Min wage jobs and work standards/expectations

Escapees

I used to work in what some might call a professional job for years but gave it up for a better life and have since been working in various casual jobs on min wage. I'd be a bit older then than most of my work colleagues who'd be in their 20s. Anyway, the following are things that are really getting my goat but I'm wondering is it just the norm nowadays for min wage jobs?

- Workers regularly coming to work 5 mins late but signing in at the time when they were actually meant to start at
- Above workers going to the toilet immediately upon clocking in
- Above workers getting changed into work clothes (their own and not a uniform or anything) after clocking in
- Workers taking time out every 10/15mins to check their phones and regularly sending texts and Facebook messages to buddies
- Workers disappearing on supposed toilet breaks (often grabbing their phone en-route!) throughout the day at the most inappropriate times (i.e. when it's crazy busy versus 5 mins earlier when things were slack or 5 mins later when it would be calm again)
- Workers getting changed after work into their casual clothes and only clocking out afterwards, and ALWAYS rounding up to the nearest 5 mins if you know what I mean

I feel like a bit of a twat always turning up to work (and ready to start) a few mins early, not going near my mobile for the day and only going to the toilet once or twice during the working day, usually on my lunch break. The above carry-on would never have been tolerated in my past line of work nor even back in my school days - I.e. you had to ready for classes at 9am and only finished school when the bell sounded at the end of the day. Never did the first class start and half the students then suddenly have to go to the toilets etc! And as for mobile phones, don't get me started!

To me, the issue seems on the surface of it to simply be bad management in the different jobs that I've worked in here. But it's really starting to seem like this is totally the norm in the area - i.e. it's the same with all the businesses and jobs in the vicinity. So am I just out of touch and is all of this commonplace nowadays, maybe more so in min wage jobs obviously?!! Or maybe I'm just getting older and crankier...

Kings Inns or bust

If the workers are on minimum wage you can expect their supervisors to be on not much more. It's just the businesses allowing staff to get away with it. You should have tried working in these jobs during the Celtic Tiger, I was in retail then at store manager level, OMG. One lad I let alone doing something for 45 minutes. It involved sticking some stuff together with velcro. For the better part of 45 mins he'd been trying to stick the two fuzzy bits together. He would have had to pull the velcro apart off the roll... In my experience if you're hiring locally South Dublin is much worse.

As for phones that's impossible to change these days without firing people. If people are willing to potentially kill someone over a text/call driving the workplace has no chance.

Aint Eazy Being Cheezy

I've found things to be the opposite. Not that the min wage employees were models of professionalism, just that the employers weren't squeaky clean either.

I was employed direct, but the general operatives worked through an agency. They were entitled to none of the perks we got such as flexi time, membership of the sports and social club, health insurance. They were kept on 11 month contracts, trained in their own replacement a week before they left, and thanks & goodbye. If they were good, they could return after 3 months I think it was, for another 11 month stint. If they weren't able to adapt fast enough, they could be let go any time.

If that's the attitude that's filtering down, we don't care about you, then why would they be bothered about the job?

fin12

Minimum pay, minimum work.

Mrs OBumble

If you're in a minimum wage job, you need to worry about your own work and keep your nose out of everyone elses.

Personally I worked harder in a 22k per year job during the recession than I have had to for years. Once I went back to a 40k+ job, life got a lot easier.

Speedwell

The only difference between minimum wage workers and corporate workers on salary is that when the corporate workers do those things (and boy, do they ever do them), nobody really cares. I advise you to save your breath.

Escapees

Interesting stuff. FYI, I am located in a rural area so all the businesses here would be relatively small (5 to 20 employees). And staff here are by no means exploited or treated badly, if anything it's the opposite. I think that could be where the problem lies - the employers are probably terrified that the staff might move on and can't then be replaced. Of course, the irony is that all the businesses seem to be over-staffed because of the poor work ethic everywhere!

