Primary online database

MountainAshIRL

Hi I know there was a previous thread on this but I was unable to find it, mods are more than welcome to merge it if they feel that's appropriate.

My child just started primary school and I've had this form home. I'm in two minds about what to do with it. I want to know if it's compulsory, how it's connected to online roll registration and any updates and the data protection and privacy issues. Has there been changes on the amount of time the data is held?

Thanks

lazygal

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057364466

MountainAshIRL

Unfortunately that thread doesn't really answer my questions. Is it compulsory?

vicwatson

No it's not. Advise the school you don't want your details given over.

Moonbeam

See mt last post on the other forum.
It is not compulsory .

Orion

It's most certainly not compulsory and until the DES change their retention policy I would refuse to provide the information. Also the school as a data controller cannot pass on your information without your express permission. To be certain write them informing them that you expressly deny that permission.

MountainAshIRL

Thanks for the reply Orion. I went in to talk to the school about it and I'm actually fuming. If I don't sign it makes it difficult for the school, funding for my child will not come through automatically they have to apply manually. He also won't be on the electronic role. I don't want to cause issues for the school and I feel by setting the pod up like this it's putting parents in a very uncomfortable situation.

Moonbeam

Ah well,they need to do it for plenty of other kids too.

Orion

MountainAshIRL wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Orion. I went in to talk to the school about it and I'm actually fuming. If I don't sign it makes it difficult for the school, funding for my child will not come through automatically they have to apply manually. He also won't be on the electronic role. I don't want to cause issues for the school and I feel by setting the pod up like this it's putting parents in a very uncomfortable situation.

That's completely untrue. The DES removed that criteria for funding - there is no threat to school funding parents exercise their right to privacy.

http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/2016/04/08/department-throws-in-the-towel-on-a-compulsory-pod/

"In advance of the beginning of the 2016/2017 academic year a circular will be issued with updated information on how POD will operate, including confirmation that partial records may still be created for any students whose parents have an objection to POD. The Department feels that allowing partial records to be created is a fair compromise for parents with such objections, as it protects the anonymity of the pupil while ensuring that school data is accurate for funding purposes. There is no risk of schools losing funding as a result of parents refusing consent to put their children’t data on POD."

So they will be on the roll - just with the personal information left blank.

If the school has a problem with the way the DES are operating this let them take it up with them. It's not your problem. Do not be bullied into providing information that they don't need and you don't want to give.

Sunny Dayz

MountainAshIRL wrote: »

Thanks for the reply Orion. I went in to talk to the school about it and I'm actually fuming. If I don't sign it makes it difficult for the school, funding for my child will not come through automatically they have to apply manually. He also won't be on the electronic role. I don't want to cause issues for the school and I feel by setting the pod up like this it's putting parents in a very uncomfortable situation.

As another poster said it's not true. The school staff were told to say this to force people into complying with it.
I stalled on completing the pod form when we got it. I found the note from the school very difficult to understand and I would have considered myself to have a good enough understanding of English. I rang the school about it and the secretary couldn't even explain it to me, just that they were given the forms and told to get them filled out, they were none the wiser. Most of the details the form was looking for was already supplied to the school on enrolment. So I didn't submit the form, I heard no more about it and promptly forgot all about it. Having seen this thread reminded me of it and that I haven't heard a peep from the school about it either.

MountainAshIRL

The school are very good and im not being bullied into anything, they are very understanding
They emailed to get information on the questions I had raised and they gave me a copy of this email. If I totally refuse to give any information then my child cannot be added to the electronic role. The school will also have to manually apply for funding for my child, this is a pain for them it's a small school and they have enough to do so I don't want to make extra work for them but I also want to protect my child's privacy. I can consent to basic information being added to the pod and the school will automatically receive funding and be added to the electronic role. But this information can still be held for up to 30 years

And I have to write a letter stating why I am refusing consent. What have other people put in this letter?

