net hours v gross hours

evosteo

can anyone give me an explanation in the difference between net hours and gross hours?

for example i work 39 hours per week on a flat week and submit this in my time sheets for 39 hrs but apparently my overtime is worked out over a 43 hour week?

i cant explain where this 4 hour discrepancy comes from as my contract states a 39hour week and neither can the outsourced HR company.

this would imply that any hours worked over 39 hours should be payed at the relevant overtime rates

this essentially means the over time rate is worked out alot less than expected

Ericdravancrow

Are they saying, overtime is not paid till 43hrs of normal work is done?...but you have a contract for 39hrs, that sounds like b*llox.
Do you do overtime?

Stheno

Do you work monday to Friday 9-5 type hours?

evosteo

Ericdravancrow wrote: »

Are they saying, overtime is not paid till 43hrs of normal work is done?...but you have a contract for 39hrs, that sounds like b*llox.
Do you do overtime?

not anymore

i basically worked a sunday which is paid as double time.

i was expecting a certain amount for it in my wage but it was short a few quid.

so i done some maths and made a few calls.

on one call to hr they said that over time is worked out over a 43 hour week and not a 39 hour week.

as im on an annual salary this means that my over time rate is less than expected as they work out the hourly rate over a 43 hour week instead of a 39 hour week

i also got told that 43 hours is gross hours and 39 hours is net hours but i dont know what she meant by that?

Stheno

I suspect they are including lunch breaks in the 43 hours

evosteo

Stheno wrote: »

Do you work monday to Friday 9-5 type hours?

yea 8.30 to 5 mon to thur and 8.30 till 4 on friday

so monday for example i will get paid for 8 hours and have a 30min unpaid lunch break

evosteo

Stheno wrote: »

I suspect they are including lunch breaks in the 43 hours

still dosnt work out as that would only add up to 41.5 hours and even then its unpaid, unworked time

SeaFields

A former employer of mine used this approach before for overtime. The gross hours were decimalisation of net hours. So for example 45 minutes overtime would be 0.75 of a gross hour, 15 minutes would be 0.25 of a gross hour, etc. It's a long time ago so can't recall much more than that but it may help.

evosteo

SeaFields wrote: »

A former employer of mine used this approach before for overtime. The gross hours were decimalisation of net hours. So for example 45 minutes overtime would be 0.75 of a gross hour, 15 minutes would be 0.25 of a gross hour, etc. It's a long time ago so can't recall much more than that but it may help.

iv seen that before but this employer pays by the hour. no quarter, half or three quarter hours of over time

notharrypotter

Wondering

im on an annual salary

Perhaps they only pay overtime when you work more than 43 nett hours.

So the first 4 hours were counted as single rate?

What exactly does your contract state regarding overtime?

Also

this employer pays by the hour. no quarter, half or three quarter hours of over time

Wondering 0 to 59 min is not counted?
so 1 hour to 1 hour 59min will only attract a payment of 1 hour
equally
2 hour to 2 hour 59min will only attract a payment of 2 hours?

Ericdravancrow

So if you're made redundant, tell them they will have to calculate your payments on a 43hr week so...

Mrs OBumble

notharrypotter wrote: »

Wondering
Perhaps they only pay overtime when you work more than 43 nett hours.

So the first 4 hours were counted as single rate?

I've seen this before.

Nothing to do with gross vs nett (which are words describing before and after tax).

Rather it's a simple contract clause saying that the normal work week is N hours, but that overtime is only paid for hours in excess of N+p.

This is done is jobs where salaried employees are expected to do some hours in excess of the normal hours, some weeks, but (as is usually the case for salaried employees) don't receive any extra pay for them.

You really need to read up the detail of your contract and employee handbook - it may be in the latter as a policy, rather than a contractual term.



Someone' quip about your being made redundant is irrelevant: if that happens, your redundancy is based on normal hours of work (39) and normal salary, not overtime rates.

evosteo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've seen this before.

Nothing to do with gross vs nett (which are words describing before and after tax).

Rather it's a simple contract clause saying that the normal work week is N hours, but that overtime is only paid for hours in excess of N+p.

This is done is jobs where salaried employees are expected to do some hours in excess of the normal hours, some weeks, but (as is usually the case for salaried employees) don't receive any extra pay for them.

You really need to read up the detail of your contract and employee handbook - it may be in the latter as a policy, rather than a contractual term.



Someone' quip about your being made redundant is irrelevant: if that happens, your redundancy is based on normal hours of work (39) and normal salary, not overtime rates.

Thanks for the reply. So would i be right in saying that if is dosnt make reference to the 43 hours in the contract then it shouldnt apply?

From my reading of it. It only makes reference to a 39hr net week

Mrs OBumble

No, you need to check their overtime policies as well.

Because overtime is unusual for salaried employees, it may well not be mentioned in contracts. But some companies do have provision for it, especially if it's due to there being genuinely extra work (as opposed to you just didn't get the job done in time). And in these, it's sometimes described in a policy document rather than a contact.

Ericdravancrow

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've seen this before.

Nothing to do with gross vs nett (which are words describing before and after tax).

Rather it's a simple contract clause saying that the normal work week is N hours, but that overtime is only paid for hours in excess of N+p.

This is done is jobs where salaried employees are expected to do some hours in excess of the normal hours, some weeks, but (as is usually the case for salaried employees) don't receive any extra pay for them.

You really need to read up the detail of your contract and employee handbook - it may be in the latter as a policy, rather than a contractual term.



Someone' quip about your being made redundant is irrelevant: if that happens, your redundancy is based on normal hours of work (39) and normal salary, not overtime rates.

Not...I got redundancy based on 44 hr week, worked 39 mostly, all depends on contract and a good negotiator

evosteo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No, you need to check their overtime policies as well.

Because overtime is unusual for salaried employees, it may well not be mentioned in contracts. But some companies do have provision for it, especially if it's due to there being genuinely extra work (as opposed to you just didn't get the job done in time). And in these, it's sometimes described in a policy document rather than a contact.

iv checked the hr overtime policy on the internal website and there`s no mention of the 43 hours or working a set number of hours before o/t kicks in. just the different rates for the times OT is paid. iv raised this with the union and they are following it up.