Will ZV numbers continue for 30 year old cars post 2017

carchaeologist

I do wonder with the grade A muppets in the registration dept if 1987 cars and beyond will be issued ZV numbers. They shouldn't be historically, but I have no doubt they will.
Any views on this?

Testacalda

I was discusing this with a friend earlier this year and was also wondering what will happen.

By right the issusing of ZV should be kept to 1986 and older. The original point of the current ZV reg system, for older cars when imported or re registered, was to maintain an original style registration number that would be in keeping with the era of the car, ie 6 digits on the plate made up of letters and numbers. That era ends in december 1986.

The revised numbering system for registration of imports in the past few years already did away with the 6 digit ZV plates for many counties therefore eliminating one of the key reasons for the ZVs introduction in the first place :rolleyes:

Am I right in thinking that there are a few 'original Irish' ZV registrations that were issued in Dublin through the old system, from 1985 and 1986. Anyone who owns one must be annoyed with being branded with all the 'new' ZV regs

Silvera

I too agree that ZV plates should not issue to any vehicle first registered (in any country) before 31-12-86. It would be nonsensical to have a ZV plate on an '87 vehicle?!

As regards 'original' ZV plates, the letters 'ZV' (alone) were not issued prior to the introduction of 'vintage' ZV plates in 1992.

The letters 'ZV' were used in conjunction with other letters prior to (1992) 1987 - see the pic of the Rolls Royce in the thread below with the reg 'GZV 7' as one example.

See post #2490 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057232142&page=166

alpha13

Silvera wrote: »

As regards 'original' ZV plates, the letters 'ZV' (alone) were not issued prior to the introduction of 'vintage' ZV plates in 1992.

The letters 'ZV' were used in conjunction with other letters prior to (1992) 1987 - see the pic of the Rolls Royce in the thread below with the reg 'GZV 7' as one example.

See post #2490 - http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057232142&page=166

i dont think you right on that.. i remember zv being used with just numbers in the 80's possibly end of 70's they were for dublin..just like li was westmeath and si was also dublin!!!

Silvera

ZV (on its own) was never used prior to 1992.

When three-letter/three number combinations started running low in Dublin in c.1985, the powers-that-be released unused two-letter combinations for use in Dublin, namely ZS, SI and ZV. In the event ZV wasnt used - as 'new-style' registrations were introduced on 1-1-87.

This left the letters 'ZV' available for use as 'vintage' registrations from 1992-onwards.

carchaeologist

Off the top of my head the collective S.I.s for SI, ZG, SI and ZV and their three letter/number derivatives were issued in about 1981. This was due to Dublin rapidly running out of numbers at the time. None of these series were part of the original 1903 issues.

AZV-YZV, ASI-ZSI, AZS-YZS, AZG-YZG, were all issued first in the 80s, with SI, ZG and ZS then bring issued in 1986, in direct opposition to the original way of doing things(always was LLNNNN first then LLLNNN subsequently)
ZS8709 was the last old series number issue at the changeover. ZVNNNN was to have been the next series up, but it wasn't used, and in 1992 that series became the age related series for older than 30 years imported cars.
When this began to run out around 2005, the pen pushers, who haven't a clue just added an extra number to easily give a huge amount of extra numbers at the cost of looking completely incorrect on the plate. I suspect this was done to copy what's was done with the ZZ series, but it's a complete different thing.
What should have been done is another unused series, of which there is a few available should have been used, but as we know already nobody that's in charge has a clue about these things.

That was bad enough but then they went and completely messed up the year plates too! Who wants something like 53D120000 or 67KY10000 on a car that never would have had more than six number and letters on its plate.

The lack of a decent age related registration option in Irelsnd has contributed massively to the enormous amount of old cars now illegally registered with older tax books from scrap cars.

savagethegoat

carchaeologist wrote: »

Off the top of my head the collective S.I.s for SI, ZG, SI and ZV and their three letter/number derivatives were issued in about 1981. This was due to Dublin rapidly running out of numbers at the time. None of these series were part of the original 1903 issues.

