Online petition against proposed new bylaws

Cheshire Cat

Galway City Council is proposing new bylaws that will have a big impact on children, parents, people using the beach and the prom and also all dog owners

http://connachttribune.ie/wave-of-protest-over-proposed-ridiculous-city-bylaws-100/

If you want to mark your opposition, sign here:

https://www.change.org/p/galway-city-council-stop-galway-city-council-from-introducing-new-ridiculous-by-laws?recruiter=2091865

Disclaimer: this isn't my petition, but I have signed it. I have also sent a letter with my thoughts on this to the councillors.

biko

For clarification:

The draft bylaws stipulate that people are not allowed to “climb any tree or shrub in a park or open space or climb any fence, railing or wall in a park or open space . . . operate in a park or open space any model aircraft, model sailing vessel or any model mechanically propelled vehicle save with the permission in writing of the Council”.

“No person shall cycle or use any skateboard, roller skate, roller blades or other such apparatus in a park or open space in such manner as to cause nuisance or annoyance to other users of the park or open space or cause damage to any public property.”

“No cycling, skateboarding or similar activity is permitted in a children’s playground in a park or open space.

“No person, club or organisation shall organise or take part in the game of football or any other games or athletics save in such place in a park or open space as the Council set apart for that purpose and then only subject to and in accordance with such conditions as may be set out by the Council.

To “pluck, cut or remove any flower or blossom or any fruit on any tree, shrub or plant growing therein, other than an employee of the Council” is also banned.

No pet owners “shall take into or allow to remain in a park or open space any dog unless it is on a leash”.

The public have until October 6 to make submissions.

Squeeonline

Galway no craic council amirite?

That being said, I highly doubt an online petition will make a difference. Better to collect signatures from people nearby and present it to the council.

Das Kitty

You can present online petitions to them too.

Between this and them ordering murals to be painted over. What are they going to do? Fine toddlers for picking daisies in the square?

I wouldn't mind if they got any actual work done rather than sit in city hall arguing like school-children and complaining about the press live tweeting their silly spats.

TerrorFirmer

This is being massively over-sensationalised. Cyclists can be a problem on the prom. Inconsiderate assholes throwing balls around like missiles in the square in particular on busy days is a problem. These are the scenarios that the CC has in mind when drafting these by-laws.

Fathers innocently throwing a ball with their toddler on a fine day at Grattan beach are not going to be pepper sprayed, cuffed and thrown in the back of a squad car.

No person shall cycle or use any skateboard, roller skate, roller blades or other such apparatus in a park or open space in such manner as to cause nuisance or annoyance to other users of the park or open space or cause damage to any public property.

Sounds reasonable to me. Grants the power to tackle people who are, basically, taking the piss.

How people are interpreting this as a law to 'stop people having fun' is beyond me really.

Zzippy

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

This is being massively over-sensationalised. Cyclists can be a problem on the prom. Inconsiderate assholes throwing balls around like missiles in the square in particular on busy days is a problem. These are the scenarios that the CC has in mind when drafting these by-laws.

Fathers innocently throwing a ball with their toddler on a fine day at Grattan beach are not going to be pepper sprayed, cuffed and thrown in the back of a squad car.



Sounds reasonable to me. Grants the power to tackle people who are, basically, taking the piss.

How people are interpreting this as a law to 'stop people having fun' is beyond me really.

It's not, acually. The proposal includes a ban on fishing except with written permission of the council. I know people who were previously told by lifeguards at Silverstrand that they couldn't fish there, despite a) there being no such law whatsoever and b) not a single other person using the beach at the time. Writing this into law just gives idiots with a little bit of power the right to order people around as they decide, never mind common sense.
Cycling, playing football, climbing trees, rollerblading, fishing - these are all healthy outdoor activities that the council should be trying to encourage young people to participate in, not put obstacles in their way.

Mrs OBumble

Das Kitty wrote: »

What are they going to do? Fine toddlers for picking daisies in the square?

If children are being persistently allowed to steal property (and I don't care where it's flowers belonging to the council, or sweets belonging to a convenience store owner), then something needs to be done.

Fines may not be the most effective way of getting better parenting in place.

But they send a clear message to people about what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.

charlie_says

Well.

Good luck trying to enforce these. I will contact the city council and object to them.

If somebody was accosted by a council representative (wardens?) trying to impose these rules surely they'll justignore them. Why would they voluntarily give name and address to them so they can be prosecuted?

