relation
Illness
Living off redundancy payment and no need to work for a bit
Having children
Raising children

A CV gap is no big deal - lying about one is.

newcar2016

livedadream wrote: »

a career break,
travelling
raising kids
caring for a sick person
being ill yourself.

theres a million reasons for someone having a gap on a CV.

sure back in the day it was seen as something bad, its not like that anymore.

no one is that small minded anymore.

there was this massive recession there a few years ago, you might remember, some people couldn't get a job if they tried... teachers, nurses, engineers etc all unemployed.

intheclouds wrote: »

Um - are you aware we have just come out of a massive recession and CV gaps due to unemployment are totally normal?

There may be many other reasons why someone has a CV gap:
Study
Travel
Caring for a relation
Illness
Living off redundancy payment and no need to work for a bit
Having children
Raising children

A CV gap is no big deal - lying about one is.

Trust me, I know. I worked in construction, retrained to another industry, left the country, everything.

I'm just saying that the harsh reliaty may be that an employer would prefer someone who has worked or at least studied.So a CV gap is a big deal.

Op needs to have some of a story and you can empathise with that. But perhaps an alternative to a make believe employer would be better.

livedadream

newcar2016 wrote: »

Trust me, I know. I worked in construction, retrained to another industry, left the country, everything.

I'm just saying that the harsh reliaty may be that an employer would prefer someone who has worked or at least studied. Op needs to have some of a story and you can empathise with that. But perhaps an alternative to a make believe employer would be better.

and your entitled to your opinion but as an employer i disagree, i would never judge someone who was out of work for a valid reason.

anything is better than lying. it comes back to bite you in the ass.

gandalf

TBH I am current looking for a new position having finished a contract back at the end of Feb. I assume you have been doing something constructive with your time during the period you have been out of work. Most employers understand that people have been out of work because of the recession, yes some do judge you but tbh you probably wouldn't want to work for some one like that anyway.

If you start off your new job based on a lie and the employer finds out then you will probably be let go. The most important thing is that you build trust with your new employer and starting off a relationship based on such a blatant lie will almost guarantee a very strained time and probable parting.

newcar2016

livedadream wrote: »

and your entitled to your opinion but as an employer i disagree, i would never judge someone who was out of work for a valid reason.

anything is better than lying. it comes back to bite you in the ass.

True, maybe I am just being paranoid about the CV gap.

ted1

Don't start with a lie. Also AFAIK there are PRSI breaks available to the employer for taking someone on who has bee off work a while

curiousoranje

Can you say you worked up til last December and then took a career break/went traveling etc til now? no hassle with P45 or anything then.

Despite what many folk seem to say here, the employment market here is still very tough and if an employer/hr goon has a choice of interviewing a person with a few years CV gap or a person who doesn't, they're more likely to choose the person with no gap.

livedadream

curiousoranje wrote: »

Despite what many folk seem to say here, the employment market here is still very tough and if an employer/hr goon has a choice of interviewing a person with a few years CV gap or a person who doesn't, they're more likely to choose the person with no gap.

thats not true, there are a few HR goons as you call them posting here who have all said not to lie and that it wont make a difference.

for anyone in doubt read this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057646991

Senna

ted1 wrote: »

Don't start with a lie. Also AFAIK there are PRSI breaks available to the employer for taking someone on who has bee off work a while

Forgot about that, there is incentives to employ people who have been on the dole for longer than 12 months.
I remember getting a CV in and on the cover letter the girl stated how the scheme worked and even stated how much we would get (I think it was €7k). She wasn't suitable for the role, but I bet she got employed quickly.

curiousoranje

I've acquaintances who were caught out by recession and had 3/4 years on SW until CV's were changed and more up to date experience /reference was provided thanks to a willing friend who runs her own business, similar to OP.

Before that most of them couldn't even get a look in for an interview because of large gap in work history.

pillphil

There's a scheme called JobsPlus that if both you and the employer qualify, pays the employer a certain amount (€7,500 over 2 years if you've been unemployed 12 months & €10,000 over 2 years if you've been unemployed over 24 months)
May be some use.

Mr McBoatface

If you're on jobseekers allowance for those 2 years you qualify for a 10 thousand euro tax/prsi reduction for your employer over a 2 year period. You can apply for it here https://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/secure/jobsplus-employee.aspx . It takes a few weeks for the DSP to check and send you a letter confirming the reduction. It's a great thing to have ready for any interview or include in your CV. It may actually give you an edge over others who are currently working.

There are plenty of reasons for being unemployed that are legitimate that wouldn't concern employers, a 10 thousand tax reductions helps a lot in getting ride of any concerns.

ZeroThreat

secondrowgal wrote: »

As an employer I can tell you that you would be out the door faster than RoadRunner if I found out that you had lied to me!

I wouldn't have any problem with a gap on a CV. You can say it was a career break (if it was) or that you took time off for personal/family reasons, which has since resolved, moved on, etc., and that you are now ready and willing to throw yourself back into the workforce and give 100%. I'd be fine with that to be honest and if you were the right person for the job, you'd be in.

On a side note, it never ceases to amaze me the amount of threads on here where people want to lie to their employer! It's a terrible way to start any relationship - professional or personal, and there is just no need for it.

Too many dishonest employees in this country trying to rip off their employers in my view.

Cheerful Spring

curiousoranje wrote: »

Can you say you worked up til last December and then took a career break/went traveling etc til now? no hassle with P45 or anything then.

Despite what many folk seem to say here, the employment market here is still very tough and if an employer/hr goon has a choice of interviewing a person with a few years CV gap or a person who doesn't, they're more likely to choose the person with no gap.

Very true. Its a shame some people have to try this to be given a job and make a living. The economy only started been better in the last year or two, so for me employers should least try taking on people who have been unemployed for the last few years or more. If they did that, we would not see this nonsense where people feel the need to lie on their CV.

ZeroThreat

Cheerful Spring wrote: »

Very true. Its a shame some people have to try this to be given a job and make a living. The economy only started been better in the last year or two, so for me employers should least try taking on people who have been unemployed for the last few years or more. If they did that, we would not see this nonsense where people feel the need to lie on their CV.

It's an employer's market, get over it.:rolleyes:

How can people not know how to change it to something more positive and not lie, my husband had a few year of a sabbatical due to the down turn in the construction industry, he wasn't unemployed :pac:, not having worked for two years made not difference to him getting another job, employers are not stupid they know there has been a rescission.

Don't lie, but re framing it a bit is alright.

A lot of these supposed stigmas are in the individual head and have no bases in reality.

SCOOP 64

Op said unemployed for 2 years cant see a reason to lie over 2 years after courtry just recovery from a recession which started in 2008, i think most employers would appreciate this, pointless lying.