In terms of keeping my nose out of other staff's business, the bottom line is that it is my business since it affects me in terms of keeping the ship afloat while others are on the doss. And the 'if you can't beat them, join them' approach won't work either as despite the fact we're all on the same wage, I am naturally treated differently because of my older age. I challenge anyone to work in this sort of environment, bearing in mind there's no chance of promotion etc. Sorry for sounding moody, but just back from another day at work!!!

livedadream

it could be a hundred different reasons, like most i worked minimum wage jobs growing up and did all those things you listed.

barr the mobile phone really coz they didnt exist as much.
my personal favourite in a bar i worked in was volunteering to change the kegs, you could drag that out for a good 20 mins.

it could be a motivation thing,
a generation thing,
the compay
the people they hire
loads of different variables,

not everyone takes their job so seriously. and its not just casual work, ive a guy in my office who strolls in outside core hours and seems to thing no one notices when he leaves at 5 with everyone who came in at 8.

Mrs OBumble

Escapees wrote: »

In terms of keeping my nose out of other staff's business, the bottom line is that it is my business since it affects me in terms of keeping the ship afloat while others are on the doss.

Sorry, but since when as keeping the ship afloat been the responsibility of a minimum wage worker???

You need to do your job, according to what expectations your manager has of you. Nothing else.


A thought - do you know who's related to who? It's likely that this factors highly in terms of what behaviour is acceptable.

Senna

Never on time, very often 30mintes late in the morning.
Late for Meeting, no excuse.
On mobile constantly.
Doesn't answer questions.


Guess which the above is, a minimum wage worker, or the director of my department??

doolox

The higher up the food chain you are the more you can get away with.

The fact is that is any job the most junior and least paid are more vulnerable and so the most work can be extracted from them. As people move up the ladder of promotion they become more skilled and less easily replaced and managers may have to allow them more lee way in their behaviours than the newbie.

The middle rankers have it worst, taking abuse from both bottom and top and under pressure all the time. The trick is to spend as little time as possible in the middle ranks and get promoted as if your life depended on it because it does in a way, your mental health is in trouble if you spend too long in the middle ranks of any organisation.

Minimum wage jobs can be seen as a step up from the dole and every job like that should have a clearly laid out and realistic path of progression up towards more lucrative earnings. Otherwise people lose hope and go on the doss and married ones leave as soon as dole for kids and dependants pays more than the minimum wage.

experiMental

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys

OP: it doesn't sound so bad. At least people are coming into work. Last Wednesday, I was in Italy and a tourist information office was closed at 2 p.m, when a notice board clearly said that it should always be open at that time!

I think everyone understands that the key to work is providing high quality service to customers rather than clocking in and leaving on time, especially in retail. It could be different in factory environment and call centres.

Does your management report success of your workplace every month? For example, how many goals were reached? If not, they really should. Then everyone would see which actions that they are taking are driving business.

Letree

The working day is long enough don't begrudge min wage workers a little relief.

BreadnBuddha

Letree wrote: »

The working day is long enough don't begrudge min wage workers a little relief.

They're paid to work.

Speedwell

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

They're paid to work.

Yeah, and so is everyone else. Your point?

BreadnBuddha

Speedwell wrote: »

Yeah, and so is everyone else. Your point?

My point is whether it's minimum wage or not, they're there to work. So they should work, not doss. They applied for and accepted the position at a wage they agreed to, so just because they might want to earn more doesn't mean they can slack off.

The OP describes a load of messers who should be replaced with people who actually want to work, instead of a bunch of lazy employees who think they're entitled to do something other than work, just because they're earning minimum wage.

I detest the whole concept of minimum wage. Work a fair day, get paid a fair day. Slack off, get sacked. The system in the US is 10 times better than the crap employers and hard working employees have to put up with in Irish workplaces. At least in many states there it's possible to ditch a dosser, leaving more employment and hours for people who get their heads down and get on with the job.

Speedwell

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

The system in the US is 10 times better than the crap employers and hard working employees have to put up with in Irish workplaces. At least in many states there it's possible to ditch a dosser, leaving more employment and hours for people who get their heads down and get on with the job.

