Bank Of Ireland - trying to get rid of staff deferred pensioners

Ally Dick

Hi. I left Bank Of Ireland on voluntary redundancy package over a year ago. I have a deferred pension payable at 60. I received a letter from the pension department yesterday offering me an enhanced pension transfer fund, to leave the pension scheme. I am deeply hurt by the insensitivity of this letter. Are they entitled to do this? I'm thinking of taking it further with the pension ombudsman

GerardKeating

Ally Dick wrote: »

Hi. I left Bank Of Ireland on voluntary redundancy package over a year ago. I have a deferred pension payable at 60. I received a letter from the pension department yesterday offering me an enhanced pension transfer fund, to leave the pension scheme. I am deeply hurt by the insensitivity of this letter. Are they entitled to do this? I'm thinking of taking it further with the pension ombudsman

They are "entitled" to make any legal offer to you. Why would you be offended by an "enhanced" value.

Get independent financial advise, if the offer is "good" consider it, if the offer not good then don't accept it.

Perhaps your deferred pension is a "defined benefit" scheme, they are proving very very expensive for the employers.

Triangla

As an ex Bank of Ireland worker and deferred pensioner I would be expecting the same letter at some stage.

Basically the defined benefit scheme is underfunded. Options available to the trustees are to request additional monies from the employer, Bank of Ireland but the scheme is so underfunded it does not look possible to simply plug the hole.

One of the options available to trustees is to wind up the pension scheme. This would involve purchasing annuities which are very expensive at the moment and would not buy you the equivalent DB benefit.

Enhanced transfers usually involve topping up the annuity purchase fund so a higher benefit is purchased.

Either way the end result is a lesser benefit that you would have gotten with your DB pension.

I can't see what the complaint regarding insensitivity is, you're just being informed of a decision made based on the current reality faving the actual pension.

As I said, I am ex BOI, I left 8 years ago and I remember getting a letter in 2010 informing me of reduced benefits under the scheme. It sucks eggs but the scheme is in trouble.

If only they did an AIB and put a billion or so of bailout money into it!

If you have any concerns, write to the trustees to voice them. Their job is to look after the pension scheme and they are a seperate entity to the bank.

Ally Dick

GerardKeating wrote: »

They are "entitled" to make any legal offer to you. Why would you be offended by an "enhanced" value.

30 years of service. Bounced out of there in favour of India and Accenture. They ruined my career. Now they are trying to ruin my retirement. They didn't contribute ANYTHING to the pension fund for three years when everything was rosey in the garden. Then they come and tell us that the pension fund is underfunded. Why didn't heads roll over that ? As far as I am concerned, I'll go down on the same ship as everyone else. If the pension fund dies, I'll be in the same boat as current employees or pensioners. I'm not leaving the pension fund, so that everyone else's position is helped. The current transfer value of my pension is €325,000 on paper. I am entitled to a pension of €30k p.a. in 9 years. In order for me to buy a pension that would yield that much, it would cost me €700,000. I doubt their enhanced offer will be over double what they currently estimate the transfer value at.

Ally Dick

The letter they sent out states that "for each member who transfers out of the Fund, the level of and volatility of liabilities in respect of members remaining in the Fund may be reduced. We also expect that in the long run this may reduce the cost to Bank Of Ireland of supporting the fund". Is that not seriously insensitive and cold? Do you honestly think that people are not wise to their sh1te ? I am as entitled to a pension as anyone else who works/worked there. If the whole thing goes into meltdown, so be it. I won't be stepping aside to help the Bank Of Ireland save it. They didn't manage it properly in the first place, it seems. Actuaries and pension staff need to be fired....

Ally Dick

Triangla wrote: »

Basically the defined benefit scheme is underfunded. Options available to the trustees are to request additional monies from the employer, Bank of Ireland but the scheme is so underfunded it does not look possible to simply plug the hole.

The pension fund is in deficit to the tune of 1.5 billion approx. The bank is spending ONE MILLION a day on contract staff from Accenture. Maybe they should consider saving money on this, to help the staff with pensions?

Speedwell

My brother works for Accenture (he's not involved in this; he's an instructional designer). That company is seriously evil and the internal culture is toxic, and my brother admits that if he hadn't literally made himself indispensable, he would have been out on his ear long ago because of backstabbing and department politics. The multinational oil-industry corporation I used to work for in Texas thought they were a bunch of bastards, and folks, when a Texas oil company thinks you're too nasty to do business with, you had better take a long hard look in the mirror.

Stheno

Ally Dick wrote: »

30 years of service. Bounced out of there in favour of India and Accenture. They ruined my career. .

I left Bank Of Ireland on voluntary redundancy package over a year ago

The two statements are contradictory no? You took voluntary redundancy?

What you may find if you stay in the scheme is that your pension will be significantly reduced as BOI can't pay it.

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

The two statements are contradictory no? You took voluntary redundancy?

