Noob needs good first bike and doesn't care what it looks like

guitarmagic

Hi,

I'm 28 and gonna get my provisional A licence soon and I'm looking to buy my first bike.

I would like to buy a used bike that is popular enough in Ireland so that it will hold it's value and stay relevant on the used marked. So i can re-sell it easily if I should want to.

My budget would be around 1500 euro. What is a good budget for a first bike though?
Like what is a good cheap price-still no junk-ratio?

I'm not into sport bikes, I was thinking more a yamaha ybr sitting position.

also i can't fix anything (zero practical skills) so it needs to be very very reliable.

I don't care what the bike looks like. really i don't.

It will be used for commuting and short, maybe longer trips

I was thinking around 250cc-500cc. i don't need anything fast.

if it is economical thats good.

basicly i'm like your granddad getting a bike and he does not give a s about anything except getting from A to B in the easiest manner possible.

If you have some suggestions for a good used firs bikes on the irish marked post a reply. Thanks.

gerrowadat

Honda are good for reliability. It sounds like you're not pushed about having an A category bike. I know they get a pasting on here, but honda deauvilles seem to hold their value and never really break or require maintenance. I had one for nearly a year and sold it back to the dealer I got it from for 100 quid less than I bought it.

guitarmagic

gerrowadat wrote: »

Honda are good for reliability. It sounds like you're not pushed about having an A category bike. I know they get a pasting on here, but honda deauvilles seem to hold their value and never really break or require maintenance. I had one for nearly a year and sold it back to the dealer I got it from for 100 quid less than I bought it.

yes, right, i'm not pushed about having a BIG monster (A cat. bike)

I've been riding a 50cc 4-gear moped for some years so i'm gonna take it slowly

Hondas in general ? or honda deauvilles? can you suggest some more specific models?

Thx

lennymc

If it was me, I would buy a suzuki bandit 600 - it will go on forever, the finish may suffer in the winter, you will get a reasonable one for your money - maybe even a factory restricted one. Old school oil/air cooled under stressed motor, simple to service and maintain.

Wonda-Boy

Bandit 600, yamaha FZ6 or CB500 all ideal. Also an SV650 is a nice starter bike..... I would personally recommend the FZ6 great bike looks good and very learner friendly.

efanton

My advice for what its worth is make sure you do the Cat A training and test. You will kick yourself later if you do decide you want a bigger bike when you look at how much more its going to cost you to go up to a cat A license.

Even if you decide on buying a smaller bike (less than 600cc) you can hire a bike from your instructor on the day of your test.

With regards to buying a bike, it really depend on how much you are willing to spend. Personally I would avoid any cheap small bike, its almost certain its been rev'd to the limit constantly.
Honda deauvilles, CB's or CD's go forever. Agree with the recommendation for the FZ and the Suzuki bandits or GSX's should also be considered.

Just becuase a bike might be faster, it doesnt mean you must try to ride it at its maximum speed. Personally I would feel a lot safer on a 500cc or 600cc bike than something smaller. Being able to accelerate out of trouble really does matter.

CJhaughey

If you are truly mechanically stunted then a Deau would be a good choice, shaft drive means no chain cleaning, adjusting, lubricating, or replacing.
no other bike had the same combination of practicality and ease of ownership as the much maligned Deauville.

guitarmagic

CJhaughey wrote: »

If you are truly mechanically stunted then a Deau would be a good choice, shaft drive means no chain cleaning, adjusting, lubricating, or replacing.
no other bike had the same combination of practicality and ease of ownership as the much maligned Deauville.

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I am indeed completely impractical. I read about the bike and I think i'm gonna go for the Deauville. Any difference between the NT650V and NT700V? What year models would be better builds, if there are any such distinctions?

gerrowadat

guitarmagic wrote: »

Thanks for the recommendations guys. I am indeed completely impractical. I read about the bike and I think i'm gonna go for the Deauville. Any difference between the NT650V and NT700V? What year models would be better builds, if there are any such distinctions?

NT700v is fuel injected, slightly nicer trim, bigger panniers slightly, slightly more powerful.

MSVforever

I don't think you will get a Deauville 700 for €1.5k. I'd say you will be looking easily at €3.5k. The 600 would fit in your budget though.
Just be aware (as mentioned above) that you might not be able to take the test on it due to the power/weight ratio (you can clarify this with the RSA).

TeaBagMania

where in the country are you?

this would make a great little city bike and what I would ride if I lived in Dublin, Cork, or Galway

http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/125cc/msx125-2016/overview.html

CJhaughey

Check the Revere out as well, basically a naked Deauville with no panniers.
Not quite as comfy with no screen though.

guitarmagic

MSVforever wrote: »

I don't think you will get a Deauville 700 for €1.5k. I'd say you will be looking easily at €3.5k. The 600 would fit in your budget though.
Just be aware (as mentioned above) that you might not be able to take the test on it due to the power/weight ratio (you can clarify this with the RSA).