AZV-YZV, ASI-ZSI, AZS-YZS, AZG-YZG, were all issued first in the 80s, with SI, ZG and ZS then bring issued in 1986, in direct opposition to the original way of doing things(always was LLNNNN first then LLLNNN subsequently)
ZS8709 was the last old series number issue at the changeover. ZVNNNN was to have been the next series up, but it wasn't used, and in 1992 that series became the age related series for older than 30 years imported cars.
When this began to run out around 2005, the pen pushers, who haven't a clue just added an extra number to easily give a huge amount of extra numbers at the cost of looking completely incorrect on the plate. I suspect this was done to copy what's was done with the ZZ series, but it's a complete different thing.
What should have been done is another unused series, of which there is a few available should have been used, but as we know already nobody that's in charge has a clue about these things.

That was bad enough but then they went and completely messed up the year plates too! Who wants something like 53D120000 or 67KY10000 on a car that never would have had more than six number and letters on its plate.

The lack of a decent age related registration option in Irelsnd has contributed massively to the enormous amount of old cars now illegally registered with older tax books from scrap cars.

hear hear to the last bit, although I'd say they aren't actually registered at all, merely wearing plates that don't belong to them and are therefore not insured

hi5

Any vehicle over 30 years is entitled to a ZV reg, no mention of pre 87.
Unless they change the rule before the end of the year it will continue on..

swarlb

why would anyone want to put ZV plates on a post '87 car. The idea behind ZV plates was to give a 'period' look to cars that had similar styled plates in the first instance. Car from '87 and beyond only ever had year identification anyway, so putting a ZV plate on a post '87 car is a bit pointless....
As it stands you are given a choice....I cannot see them 'forcing' people to choose ZV, when they don't at present.

Silvera

Indeed ..why would anybody want to put a ZV plate on an 87 car?!
However, as we all know, there are lots of people out there who don't know otherwise / don't care / think they are being clever who WILL opt for a ZV plate...GIVEN THE CHOICE!

And that is the key...they shouldn't be given the choice!.

Where does the IVVCC stand on this I wonder? They are the people best positioned to speak to the powers-that-be to initiate the changes ....in fact while they are at it they could push for a replacement 'age related' series!!

Dades

Silvera wrote: »

Indeed ..why would anybody want to put a ZV plate on an 87 car?!

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

savagethegoat

swarlb wrote: »

why would anyone want to put ZV plates on a post '87 car. The idea behind ZV plates was to give a 'period' look to cars that had similar styled plates in the first instance. Car from '87 and beyond only ever had year identification anyway, so putting a ZV plate on a post '87 car is a bit pointless....
As it stands you are given a choice....I cannot see them 'forcing' people to choose ZV, when they don't at present.

I don't think that was the idea at all. If it was they would have given them numbers in a genuine old style and series.

porsche boy

Dades wrote:

Some people just want to watch the world burn.

This is totally different, the chassis under that 1990's disco is from a 70's defender. Some clever lad in Tipperary figured they were interchangeable and has made an absolute packet. Does look a bit odd mind.

911s

porsche boy wrote: »

This is totally different, the chassis under that 1990's disco is from a 70's defender. Some clever lad in Tipperary figured they were interchangeable and has made an absolute packet. Does look a bit odd mind.

Quite an easy conversion, only need a set of letter stamps.

carchaeologist

911s wrote: »

Quite an easy conversion, only need a set of letter stamps.

We are getting away from the original subject here.
The chassis swap issue is well debated by now.

Regarding the IVVCC, I don't know how much of a difference they really make.
If they did there surely wouldn't be such a mess with age related plates already.

macplaxton

hi5 wrote: »

Any vehicle over 30 years is entitled to a ZV reg, no mention of pre 87.
Unless they change the rule before the end of the year it will continue on..

Exactly this. Legislation amendment required.

Tigger

macplaxton wrote: »

Exactly this. Legislation amendment required.