If only it was that effective in practice. My life would have been quite a bit different. Oh, and the minimum wage is effectively half there of what it is here, or even less, once you count social benefits.

BreadnBuddha

Speedwell wrote: »

If only it was that effective in practice. My life would have been quite a bit different. Oh, and the minimum wage is effectively half there of what it is here, or even less, once you count social benefits.

If only, indeed. I'm not sure what advice anyone can offer to the OP to be fair. Ignore them and get on with his/her own job I suppose.

Speedwell

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

If only, indeed. I'm not sure what advice anyone can offer to the OP to be fair. Ignore them and get on with his/her own job I suppose.

Yeah, I hear you. My old therapist in the US said to me once, "you see what you look for". An old boss once said, "you clearly aren't busy enough if you have time to complain about how other people do jobs that aren't yours". If the OP has so much free time that he can sit around watching other people loaf, then maybe the issue is not with the workers but with the fact that they aren't being used effectively.

Letree

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

They're paid to work.

Paid peanut's yeah. Hardly worth busting themselves for. Do a fair days work but no more. Everybody and I mean everybody dosses a little over the 8 hr day. Cut the working day to 6 hours and then I'd agree with busting yourself.

BreadnBuddha

Letree wrote: »

Paid peanut's yeah. Hardly worth busting themselves for. Do a fair days work but no more. Everybody and I mean everybody dosses a little over the 8 hr day. Cut the working day to 6 hours and then I'd agree with busting yourself.

Busting yourself? No.

Pricking around checking your phone, going for smoke breaks, toilet breaks, coffee breaks, post weekend sports chats.... Clocking in 15 minutes before they start and out 15 minutes after they finish?

Show them the door if you can. Good riddance. Minimum wage or not.

Letree

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

Busting yourself? No.

Pricking around checking your phone, going for smoke breaks, toilet breaks, coffee breaks, post weekend sports chats.... Clocking in 15 minutes before they start and out 15 minutes after they finish?

Show them the door if you can. Good riddance. Minimum wage or not.

I know toilet breaks outrageous. Maybe they could wear adult nappies like some of the slave driving production lines in the American meat factories.

boardsuser1

Was offered a job last monday.
45 hours a week driving an artic.
Wages are €9.25 per hour.
that industry will crash and burn yet if this keeps up.
No wonder i'm debating leaving it.

BreadnBuddha

KC161 wrote: »

Was offered a job last monday.
45 hours a week driving an artic.
Wages are €9.25 per hour.
that industry will crash and burn yet if this keeps up.
No wonder i'm debating leaving it.

In total agreement. It's ludicrous to pay a skilled worker who has experience and is trusted with hundreds of thousands if not millions of euro worth of goods and machinery the same as someone who sits at a desk licking stamps or whatever.

Ridiculous stuff altogether. That kind of wage is piddling for an artic driver. When you consider how the drivers wage is probably the lowest cost element, there's simply NO justification for it.

If you're not in management, and the workers with these bad habits are your peers, then I'd really suggest that it's not your concern. So what if someone shows up 5 mins late and then goes to the toilet, what impact does this have on you?

Senna

Jaylee Zealous Comma wrote: »

If you're not in management, and the workers with these bad habits are your peers, then I'd really suggest that it's not your concern. So what if someone shows up 5 mins late and then goes to the toilet, what impact does this have on you?

I'm guessing if his peers are not pulling their weight it means more work falls on his shoulders. Yes that's managements responsibility, staff slacking off in an office environment might not affect other staff, but in retails, service industry, etc, it has a huge effect on the other staff working alongside the wasters and its not as easy to quantify. If said member of staff leaves for 5 minutes, it doesn't seem an issue, but if that's the 5 minutes when there is 4 customers waiting to be served, the other staff members work and stress double.

SCOOP 64

Dont think op mention were he worked, wondered if theres any jobs going ?