What you may find if you stay in the scheme is that your pension will be significantly reduced as BOI can't pay it.

The options were - go to Accenture or take the money. I worked in the bank all my life. This was not what I wanted.

I'm staying in the scheme regardless. I want to be treated the same as everyone else who is still a member of the bank. BOI are very profligate when it comes to some aspects of their spending. They could fix the pension up no problem by saving it when it comes to their spending on Accenture

sword1

Ally Dick wrote: »

The options were - go to Accenture or take the money. I worked in the bank all my life. This was not what I wanted.

I'm staying in the scheme regardless. I want to be treated the same as everyone else who is still a member of the bank. BOI are very profligate when it comes to some aspects of their spending. They could fix the pension up no problem by saving it when it comes to their spending on Accenture

I don't understand, you are wise to there ****e and you are going to take it to the ombudsman, surely if it is as black and white as you say treat it as spam and relax ?

Ally Dick

sword1 wrote: »

I don't understand, you are wise to there ****e and you are going to take it to the ombudsman, surely if it is as black and white as you say treat it as spam and relax ?

I'm wise to their sh1te, but I don't think they should be doing what they are doing, so I'm going to take it further to publicize it

Stheno

Ally Dick wrote: »

I'm wise to their sh1te, but I don't think they should be doing what they are doing, so I'm going to take it further to publicize it

1 million a day must be buying them a lot of accenture staff, even at a rate of 1500 a day per person, that's over 600 staff!

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

1 million a day must be buying them a lot of accenture staff, even at a rate of 1500 a day per person, that's over 600 staff!

Yes. That's the figures I am hearing. They are trying to replace their legacy systems with a new product called Omega. The Accenture daily rate is €1300 a day ! I hear there are near one thousand Accenture involved ! That's a lot of money. Meanwhile the pensions go to sh1te.....

Stheno

Ally Dick wrote: »

Yes. That's the figures I am hearing. They are trying to replace their legacy systems with a new product called Omega. The Accenture daily rate is €1300 a day ! I hear there are near one thousand Accenture involved ! That's a lot of money. Meanwhile the pensions go to sh1te.....

That's industry normal for that to be honest, I worked for another consultancy where they charged over 2000 per day for some staff.

1000 staff would probably cost BOI the same internally when you factor in pensions, prsi, and benefits.

It's the pension fund administrators who would be more at fault here

Ally Dick

Stheno wrote: »

That's industry normal for that to be honest, I worked for another consultancy where they charged over 2000 per day for some staff.

1000 staff would probably cost BOI the same internally when you factor in pensions, prsi, and benefits.

It's the pension fund administrators who would be more at fault here

The day we got the bad news about the Accenture outsource, the boss told us that it was going to cost him more to get them in! Jeez, ya don't say, asshole

Bubbaclaus

You sound very angry. I think you need to take a step back and evaluate the situation without emotions.

Ally Dick

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

You sound very angry. I think you need to take a step back and evaluate the situation without emotions.

Yes I am angry. I was in the bank since I was 17. It was such a shock to leave it. The pension letter feels like an attack. You're right. I need to calm down. Thanks for the advice

The J Stands for Jay

Ally Dick wrote: »

Yes I am angry. I was in the bank since I was 17. It was such a shock to leave it. The pension letter feels like an attack. You're right. I need to calm down. Thanks for the advice

So, they're attacking you by offering you an enhanced escape from a pension scheme that's in trouble?

Ally Dick

McGaggs wrote: »

So, they're attacking you by offering you an enhanced escape from a pension scheme that's in trouble?

They're offering us magic beans, to try and fix up the problem that they caused themselves. They won't be coming up with a magic sum that's going to get me the same benefits that I would if I stayed in the pension fund....and don't forget, if I set up another pension, I'll have to pay fees etc to do so. The figure they'll come up with will never cover the gap...so I am not going to do it....and if it turns out that the pension fund goes to sh1t, I am not sorry. I would rather stay in it regardless of what happens. The bank is part of who I am. I'm not letting go of all that I have left of it. I suppose the last two sentences sums up the real issue

cloloco

Its an unusual perspective to have given that you no longer work there. Have you picked up work elsewhere in the meantime and if so is it pensionable?

Ally Dick

cloloco wrote: »

The bank is part of who I am. I'm not letting go of all that I have left of it.

Unusual perspective to have given that you no longer work there. Have you picked up work elsewhere in the meantime and if so is it pensionable?

Try working in a place from the age of 17 to 48, and then get bounced out of it, and see if you still feel part of it or not. I have another job now which is pensionable

cloloco

I understand completely but you need to find a way to move past that. For your own sake, you'll be happier.

Ally Dick

cloloco wrote: »

I understand completely but you need to find a way to move past that. For your own sake, you'll be happier.

Yes. Wise words. I agree. Thanks

BuffyBot

The question, such as it was, appears to have been answered and the thread appears to have turned into a vent. That's something more suited to a personal space, such as a blog