While I get that it's silly to let 87- cars have a zv I'd leave it if it were up to me
Old fast cars on joe Duffy springs to mind

Wishbone Ash

Slightly off topic but if someone wishes to register a vehicle from say 1910 and doesn't wish to have a ZV plate, what happens? Surely it can't be 10 D xxxx (or whatever county?).

carchaeologist

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

Slightly off topic but if someone wishes to register a vehicle from say 1910 and doesn't wish to have a ZV plate, what happens? Surely it can't be 10 D xxxx (or whatever county?).

10D120001 or above or the county equivalent.

Silvera

carchaeologist wrote: »

Regarding the IVVCC, I don't know how much of a difference they really make. If they did there surely wouldn't be such a mess with age related plates already.

That's a valid point. However, they are the 'official FIVA representative' of the 'old car movement' in Ireland and best-placed to seek / negotiate the changes required to the 'vintage' registration system.

It appears they havent the interest / will / knowledge / personnel required to seek such changes?!

Silvera

carchaeologist wrote: »

10D120001 or above or the county equivalent.

"I'm sorry sir, that registration is already taken by a 2010 Ford Mondeo...how about a lovely (and equally inappropriate seven digit) 'ZV nnnnn' registration number for your 1910 vehicle?!" :rolleyes:
https://www.cartell.ie/ssl/servlet/beginStarLookup?registration=10d120001

carchaeologist

Silvera wrote: »

"I'm sorry sir, that registration is already taken by a 2010 Ford Mondeo...how about a lovely (and equally inappropriate seven digit) 'ZV nnnnn' registration number for your 1910 vehicle?!" :rolleyes:
https://www.cartell.ie/ssl/servlet/beginStarLookup?registration=10d120001

Aaah!
I forgot about the crossover to modern!!
How does this pan out for the older(pre 1913) stuff? Not that there will be much call for registrations of that era, but there must be provision for them, and also to be correct to the appropriate century!

macplaxton

carchaeologist wrote: »

How does this pan out for the older(pre 1913) stuff?

We've been here before (6 years back, see below) carchaeologist, It's an arse.



http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056065339

macplaxton wrote: »

03-C-20 1903 De Dion Bouton Single

(It's a London - Brighton 2010 entrant)Edited with another picture to fix old broken link
04-C-6 1904 Clement Bayard
09-KE-20 1909 Hupmobile 20HP
09-W-20 1909 Star 2 Seater

Tiger31

A long shot here ...... Would anyone advise how to identify the reg no of a vintage car, legally imported and taxed in Dublin, but documentation and plates lost.

The reg would be in the ZG or ZS range. Model and chassis numbers available.

carchaeologist

10C3 must have been registered pre 1992, as it would be in the 20s, as is the case with most of the other examples shown, if registered after that?

Silvera

Here's an interesting situation I came across regarding possible duplication..

I observed a photo of this number plate for a vintage vehicle some years ago in a book - '03 WX 1'

However, a cartell check shows it's now issued to a 2003 Ford Focus saloon (and I actually spotted this car near Wexford in recent times).

It would be interesting to know if this is a case of 'duplication' or was the vintage vehicle exported and the reg re-issued in 2003?

macplaxton

carchaeologist wrote: »

10C3 must have been registered pre 1992, as it would be in the 20s, as is the case with most of the other examples shown, if registered after that?

Wouldn't it be in the 20s for everyone but those paying the (350/1000) to the taxman for a reserved number?

carchaeologist

macplaxton wrote: »

Wouldn't it be in the 20s for everyone but those paying the (350/1000) to the taxman for a reserved number?

It would between 1992 and late 2011, pre 92/post 86 it was next number up from number 1 for all.
Reserved numbers are a different case, and cars like 14C14 are another matter again.

carchaeologist

carchaeologist wrote: »

10C3 must have been registered pre 1992, as it would be in the 20s, as is the case with most of the other examples shown, if registered after that?