TerrorFirmer

Zzippy wrote: »

Cycling, playing football, climbing trees, rollerblading, fishing - these are all healthy outdoor activities that the council should be trying to encourage young people to participate in, not put obstacles in their way.

But again that's being dramatic. Whilst I'm not sure about the fishing admittedly, the other activities first of all are not being 'banned' - the by-laws allow power to stop people who are encroaching on other peoples enjoyment/use of the public space.

Have you never seen a cyclist flying down the prom without due regard, young lads flinging around a ball in Eyre Square without any regard for other peoples space? These do happen....all the time.

People are reading way, way too much into the by-laws. Fun is not being banned. Being a child is certainly not being banned. In fact, very little is being banned other than people acting like assholes in public spaces.

As for climbing trees, while I don't think I've ever seen a man, beast or child climbing a tree in Eyre Square, that doesn't shock me given that the CC is probably liable is someone were to fall and break an arm - not to mention climbing trees in public space is liable for damage them. Same goes for flowers - they're there for everyone to enjoy, not for someone to come long and pick and then leave the place looking poorly for someone else to come along and whinge about the poor upkeep of the place.

A huge amount of people have cast their eye over the by-laws for 5 seconds and concluded that children, fun, the mere presence of a ball, dogs, bicycles, sunshine, happiness and skateboards are absolutely and resolutely banned from all public areas in the city. Which is not the case nor anywhere close.

Zzippy

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

But again that's being dramatic. Whilst I'm not sure about the fishing admittedly, the other activities first of all are not being 'banned' - the by-laws allow power to stop people who are encroaching on other peoples enjoyment/use of the public space.

Have you never seen a cyclist flying down the prom without due regard, young lads flinging around a ball in Eyre Square without any regard for other peoples space? These do happen....all the time.

People are reading way, way too much into the by-laws. Fun is not being banned. Being a child is certainly not being banned. In fact, very little is being banned other than people acting like assholes in public spaces.

As for climbing trees, while I don't think I've ever seen a man, beast or child climbing a tree in Eyre Square, that doesn't shock me given that the CC is probably liable is someone were to fall and break an arm - not to mention climbing trees in public space is liable for damage them. Same goes for flowers - they're there for everyone to enjoy, not for someone to come long and pick and then leave the place looking poorly for someone else to come along and whinge about the poor upkeep of the place.

A huge amount of people have cast their eye over the by-laws for 5 seconds and concluded that children, fun, the mere presence of a ball, dogs, bicycles, sunshine, happiness and skateboards are absolutely and resolutely banned from all public areas in the city. Which is not the case nor anywhere close.

That may be your interpretation, but that is not what is in the proposed bye-laws - they are very prescriptive and not open to the kind of interpretation you are inferring. They outlaw, very clearly, playing football on non-designated parts of public parks. There is no provision in the proposal that doing these things is ok as long as it's not encroaching on other people's enjoyment. Most of the "bad" things in this are already illegal - cycling on the footpath, injecting drugs, damaging shrubs, graffiti, etc,. There is absolutely no need for these regulations save to give wardens the power to do whatever they want.
You may think it's open to interpretation, that's fine til you meet a warden on a power trip who now has ridiculous powers granted to him by our own council and decides to give you an on-the-spot fine for throwing a frisbee around South Park. Like I mentioned, anglers have already had trouble with council staff throwing their weight around - when they had no cause to. What's to stop them now?

Ludikrus

Delighted to see the dog leash one. Well done Galway City Council. About time.

talking_walnut

Ludikrus wrote: »

Delighted to see the dog leash one. Well done Galway City Council. About time.

You do realise there's no dog parks in the city don't you? There's literally nowhere to bring a dog to run around and socialise.

talking_walnut

talking_walnut wrote: »

You do realise there's no dog parks in the city don't you? There's literally nowhere to bring a dog to run around and socialise.

Don't have a dog in a city then, they shouldn't be off the lead simple as that.

They are a nuisance for those out walking who are afraid of dogs and for those walking their own dogs on the lead running up around them and interfering with them.

inisboffin

talking_walnut wrote: »

You do realise there's no dog parks in the city don't you? There's literally nowhere to bring a dog to run around and socialise.

This.

This particular rule might have some validity if there was an acceptable alternative like dog parks, or keeping certain times. This blanket ban is just daft, along with some of the other (proposed) laws.

