Irish players that should switch province

Baz1974

As the new season kicks off I was thinking about what players are going to be spending most of the season outside their provincial 23 that could be getting regular rugby elsewhere, particularly in the context of Nucifora's remit to spread talent properly.
One guy that sticks out for me is Robin Copeland. He was tearing up trees with Cardiff a couple of years ago, knocking on the door for international recognition, he moves back to Ireland to further his career with Munster and he dissappears. Foley clearly only rates him as a squad player, he's not from Munster, why is he still there? Ulster could seriously do with someone of his athleticism in their backrow between departures and injuries, surely would benefit both parties. Even on a loan deal?
Dominic Ryan is another guy that could contribute a lot to the Ulster backrow and who'll get limited minutes with Leinster when the internationals are back.
The 2 major talent bottle necks I think are the Leinster front row and the Ulster back line.
James Tracey is 25 and behind 2 international hookers but looks to have the talent to be a future international. Surely in Munster or Connacht he'd be at least fighting for 1st choice. Michael Bent and Peter Dooley look like guys who, given who are ahead of them and also coming behind in the academy, could be better off going to Ulster who are struggling in that area.
Then you have the ridiculous amount of talent in Ulster's backs. To me Stuart Olding is behind McCloskey, Marshall, Payne and possibly Cave in the centres and Piutua and Payne and maybe Ludik at fullback. Get him down to Leinster or Munster where he'll start regularly. Cave is going to struggle to get in theteam as well and would be a great signing for Munster at the moment. Stockdale is another guy there who I think should go and play somewhere else for a coupl of years until guys like Bowe and Trimble have moved on.
Think there's lots of room for improvement in this area particularly when we see Marty Moore and Ian Madigan moving abroad who have been starters in another province.

thomond2006

I think Copeland is a good player and I don't want to sound harsh, but IMO he stood out in what was a very poor Cardiff side at the time.

The Pheasant2

I agree re Copeland and Dom Ryan - there's a good level of backrow talent in the country at the minute but it's an area in which Ulster are lacking...possibly in the front row also. Thankfully these are also the richest areas of depth for Leinster. I certainly wouldn't might if they sent a centre in exchange for D Ryan and a front row

Buer

Good thread. There's a lot of scope for movement between the provinces and several guys who should really be encouraged to relocate but nobody can be forced into anything. There are guys who will be happier to live at home, picking up a pay cheque and 10-15 appearances a season rather than relocate and try to move up a level.

In relation to those named, Copeland isn't that good. There's nothing more to it really. He shone in a poor Cardiff side as someone that was an unknown quantity and reaped the rewards. After that, people knew he was very quick for a forward and a good open field carrier so they shut him down and his influence disappeared overnight. I don't think Ulster would be interested. They've a much better player in Robbie Diack who already occupies the exact same role that Copeland does but to a higher standard.

Dominic Ryan is someone that never managed to build on his early promise and natural athleticism. He turns 27 this season and doesn't seem to have ever really developed much more in terms of his understanding of the subtler elements and finds himself a second behind cannier flankers at the breakdown. Again, Ulster have someone like Chris Henry who probably won't be with Ireland much anymore and will always be ahead of Ryan. He would be useful for Ulster but I don't see him being first choice.

The Leinster loosehead factory should absolutely be looked at. Andrew Porter, Peter Dooley, Jack McGrath, Ed Byrne, Cian Healy....more than they need. The Ulster backs factory needs to be examined desperately given the paucity of midfield options in Munster and Leinster but again, you can't make someone leave their home.

The guys that I'd be eager to relocate are those who aren't first choice (nor will they be due to the age and quality of their competition) at their province but still quality operators who would be first choice elsewhere or at least have the potential to be so in the next year or two. I'm thinking of guys like Dan Leavy, Jack Conan and Darren Cave.

It's a real shame that guys like Rory Scholes, Marty Moore and Chris Farrell could not be convinced to move to another province. Farrell has 55 appearances for Grenoble and is clearly enjoying life in France but it's a real loss to Irish rugby. Those are lads who could absolutely be starting for other provinces at this point. But as I said, you can't force someone to move somewhere. Madigan rejected Munster and Farrell had offers from other unnamed provinces that he rejected (probably all of them).

Losty Dublin

The Pheasant2 wrote: »

I agree re Copeland and Dom Ryan - there's a good level of backrow talent in the country at the minute but it's an area in which Ulster are lacking...possibly in the front row also. Thankfully these are also the richest areas of depth for Leinster. I certainly wouldn't might if they sent a centre in exchange for D Ryan and a front row

Ryan's two foot injuries have done more than anything to hold him back. Between them both he has missed two years of football. When he maintains fitness he is as good as any back row forward in Ireland.

Zzippy

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Ryan's two foot injuries have done more than anything to hold him back. Between them both he has missed two years of football. When he maintains fitness he is as good as any back row forward in Ireland.

Ever so slightly over the top I think. He's not in the same league as Heaslip, SOB, Stander, POM among others. He's a decent Pro12 level backrow, that's about it.

The Lost Sheep

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Ryan's two foot injuries have done more than anything to hold him back. Between them both he has missed two years of football. When he maintains fitness he is as good as any back row forward in Ireland.

He isn't at all that good. He has 1 cap at international level and will be a while before his next. He's a good pro player at provincial level but a good bit off what you are putting him as one of the best in the country

Losty Dublin

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

He isn't at all that good. He has 1 cap at international level and will be a while before his next. He's a good pro player at provincial level but a good bit off what you are putting him as one of the best in the country

Ah here. He is easily one of the top 60 back rowers

bilston

In fairness for all the backs Ulster produce we find ourselves requiring to have a not fully fit McCloskey on the bench this weekend as we have no one else to cover the backs due to injury and unavailability, and that's with having already having two 20 year olds and a 19 year old in the backline (albeit Lyttle and Stockdale are exceptional talents). With the attrition rate being what it is the provinces need these big squads now.

errlloyd

Leinster's outhalves have become a point in the Leinster thread, 4 of them currently demanding gametime, and that is after Ian Madigan regrettably chose to leave instead of move. While 4 isn't necessarily oversupply, given the desperation in all three other provinces for outhalf cover right now, it is a bit excessive.

Similarly Connacht don't have too many scrum-halves, but there is an absolute shortage everywhere else. I think Cooney should go up to Ulster at the end of the season.