Just thinking though, as I do when I have the time... if this was pre 1992, why would it be 10C3, not 10C1 or 10C2, 10C4 is a Buick model 14, and then nothing.
I suspect 10C3 was registered post 1992 for the following reasons...
New registrations between 1992 and 2011 started at #201, apart from special orders, which incidentally could be retrospectively applied for but that's another story! I wonder was it anticipated that the mayoral car would be 10C1 as all mayoral cars since 1992 were #1 registrations and they had no other plans made for the impending crossover at that time so issued 10C3 to allow for this knowing that the general issues would begin at #201 regardless.

hi5

In most counties it seems to have gone from 1 to 20 to 500 and then in 2011 it went to nutty numbers:)

The funny thing is I registered a 1965 car in 2006 and got a 500 number but someone I know registered a 1951 car 2 years later and got a 20 number (same county)

savagethegoat

Silvera wrote: »

Here's an interesting situation I came across regarding possible duplication..

I observed a photo of this number plate for a vintage vehicle some years ago in a book - '03 WX 1'

However, a cartell check shows it's now issued to a 2003 Ford Focus saloon (and I actually spotted this car near Wexford in recent times).

It would be interesting to know if this is a case of 'duplication' or was the vintage vehicle exported and the reg re-issued in 2003?

another possibility is it was a plate concocted for the photo or indeed photoshopped.

macplaxton

hi5 wrote: »

The funny thing is I registered a 1965 car in 2006 and got a 500 number but someone I know registered a 1951 car 2 years later and got a 20 number (same county)

Nothing funny about that. Dublin issues were 20> for anything up to 1962. 1963 onwards was 800>

If it was the same year as well as county, I'd see your point.

carchaeologist

hi5 wrote: »

In most counties it seems to have gone from 1 to 20 to 500 and then in 2011 it went to nutty numbers:)

The funny thing is I registered a 1965 car in 2006 and got a 500 number but someone I know registered a 1951 car 2 years later and got a 20 number (same county)

Right, and this is also very complicated too...but from my research on this...
Pre 1963 year cars or thereabouts it seems most counties jumped to #20 in the 1992 jump.
For post 1963 cars most counties appeared to have jumped to #500, although some seemed to have jumped to #800, and it seems to depend on the year, and number of cars registered already previously pre 1992.
In 2011 it all jumped again to telephone numbers.

It's ridiculous how complicated it has become, and how many hundreds of suitable low numbers were never used because some clown in an office made a mess of it.
Where are the IVVCC when all this was being done.

macplaxton

carchaeologist wrote: »

to allow for this knowing

Knowing? Ha ha ha.

macplaxton

carchaeologist wrote: »

although some seemed to have jumped to #800, and it seems to depend on the year, and number of cars registered already previously pre 1992.

In addition to general 800> for Dublin 1963 to 1984.

1985 and 1986 appear to be from 8000.

Silvera

carchaeologist wrote: »

It's ridiculous how complicated it has become, and how many hundreds of suitable low numbers were never used because some clown in an office made a mess of it.
Where are the IVVCC when all this was being done.

It gets better (worse!)?!:rolleyes:

I just had this confirmed today..

The powers-that-be have changed the rules (in November 2015 to be exact) so that now only registrations for NEW vehicles can be reserved?!!!

They have effectively 'locked-off' hundreds (thousands?) of cherished / nice / low numbers that many vehicle owners would be willing to pay for. Just one example (off the top of my head) ..say a person importing a 1990's era Porsche 911 (now, or in years to come) - they can no longer select the following unissued plates -

93-WX-911
94-WX-911
95-WX-911
96-WX-911
97-WX-911
98-WX-911
(such unissued plates can easily be confirmed via cartell.ie)

Baffling?! The state is effectively saying 'No' to people willing to pay for particular plates?!

carchaeologist

You could retrospectively use/buy an unissued low number on an imported car until 2011 at least.
02C15 is one such registration, the number was issued many years after.
I think they stopped that at the changeover in 2011.