Mrs OBumble

talking_walnut wrote: »

You do know there's no dog parks in the city don't you? There's literally nowhere to bring dogs to run around and socialise.

There are lots of places, you just have to keep the dog on a lead and go with it.

Or your own garden.

Or you can send it on the beach after 9pm.

TerrorFirmer

Let's be fair here, what has the lack of dog parks got to do with the by-laws? The laws would ensure that dogs are on leashes when in public places - I don't see anything particularly wrong with that? Dogs aren't banned, dogs running around without a leash would be. Which is reasonable enough, especially in an urban environment.

The lack of dog parks (assuming you're talking about spaces in which dogs are allowed run around off the lease officially) is a totally seperate issue and nothing to do with these proposed by-laws.

Redhairedguy

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Or you can send it on the beach after 9pm.

I'm assuming the council will be supplying doggie night vision googles for winter?

Gadgetman496

TerrorFirmer wrote: »

The lack of dog parks (assuming you're talking about spaces in which dogs are allowed run around off the lease officially) is a totally seperate issue and nothing to do with these proposed by-laws.

But, is that not a cart before the horse approach?

If they decide to implement an all out ban? they should provide the areas within the City where the poor K-Nine's can have a run, just like smoking areas were provided when the smoking ban was introduced.

It's hardly reasonable to condemn dogs in the city who have no access to fields out the country to a life on a lead.

talking_walnut

Alberto Inexpensive Snapdragon wrote: »

Don't have a dog in a city then, they shouldn't be off the lead simple as that.

Aren't you the guy who keeps ranting about your right to drive everywhere and anywhere in the city? I hope the irony isn't lost on you.

Alberto Inexpensive Snapdragon wrote: »

They are a nuisance for those out walking who are afraid of dogs and for those walking their own dogs on the lead running up around them and interfering with them.

An enclosed area where dogs can run free and socialise would help solve these exact problems.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

There are lots of places, you just have to keep the dog on a lead and go with it.

Or your own garden.

Or you can send it on the beach after 9pm.

Would you say the same about football pitches? There's no need for them because people have gardens they can kick the ball around. Sure you can bring your football to a public place, you just have to carry it.
I don't play football but I don't begrudge the space being used for it.

Dogs are social creatures. They need to run around and play with other dogs or they get weird. I actually do think they should be kept on the lead in public places, but there needs to be somewhere for them to go.

Moo Moo Land

Utterly ridiculous on the part of Galway council.
Have they nothing better to be doing?
People and the Gardai will ignore for the most part.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Honestly that all looks like the kind of stuff I would have assumed was on the books already and just not enforced, it's all pretty reasonable.


Completely depends how it's enforced and what the penalties are though. I can picture some little clip board wanker booking someone for walking through a park with a skateboard under their arm like. But the majority of the time I'd say it'll be ignored unless someone happens to be completely taking the piss and someone with the authority to enforce these laws is around, which will realistically be rare enough.

And it doesn't seem OTT in essence at all. You can't play ball games here, you have to go to this part of the park. You can't act the knob on a bicycle or rollerblades, but you're free to use them as long as you respect other users of the space. You can't mess with the flowers and trees. You have to keep your dog on a lead*. Don't be climbing the fences. Really can't get why people would see this as outrageous.

*given the absence of dog parks I can see the point of people objecting to this one, also that you need to get express permission for model boats.

zell12

Was this bye-law or part of it enacted?

GalwayGaillimh

Probably introduced this to deflect the attention away from the 50 million being squandered on new offices in Crown Square maybe the fines from the new laws will help pay for it...

Mrs OBumble

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119838992#Comment_119838992

You think they've been planning the move since 2016?

Calahonda52

Draft Beach Bye Laws 2022 Eng.pdf

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2022/1106/1333523-water-sports/

Sex on the beach does not seem too be banned

Discodog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/101038637#Comment_101038637

Not a hope of dog parks. Just as no hope of renting if you have a dog. Meanwhile in Finland every town has a choice of dog parks & dogs are welcome in rental apartments. There are no stray dogs & dogs are shipped in from Romania for those who want a rescue dog.

Larbre34

The good Councillors of Galway County, in whose gift it is to make, or not make Bye-laws, need to be reminded that the beaches and common lands of this State belong to all of the people, not to them, or to any narrow interest represented by them.