CruelCoin

KC161 wrote: »

Was offered a job last monday.
45 hours a week driving an artic.
Wages are €9.25 per hour.
that industry will crash and burn yet if this keeps up.
No wonder i'm debating leaving it.

How will it crash and burn?

There is no shortage of people wanting to work for that.

We use a haulage company as overflow and there is a never ending sea of new faces.

boardsuser1

CruelCoin wrote: »

KC161 wrote: »

Was offered a job last monday.
45 hours a week driving an artic.
Wages are 9.25 per hour.
that industry will crash and burn yet if this keeps up.
No wonder i'm debating leaving it.

How will it crash and burn?

There is no shortage of people wanting to work for that.

We use a haulage company as overflow and there is a never ending sea of new faces.

The fact new face's keep turning up is a bad sign. Any company paying good money should be able to keep onto their drivers. The only other reason people would do it for that money is to get experience and move on to better paid driving work. Which is out there with the words "min. 1-2 years experience necessary" for example.

CruelCoin

KC161 wrote: »

The fact new face's keep turning up is a bad sign. Any company paying good money should be able to keep onto their drivers. The only other reason people would do it for that money is to get experience and move on to better paid driving work. Which is out there with the words "min. 1-2 years experience necessary" for example.

It's been that way for years. They've a 60 man driving crew, and at a single truckload a day, it would only be natural not to see the same faces all the time.

That notwithstanding, i don't see how the industry is crashing and burning? Haulage is still available, drivers are still plentiful, etc? It looks to be in rude health.

boardsuser1

CruelCoin wrote: »

KC161 wrote: »

The fact new face's keep turning up is a bad sign. Any company paying good money should be able to keep onto their drivers. The only other reason people would do it for that money is to get experience and move on to better paid driving work. Which is out there with the words "min. 1-2 years experience necessary" for example.

It's been that way for years. They've a 60 man driving crew, and at a single truckload a day, it would only be natural not to see the same faces all the time.

That notwithstanding, i don't see how the industry is crashing and burning? Haulage is still available, drivers are still plentiful, etc? It looks to be in rude health.

Are we one about just one company? Look up various sites such as adverts.ie or jobs.ie and in most cases you'll see employers looking for drivers,the market is saturated with inexperienced drivers unable to get a break. In alot of cases they can't fill the positions. What region are you referring to?

TheDoc

I was a manager in a retailer in my early 20's and know what you are talking about OP.

Generally my staff were young using the work as part time work through college. As a retail outlet the busy times were weekends and evenings and thats where the bulk of the part time staff were active. This stuff did happen but I'd usually address it if things were mental. At the same time if it was quiet and people were taking a few mins didn't bother me. There was just a mantra of don't take the piss.

Don't know what age you are, but you remind me of a few people that would have come through that job in the few years I was there. When it came to times like Christmas and Sales when it would get mental (Xmas particularly) they were my first port of call when I was putting together teams and temp team leads to manage the mental times.

A certain part of me accepted that most of the staff were there just on their general working path, me included, and the store wasn't the end goal. But at the same time appreciated those for who it was their career, and ensured they were properly rewarded and recognised when roles came up or some more advanced work was needed to be done.

dwayneshintzy

BreadnBuddha wrote: »

The system in the US is 10 times better than the crap employers and hard working employees have to put up with in Irish workplaces. At least in many states there it's possible to ditch a dosser, leaving more employment and hours for people who get their heads down and get on with the job.

Is it ****......anti-union indoctrination videos, little to no health insurance from many employers, shocking pay at minimum wage. Low-level workers in the US are treated abysmally.

Escapees

Sorry for silence, haven't had any time to catch up on thread. Some interesting feedback, particularly from the poster who rightly guessed that one of the workers is related to the manager! It's mainly on days that this worker is on that the other staff start dossing.

And to the posters who say it's none of my business, course it's my business if I'm put under pressure at the custoner end of things as a result. Also, it doesn't do much for morale when you're trying to do an honest days work and others around you seem to be taking the piss - note also that the other workers have worked longer than myself here.