I can just rent a bike for the test I guess

guitarmagic

TeaBagMania wrote: »

where in the country are you?

this would make a great little city bike and what I would ride if I lived in Dublin, Cork, or Galway

http://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/range/125cc/msx125-2016/overview.html

I'm in Dublin city. But I would like to both be able to commute around Dublin and go on trips around the country. And this bike is brand new isn't it? I was thinking of buying a used bike that wouldn't lose it's value that much

guitarmagic

Is there a limitation to how big a bike I can ride on a provisional cat. A licence...?

gerrowadat

guitarmagic wrote: »

Is there a limitation to how big a bike I can ride on a provisional cat. A licence...?

Assuming you've done the Cat A IBT, no restriction.

schaffer1969

guitarmagic wrote: »

Is there a limitation to how big a bike I can ride on a provisional cat. A licence...?

Just your insurance budget limit

Peanut2011

I've had Bandit 600 as first bike for last 4 years and have changed to Deauville 650 recently.

I will say Bandit was a lot of fun, easy to maintain and trouble free. Also small enough for filtering around town.

Deauville is slightly bigger, but has great storage and with touring screen a lot more protection from weather.

One thing though, Deauville is a bit more jittery at the low revs and require a lot more handeling in city traffic.

But it's great for commute and much more economical.

macplaxton

CJhaughey wrote: »

Check the Revere out as well, basically a naked Deauville with no panniers.

It's not the '90s anymore! :pac:

(When did they drop the name? ~1992? I think when the engine went up from 600 to 650 and was just called the NTV650. Also got cheapened with tubular handlebars, fuses moved from the top yoke and standard centre stand binned to become an extra-cost option at about £80. Anyway haven't they all been despatched to death?)

Pugzilla

If you don't care about looks like, then get a scooter.

CJhaughey

You could buy a piece of Irish Military History.
https://www.donedeal.ie/motorbikes-for-sale/1998-honda-deauville-650/13299226
Thats a 2 Cav Deauville If I am not mistaken and a decent price as well.

CJhaughey

macplaxton wrote: »

It's not the '90s anymore! :pac:

(When did they drop the name? ~1992? I think when the engine went up from 600 to 650 and was just called the NTV650. Also got cheapened with tubular handlebars, fuses moved from the top yoke and standard centre stand binned to become an extra-cost option at about £80. Anyway haven't they all been despatched to death?)

Honda motorcycles from this era are some of the best finished bikes you'll ever see.
Paint is thick, fasteners are all plated well. and the engines in these V-twins last for a very long time.
I know of some with over 150k miles on them!
Little known fact, if you compare the frame dmensions on these bikes they ar very similar to the Honda NSR250 of the same era. They handle well in Naked form and even as a practical commuter with the extra weight they still handle well.
There are still decent Bikes that haven't been dispatched around if you look.

mufflets2

Just to say - I found it a lot easier to do the test on a bike I was used to and riding regularly than one that i rented for the test ( I did it twice)

guitarmagic

mufflets2 wrote: »

Just to say - I found it a lot easier to do the test on a bike I was used to and riding regularly than one that i rented for the test ( I did it twice)

yes, i figured. But I looked at the list ( http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Motorcyclists/Driving-Test-Vehicles---Motorcycles/ ) and since I don't know anything about fixing stuff, and don't have any friends that do, I'm really looking for a "low-maintenance" shaft-drive like the deauville. Are there any alternatives that are also hold their re-sale value and are current on the irish marked?

mufflets2

I see Suzuki Bandit 600 is on the list and would seem to tick all your boxes. it would allow you to do the test on your own bike which i believe would save you money on renting test bikes and extra lessons (to gain the needed confidence on a strange bike)

I found that for the test, there is a big difference between being able to drive a rented bike and being comfortable and confident enough on it to do all the things you need to do for the test.
Its much easier to test on your own bike if at all possible.

All the jap bikes are fairly reliable now

guitarmagic

mufflets2 wrote: »

I see Suzuki Bandit 600 is on the list and would seem to tick all your boxes. it would allow you to do the test on your own bike which i believe would save you money on renting test bikes and extra lessons (to gain the needed confidence on a strange bike)

I found that for the test, there is a big difference between being able to drive a rented bike and being comfortable and confident enough on it to do all the things you need to do for the test.
Its much easier to test on your own bike if at all possible.