Yes, activities or behaviours that adversely impact the environment and public order on beaches and common land must be banned for the common good, but that should be a blanket situation nationally, managed by Statute, not by exclusionary bye-laws.

The Councillors should know that if they attempt to proceed with this proposal from Council management, it will be challenged in Court, on their acting ultra vires and possibly on some constitutional issues too. And the cost of that will be borne by GCC.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119841974#Comment_119841974

That's nuts. Swimmers are rescued by surfers, kayakers, canoeists and sailers every year. There is nothing better for swimmers than experienced water people sharing the space with good floatation and an understanding of rips, tides, weather & local conditions.

Homelander

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/council-says-it-has-no-intention-of-banning-watersports-from-county-beaches/

Council says it never planned to ban any activities from beaches.

wassie

What a load of BS.

Council clearly will have the power to outlaw these activities as highlighted in the draft beach bylaws:

PART 2: PROHIBITED ACTS No person shall do or cause any of the following acts on the beaches listed in Schedule one:

(s) - No person shall wind surf on sail boards or kite-surf on kite boards or surf on a surf board or use a canoe, kayak, dinghy, stand-up paddle board or water bike in close proximity to bathers.

The Council may at its discretion designate areas of any beach in and at which the use of surf boards and/or kite boards and/or sail boards and/or canoes and kayaks and/or dinghies and/or stand-up paddle boards and/or water bikes is restricted or prohibited

(u) No person shall use of an inflatable water device, including any inflatable lilo or inflatable water toy on open water

On a busy day at the beach in Spiddel, it will be nigh on impossible to launch a stand up paddle board and get past the swimmers in deeper water without being in 'close proximity to bathers'.

So effectively banned.

And if your kids want to use the inflatable ring - banned.

These laws may be well intentioned, but they are poorly drafted.

Over the top by-laws tbh.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119846853#Comment_119846853

If you're a water user and you know how some swimmers carry on and some council workers carry on you'll know this is exactly a permanent ban. A disaster for tourism, an exclusion of Galway from the Wild Atlantic Way, and a place to avoid for thousands of people who go to Galway to partake in watersports and somewhere for the likes of Tall Ships, Ocean Races, Regattas, Canoe Marathon etc... to avoid

Psychlops

Stupid by-laws, cant be enforced anyway, no water police 🤣

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119899415#Comment_119899415

True, Galway struggles to maintain a garda presence in the city center it is hardly going to have the resources to patrol the beaches and sea.

This is just an exercise by elected officials to give the appearance that they are hard at work.

John_Rambo

Maybe unenforceable, but will 100% cause conflict on the water.

Homelander

I don't think it's fair to say this is "elected officials to give the appearance they're hard at work".

It's not councillors who are bringing this forward or guiding its development, it's Galway County Council. Most councillors don't agree with them in their current form.

wassie

But don't bye-laws have to be passed at a meeting of the Council before they can be enacted?

Homelander

But that's nothing to do with the people who actually conceptualized, designed and introduced them. Councillors did not propose them or have any say in the wording to this point as was suggested above.

It came up for mention among councillors as reported in local media. They don't seem overly pleased with them. They're not voted on or enacted at this point. They are still at design stage.

For example here one of them is giving out about it and saying they are ridiculous in their current form. The Connacht tribune had a bigger piece with more councillors mentioned but I don't see it on their website.

https://galwaybayfm.ie/galway-bay-fm-news-desk/council-says-it-has-no-intention-of-banning-watersports-from-county-beaches/

wassie

Anyone who feels these draft bye laws are rubbish, suggest writing to Council and voicing concerns.

The deadline for submissions on the proposals has been extended to 5 pm Friday Nov 25th

https://www.galway.ie/en/news/name%2C44721%2Cen.html

Larbre34

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119903437#Comment_119903437

They do.

Councillors have very little power in local government, but making Bye-laws is one power they do have.

If the Council does not pass a vote for them, they don't exist.

Make sure and let your Councillors know this. Local elections in June 2024....

https://www.rte.ie/news/connacht/2022/1220/1343010-galway-beach-bye-laws/

Following the last Galway County Council Plenary Meeting of the year, officials and councillors have unanimously agreed to invite water sports bodies and stakeholders to make presentations to the Strategic Policy Committee Meeting early next year, regarding zoning maps and wording of the contentious bye-laws.