Orion

MountainAshIRL wrote: »

If I totally refuse to give any information then my child cannot be added to the electronic role. The school will also have to manually apply for funding for my child,

That is not true. They can put in a partial record. There is no threat to funding. What's happened here is that the DES probably haven't circulated that info so schools are still operating under previous "rules".

Here's a sample letter:
http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/2016/06/15/sample-letter-to-refuse-permission-for-a-childs-data-to-be-transferred-into-pod/

MountainAshIRL

Yes they can put in a partial record but what I said was if I refuse completely

Orion

The child's name and PPS is a partial record. That's all the need to put in. Schools have always had the requirement to put in those details anyway.

soc

We refused to submit our children's information, and wrote a detailed letter with reasons behind our objection to it. School is just scaremongering

byhookorbycrook

Is it compulsory to include my child on POD ?

All pupils must have a record on POD in order to be counted for school’s capitation payment and teacher allocation purposes.

Does the school need my consent to put my child’s details on POD ?
The Department has consulted with the Data Protection Commissioner in relation to the collection of individual pupil information for the Primary Online Database. As both religion and ethnic and cultural background are considered sensitive personal data categories under Data protection legislation, it is necessary for each individual pupil’s parent/guardian to identify their own religion and ethnic or cultural background, and to consent for this information to be transferred to the Department of Education and Skills.

All other information held on POD is deemed to be non-sensitive personal data and therefore does not require written permission from parents for the information to be transferred to the Department.

https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Primary-Online-Database-POD-/POD-Information-for-Parents.pdf

Orion

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Is it compulsory to include my child on POD ?

All pupils must have a record on POD in order to be counted for school’s capitation payment and teacher allocation purposes.

Does the school need my consent to put my child’s details on POD ?
The Department has consulted with the Data Protection Commissioner in relation to the collection of individual pupil information for the Primary Online Database. As both religion and ethnic and cultural background are considered sensitive personal data categories under Data protection legislation, it is necessary for each individual pupil’s parent/guardian to identify their own religion and ethnic or cultural background, and to consent for this information to be transferred to the Department of Education and Skills.

All other information held on POD is deemed to be non-sensitive personal data and therefore does not require written permission from parents for the information to be transferred to the Department.

https://www.education.ie/en/Publications/Statistics/Primary-Online-Database-POD-/POD-Information-for-Parents.pdf

That's all changed. Parents can refuse to provide this info and there is no threat to capitation. Name and PPS is all that's required now ml. See my link earlier to the details of the circular that was supposed to be sent to schools.

byhookorbycrook

Not so sure it has changed. The October census form mentioned something about incomplete returns.

Orion

Circular Number: 0037/2016

The Department is satisfied that the information in the Fair Processing Notice will provide
clarity and reassurance to any parents who may have concerns. However, in the very small
minority of cases where, despite all efforts by schools and the clarifications provided by the
Department, the parent/guardian of a pupil still very strongly objects to the onward provision
of data to POD, the Department recognises that a practical arrangement must be made in
order to ensure that schools are not adversely affected and that a record can be made for all
pupils on POD. Therefore, for these cases the following arrangements will apply:
a. Parents/guardians who continue to object to the onward provision of data to POD need to
put their objections in writing to the school in order for their wishes to be carried out. Note
that verbal objections will not be sufficient in this regard, as schools will be required by
the Department to maintain written records of objections. Parents/guardians who object
should be given every opportunity to provide their objections in writing to the school. *
b. Schools that are in receipt of a letter from a parent/guardian outlining their objections to
the onward provision of data to POD can create a partial record for that pupil on POD,
using the guidelines available on request from the POD Helpdesk. This will ensure that a
record is created for the pupil which will be counted for grant payments and teacher
allocation purposes. In these cases, schools will be required to have a corresponding
letter from that pupil’s parent/guardian objecting to the transfer of certain data available
on file in the school. These records must be available for future inspection on request by
the Department’s Inspectorate

And sample letter at http://www.tuppenceworth.ie/blog/2016/06/15/sample-letter-to-refuse-permission-for-a-childs-data-to-be-transferred-into-pod/