All the jap bikes are fairly reliable now

You're right! Its on the list! I didn't see it earlier. Thanks, maybe ill go for a bandit 600 cause I do live in Dublin and the deauville might be less ideal in city traffic? Any specific bandit 600 model year that are better or worse?

Pugzilla

I found the fazer 600 to be a far superior bike to the bandit. More power and much lighter.

mufflets2

Yep id go fazer, or bandit or honda hornet 600, all great reliable bikes and very good through traffic. and for spins at weekends
Look for condition over year

and learning even the very basics about bike mechanics is well worth the effort

MSVforever

mufflets2 wrote: »

Yep id go fazer, or bandit or honda hornet 600, all great reliable bikes and very good through traffic. and for spins at weekends
Look for condition over year

and learning even the very basics about bike mechanics is well worth the effort

Totally agree. I found the Honda Hornet the most fun bike tbh but it seems to be a pita to get it insured. Fazer was my second choice but I didn't go for it as the Bandit was more comfortable for me (I also like the more upright seating position). Deauville felt too bulky for me but I 'd say it would make a great touring bike.
I have the Bandit 600 from 2002 and would advise to get one from 2000 (model upgrade) upwards:

"
2000
The first major changes were made this year.

• New rear bodywork.
• Fully electronic instrumentation.
• New carburettors with throttle position sensor.
• Additional fuel filter.
• Nissin brake callipers.
• 20 litres (4.4 imp gal; 5.3 US gal) fuel tank (up from 19).
• Improvements to frame and steering geometry.
• Seat height lowered.
• S model: New modern styled half fairing, with twin headlights. (wikipedia)"

The Bandit is a great starter bike but can be a bit moody on a cold/wet morning which means that you have to leave the choke on for a few minutes until she is warm enough:D

Pugzilla

Bandit is a terrible bike. Horribly overweight and down on power compared to the hornet and fazer. ****e build quality too and every
c nt has one.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Gonna throw in the Honda CB400 Super Four. I've had mine over a year and still love it. Has been perfect as a first bike and if I sell it tomorrow I probably won't lose a cent.

AgileMyth

guitarmagic wrote: »

mufflets2 wrote: »

Just to say - I found it a lot easier to do the test on a bike I was used to and riding regularly than one that i rented for the test ( I did it twice)

yes, i figured. But I looked at the list ( http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Learner-Drivers/Motorcyclists/Driving-Test-Vehicles---Motorcycles/ ) and since I don't know anything about fixing stuff, and don't have any friends that do, I'm really looking for a "low-maintenance" shaft-drive like the deauville. Are there any alternatives that are also hold their re-sale value and are current on the irish marked?

Can't think of any other small capacity shaft drive bikes. BMW have a few belt drives which would be less maintenance than a chain.

My last bike was chain drive after a few years of shafties, never again. And I don't even live somewhere it rains.

MSVforever

Pugzilla wrote: »

Bandit is a terrible bike. Horribly overweight and down on power compared to the hornet and fazer. ****e build quality too and every
c nt has one.

Bollix. It's a grand bike, reliable (mine has already covered 81000 km) and fun to drive if you use the 4 cylinder powerband properly (over 6000 rpm):D.
It has less power than the hornet and fazer but it can still get you into trouble with the law.
All three are beginner bikes and therefore not unique i.e. common as muck.
This means parts are easily and cheap to come by:)
Imo it's the Honda Civic of the bikeworld (Deauville would be the Avensis...).

If you want pure fun and have a full wallet then get a cbr1000rr, Kawasaki ZX14R or a GSX1300R.....lol...

macplaxton

AgileMyth wrote: »

Can't think of any other small capacity shaft drive bikes. BMW have a few belt drives which would be less maintenance than a chain.

My last bike was chain drive after a few years of shafties, never again. And I don't even live somewhere it rains.

Ye olde Yamaha Townmate T80 had a shaft :pac::


Kawasaki GPZ305 was belt - snapped a new belt at 15k miles (so much for lasting 40-50k)

Suzuki SV650 - fitted with Scottoiler + touring reservoir behind number plate. Refill every 4k or so. 30k on original chain and only half the adjustment used. If I'd kept the bike, I reckon it would of reached 50k before changing.

macplaxton

CJhaughey wrote: »

Honda motorcycles from this era are some of the best finished bikes you'll ever see.
Paint is thick, fasteners are all plated well. and the engines in these V-twins last for a very long time.
I know of some with over 150k miles on them!
Little known fact, if you compare the frame dmensions on these bikes they ar very similar to the Honda NSR250 of the same era. They handle well in Naked form and even as a practical commuter with the extra weight they still handle well.
There are still decent Bikes that haven't been dispatched around if you look.

I agree about the finish and quality, but only of Japanese built Hondas. Their Brazilian built output wasn't nearly as good. Whilst the NTV had good strong engines, the gearboxes were clunky rubbish and can grenade.

I found them top-heavy. The Bros 650 with ally frame and chain drive was better for throwing around.

Don't get me wrong, I like Hondas, but a NTV600 Revere or NTV650 is going to be near or at least 20 years old and there is better stuff to get the job done these days.

CJhaughey

macplaxton wrote: »

I agree about the finish and quality, but only of Japanese built Hondas. Their Brazilian built output wasn't nearly as good. Whilst the NTV had good strong engines, the gearboxes were clunky rubbish and can grenade.

I found them top-heavy. The Bros 650 with ally frame and chain drive was better for throwing around.

Don't get me wrong, I like Hondas, but a NTV600 Revere or NTV650 is going to be near or at least 20 years old and there is better stuff to get the job done these days.

I guess if you look at it in those terms then the Revere/NTV are old but I wouldn't dismiss them purely on age.
Lots of bikes are minded well and stand the test of time.
The OP was looking for a simple practical bike that needs very little maintenance on a small budget.
The very first thing that any bike needs as ongoing maintenance (apart from oil/water) is chain and sprocket maintenance.
If you can remove that from the equation then that's a big chunk of maintenance gone right there.
Secondly not everyone likes I4 bikes, they are smooth and rev but can be characterless.
V-twins like the middleweight Suzuki and Honda are comfortable to ride with decent torque without having to rev the nuts off the thing hence their popularity.
I guess its down to the OP to decide what they want and how much they can afford and try out a few bikes to see what they like.
I still wouldn't discount a good older bike as a starter machine, when you add up gear and training and the chance it will go down the road then an older bike makes more sense.

MSVforever

CJhaughey wrote: »

...
I guess its down to the OP to decide what they want and how much they can afford and try out a few bikes to see what they like.
I still wouldn't discount a good older bike as a starter machine, when you add up gear and training and the chance it will go down the road then an older bike makes more sense.

Best advice! Everybody has different taste and associated costs can add up to far more than the bike itself.

Just an example for what I have paid so far (I still have a long shopping list which would include proper rain gear, winter gloves, 2nd pair of boots etc):

Theory Test = €45
Learner Permit = €35
IBT = €550

Textile Jacket and Pants = €300
L-Vest = €15
Gloves = €90
Boots = €180
Helmet = €180 online (was €380 in the place with the big windows I think)
Base Layers = €180
Kevlar Jeans = €115

Chain brush, chain cleaner, chain lube, visor cleaner, helmet foam spray, bike wash/polish stuff, engine oil etc. = €120

Bike = €2100
Tax = €88 (was included in bike purchase till April 2017)
Insurance = €400

This comes to a total of €4310 (excluding motor tax).

Make sure that the bike is serviced and doesn't need new sprockets/chain or even tires which could add on another couple of hundred yoyos:eek:

Motorbiking is great fun but doesn't come cheap. Thank god my wife hasn't tracked the costs so far;)

Pugzilla

MSVforever wrote: »

It has less power than the hornet and fazer but it can still get you into trouble with the law.

Bandit has 18 less hp and its dry weight is 29kg more than the Fazer. I've ridden both back to back and there's a big difference. I haven't owned either bike, so I can be more objective. Hornet has more performance again, but haven't ridden it.

MSVforever

Pugzilla wrote: »

Bandit has 18 less hp and its dry weight is 29kg more than the Fazer. I've ridden both back to back and there's a big difference. I haven't owned either bike, so I can be more objective. Hornet has more performance again, but haven't ridden it.

Me too. I have ridden all three and can confirm that the Hornet has the most power and bandit has the least of the three (but it's still not scrap metal).

However for a starter bike we are hair splitting here. I mean what difference does it really make for the OP to get from 0-100 in 3 or 4 seconds..... :rolleyes:

Pugzilla

MSVforever wrote: »

Me too. I have ridden all three and can confirm that the Hornet has the most power and bandit has the least of the three (but it's still not scrap metal).

However for a starter bike we are hair splitting here. I mean what difference does it really make for the OP to get from 0-100 in 3 or 4 seconds..... :rolleyes:

The issue is more to do with the weight than power. A lighter bikes builds confidence faster and slow maneuvers are easier.

guitarmagic

I'm getting a deauville guys... thanks for the feedback

listermint

mufflets2 wrote: »

Just to say - I found it a lot easier to do the test on a bike I was used to and riding regularly than one that i rented for the test ( I did it twice)

I did the test on a rental. I did it once.

It was the only time I did it as I passed.

My own bike isn't on the list which is ridiculous power to weight..